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Old 25th October 2012, 10:27   #1
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Default Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Source: http://www.marutigypsy.com/

Gypsy's length is 4010mm, and engine is 1298cc G-series. Why can't Maruti make it under 4m (by just redesigning the bumper to reduce 1cm), and plonk the 1196cc G-series (modified for Eeco) or 1.2L K-series Petrol engine, and 1.3L Miltijet Diesel to avail tax exemptions, and price it competitively?

Now, it is priced upwards of 5.5L for the soft-top variant! I wonder, why on earth this car costs that much!
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Old 25th October 2012, 10:55   #2
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Interesting, i never paid attention to the length aspect of Gypsy
Automobile manufacturers across the world are betting on compact SUV market in india and Maruti had this Gem decades ago. but it continues to be neglected.

It surely needs a makeover(a lot in fact) and as you mentioned, new engine options and a sub 4 m length.
If they manage to do this at even current prices, MSL can keep the excise benefits for their increased profit margin

On the other hand, looks like suzuki is betting heavy on bunch of compact SUV designs till 2016, so i am sure they have taken this aspect seriously.

Last edited by rajshenoy : 25th October 2012 at 10:56.
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Old 25th October 2012, 10:59   #3
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Interesting point. I believe the version before Gypsy king was under 4m length They could have continued that. On the other hand as they are coming up with Gypsy with multijet, they might take care of this.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:16   #4
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Why can't Maruti make it under 4m (by just redesigning the bumper to reduce 1cm), and plonk the 1196cc G-series (modified for Eeco) or 1.2L K-series Petrol engine, and 1.3L Miltijet Diesel to avail tax exemptions, and price it competitively?
The Gypsy is only in production because of Defence / Government Orders. The number of private owners is minuscule. What's the point of the entire engineering exercise involved with a 1.2L transplant, when the 1.3L meets the Army's needs just fine? It's not like sub-4 meter excise benefits would make a difference to them either. Then, an engine change would mean that the Gypsy has to undergo defence testing all over again.

Due to its unique body style, the Gypsy will never be a mass market vehicle. That's probably why Maruti hasn't bothered with a diesel engine at all. The company is rightly focussing on more important products.

Last edited by GTO : 25th October 2012 at 11:19.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:25   #5
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Good point. It could easily have been modified into a compact SUV (a real SUV!). I am not sure if Maruti has any other plans for the segment.
Refinement and safety could be a issue and would have to spend a lot on re-design.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:31   #6
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Maruthi can take this oppurtunity and re design gypsy .
They can add a diesel engine from fiat , power steering , AC , ABS , air bags would be most welcome .
They can improve some comfort levels and target it at the civilian market as well.
A really improved gypsy can give THAR a run for its money.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:45   #7
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Quote:
A really improved gypsy can give THAR a run for its money.
Could it? Maruti won't cut the price of the petrol on which it has F-A-T profit margins, just to accommodate a well priced diesel.

The Gypsy petrol retails for 6.5 lakhs on the road in Mumbai, while the Thar goes for 7.8 lakhs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by girimajiananth View Post
They can add a diesel engine from fiat
1,00,000 premium

Quote:
power steering
20,000

Quote:
AC
30,000

Quote:
ABS , air bags
50,000 minimum.

Throw in a hard-top for 50,000.

Who would buy a basic Gypsy for 9 lakhs on the road which is basically a 25 year old design with 2 doors and a bone-jarring ride? Most potentials would simply buy the more substantial Scorpio, Safari, Xylo & Grande MKII instead!
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:46   #8
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

I think the main market is Bharat Sarkar. The least price sensitive segment, there is. So it is money out of one pocket, and into the other.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:49   #9
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

The Gypsy is not known for its mass market appeal unlike other vehicles from its own stable, even today if you book a Gypsy there is a good 3 month waiting period since they make the vehicle only on order basis.

to avoid paying high amount for the vehicle i would rather pick up an ex army gypsy for a lesser amount and do it up as per my liking and my color options.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:51   #10
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The number of private owners is minuscule.
...
Due to its unique body style, the Gypsy will never be a mass market vehicle.
A reason for this small number is its steep price tag for the very basic features. I agree with you that the design may not appeal many. But there are people who admire Gypsy for its ruggedness, and would prefer a Gypsy over a hatch / UV, if it was affordable.

BTW, did they make the 1.3L G-series engine BS IV compliant, to sell it to Govt departments in metros or cities where this norm is mandatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The Gypsy petrol retails for 6.5 lakhs on the road in Mumbai, while the Thar goes for 7.8 lakhs.
...
Who would buy a basic Gypsy for 9 lakhs on the road which is basically a 25 year old design with 2 doors and a bone-jarring ride?
IMO, the current Gypsy can be priced at 4.5L on-road Mumbai, for the features it possesses! So, after throwing in all these stuffs less the tax benefit of around 50K, the car can be priced around 6.5L!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Most potentials would simply buy the more substantial Scorpio, Safari, Xylo & Grande MKII instead!
Agreed, but still a Gypsy is a Gypsy. None of the above vehicles can give the feeling of what Gypsy gives to me!

Last edited by romeomidhun : 25th October 2012 at 12:12.
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Old 25th October 2012, 11:57   #11
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Could it? Maruti won't cut the price of the petrol on which it has F-A-T profit margins, just to accommodate a well priced diesel.

The Gypsy petrol retails for 6.5 lakhs on the road in Mumbai, while the Thar goes for 7.8 lakhs.



Who would buy a basic Gypsy for 9 lakhs on the road which is basically a 25 year old design with 2 doors and a bone-jarring ride? Most potentials would simply buy the more substantial Scorpio, Safari, Xylo & Grande MKII instead!
Agreed that it will cost more , but dont you think gypsy is a lot cooler than Grande MKII or safari ? If Mahindra can put a bang on price for their cars , so can Maruthi .

The ride is very harsh , is there no way that maruthi can improve it to a better standard ?
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Old 25th October 2012, 12:40   #12
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

The Thar is a good seller, along with the Bolero in rural areas where shifting stuff and people, overloading in both cases, has to be done economically. The petrol Gypsy is a dud in both cases, offroading ability apart, its a pretty useless vehicle when you take running costs into consideration.

All the Gypsy owners I know have chucked it in favour of the Invader or Thar. A Gypsy just wont sell in rural areas, petrol and Maruti work against it in fact. Mahindra hasn't bothered to make the Bolero attractive to the urban buyer and it sells in huge volumes, Maruti has decided its market and have wisely decided not to bother about a new variant that will hardly sell.
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Old 25th October 2012, 12:44   #13
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Installing the Fiat MJD in the Gypsy may not feasible as the transfer case for 4x4 is not compatible with the MJD engine. (The same reason why RIO does not and cannot have a 4x4 variant).
Thus a 2-wheel drive Gypsy, will not be viable as it will not meet the Indian Armed Forces performance and gradeability requirements.
Incidentally Maruti tried to dieselise the Gypsy , way back in the late 90's , with the Peugeot TUD-5 and had faced similar hurdles.

Secondly: Costs of reworking the suspension , interiors, sheet metal modifications (for a 5-door) , creature comforts - will require investments of several hundreds of crores and the trade-off between investment and potential sales will be hard to justify.

Thirdly: The XA-ALpha Concept (displayed at Auto Expo) is at an advanced stage of development. This will have a modern platform, parts commonality with its SWIFT cousins to keep costs in check, 4-wheel drive option and the MJD in 90Ps (SX4/Ertiga) guise.
Also rumours suggest that XA-ALpha pricing will be around 8.5-9 lakhs (depends where Ford prices the EcoSport) , for a brand new product.
Almost the same amount of money had the existing Gypsy been extensively modified.

Yes - ONE option for Maruti is there and it can be potentially lucrative.
If they want to put the MJD in the existing Gypsy, retain 2-wheel drive and convert it into a 1-tonne/1.2 Ton Pickup and position it as a competitor to the existing band of ACE's, Super ACE's, Maxximo's, Bolero Pickup's, Dost's etc , etc.
The Gypsy already has a tough ladder frame, simple but robust leaf spring suspension (which is loved by the CV owning guys as they can go on adding "spring-patti's" to overload, the Gypsy can withstand extreme levels of abuse (just ask Messrs Hari Singh , Farad Bhathena etc) and may, just may prove to be a serious headache for the existing motley band of SCV's.

But such a strategy, I guess, will mean a totally different Business Unit , a CV business unit which has to be setup which am sure will need Big Man Suzuki's nod
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Old 25th October 2012, 14:26   #14
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The petrol Gypsy is a dud in both cases, offroading ability apart, its a pretty useless vehicle when you take running costs into consideration.
A 1.2L Petrol or the 1.3L Diesel engine will solve the running cost issue, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjab View Post
The XA-ALpha Concept (displayed at Auto Expo) is at an advanced stage of development. This will have a modern platform, parts commonality with its SWIFT cousins to keep costs in check, 4-wheel drive option and the MJD in 90Ps (SX4/Ertiga) guise.
Also rumours suggest that XA-ALpha pricing will be around 8.5-9 lakhs (depends where Ford prices the EcoSport) , for a brand new product.
If true, 8.5L for the base variant for the XA-Alpha will be too much on the higher side, IMO. If it is an under 4m car with 1.2L Petrol engine, it should be priced around 6L for the base variant. Or if it is >4m in length and uses the 1.4 / 1.6 L engine, it should be around 7L.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 25th October 2012 at 14:32.
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Old 25th October 2012, 14:35   #15
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Default Re: Why can't Maruti make Gypsy under 4m for tax exemptions?

Gypsy had been sold as a pickup truck earlier. However there was no market for a petrol pickup truck and the appeal was for the limited market that needed petrol engined 4-wheel-drive pickups, as in the high altitude, but then the price wasn't very affordable, so it died a natural death. Probably a diesel can revive that, going by how many Max 4wd Pickups sell in the hills. A 1.2 liter g-series and pruning of the bumpers will definitely bring the prices down and make the existing Gypsy a bit more affordable, but will just that price reduction increase sales much? Or whoever wants to buy the Gypsy might not mind paying the little bit extra they are having to shell out now.
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