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Old 23rd December 2012, 19:08   #61
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Default Re: Compact SUV from TATA

They should definetly name it the Sierra.
My two cents:
They should retain that huge rear window from B to D pllar, but they should disguise a new rear door and a C pillar in that design. Say the handle of the rear door should be a la Chevy Beat rear door.
I have some concept sketches in mind.
Will upload over this week if the general people like.
Starting from front the front door should be integrated with the windshield like a wrap around concept, say, Fabia, Yeti etc, then the trademark big window with the rear door and pillar behind the shiny plexi glass or poly carbonate.

And off course the 1.3 MJD with VGT.

And better quality and some smooth styling, no boxy things.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 19:41   #62
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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Nice move from Tata's.

But, why again the same Indica platform. They could improvise the Sierra platform if required.
Wasn't Sierra a body-on-frame car? In this age, efficiency is everything when it comes to compact UVs. Tata would need its compact UV to weigh less and be FWD. Hence, monocoque chassis.

The X1 platform was designed to be flexible anyways.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 19:47   #63
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And forgot to add 1 more fact..

TATA is actually working on 2 vehicles, 1 is a compact SUV and the other an MUV. Seating configuration is not yet confirmed but will be either a very spacious 5 seater with loads of luggage space and another 7 seater people mover configuration.

Looks like Mr. Sym is burning midnight oil to churn new models from the TATA stable.

Let's hope for the best possible outcome and if trends are to go by ARIA LX pure variant will definitely have some yellow board buyers a it's cheaper than the Innova!

OT: Why does Toyota charge so much for it's brand name?
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Old 23rd December 2012, 20:06   #64
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This is something that tata desperately needs. Both the nano and the aria have been flops in terms of sales. Sale of both the indica and the manza are on the fall. Tata will have to develop and put on sale a mini SUV which should be absolutely niggle free, asap. Tata have to find an apt engine for the car. I dont feel the multijet is powerful enough to make an strong impression. Pricing of the car must be reasonably priced unlike the aria.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 20:37   #65
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If we take this news along with a comment by Mr. DB on the Storme thread then the vehicle is already on the road for testing.

This kind of vehicle is of course the need of the hour for TaMo, but the question is how soon can it go to production? I hope the development will be quicker since the platform already exists.

I agree with @scuderiamania about the engine. May be a 1.5L version of the VariCor producing about 110BHP.

Last edited by safari_lover : 23rd December 2012 at 20:39.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 21:00   #66
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Default Re: Compact SUV from TATA

In one of the autocar magazine and the show Hormazd mentioned about two things A mini Aria and a Mini Sumo / gold.

Mini Aria is shelved. So, I would bet my money on this being a Mini Sumo.



I hate this personally. Sumo is positioned as an MUV but Sumo Mini to be positioned as a SUV. This is same as what Mahindra did to Xylo MUV vs Quanto SUV
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Old 23rd December 2012, 21:30   #67
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Default Re: Compact SUV from TATA

Whatever may be the outcome, I mean chopped Sumo or Aria, I hope it doesn't carry forward Tata's trademark x'mas tree lights!!

My personal opinion, Tata should have launched all new Safari (new exteriors too!) and could have chopped the current Safari to create 'Mini SUV'.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 21:59   #68
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So all new compact monocoque SUV and an MUV from Tata Motors? From what I understand, these are all new products and different from the chopped Sumo and Aria, being discussed elsewhere.

I really hope the new products don't look like the Vista / Manza twins.

Tata desperately, I repeat, desperately needs a new design language for its UVs.

My wishlist:
- New Design language. They should look a million bucks. Hoping looks won't be compromised for space, length restrictions.
- Interiors, fit and finish should be at par, if not better, with the competition, right from the start. No upgrades years down the line.
- Light weight. Being monocoque, that problem shouldn't crop up in this case. But even the Vista / Manzas are on the heavier side, hoping weight would be watched from the beginning.
- There aren't be any commercial siblings of the Compact SUV / MUV. That, due to obvious reasons, does make money for Tata, but spoils the image / brand value of the product for good.

All this might be asking for too much. But, I am hoping they now have understood that they will have to do a lot lot better if they aspire to become the number two in the country.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 22:15   #69
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I believe GTO broke the suspense on the compact SUV looooong time back! He also said the news was from a reliable birdie and the vehicle was in the design phase (that time). He shared that the car will be based on the Manza platform too!

I really don't know why people still hold on to the mini Aria / Sumo speculation inspite of the above scoop. And the current scenario calls for a lightweight, efficient, monocoque, compact SUV (with excise benefits) & why would TATA do something other than this?!

+Ns to multiple posts, for God's sake, please don't bring in those Indica traces or even the tag! Please work on some good branding for this car which is totally new & will suit a SUV!

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
If we take this news along with a comment by Mr. DB on the Storme thread then the vehicle is already on the road for testing....
Ahh.. there you go!! Thanks for reminding, could be very well this thing!

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 23rd December 2012 at 22:26.
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:16   #70
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Default Re: Compact SUV from TATA

A report by Reuters also talks about the mini-SUV that Tata is working on. Some interesting points from the report and I quote,

Quote:
"We have done something very innovative that will allow us to respond more positively," said Tim Leverton, Tata Motors' head of research and development. "You'll see, over the next 12-18 months onwards, a fireworks of output."
Quote:
"The company is in a transitionary phase," said Leverton, a former R&D head at BMW with more than 30 years experience in the industry. "The nature of what we have got to do over the next five years in really coming to global standards in passenger cars is a reflection of what has been happening in commercial vehicles."
There are signs of green shoots, however. Leverton's 5,500-strong team, with additional R&D centres in Warwick, U.K. and Turin, Italy, produced Tata's first in-house designed concept cars, the Pixel and MegaPixel compact city vehicles.
Quote:
Tata will pour more than 75 billion rupees into the passenger vehicle business over the next five years. Less than 30 percent of that has been earmarked for facilities or upgrading hardware, leaving the rest for new products.
Quote:
Tata hopes a new Nano, which runs on diesel - a popular fuel thanks to government subsidies - will rekindle excitement in a car many thought would revolutionise mass transport.
"It's in the pipeline," said Leverton, who declined to give a launch date. "In terms of the technical challenges involved, we've addressed them ... You can judge what's happened so far on Nano, but we haven't finished with it yet."

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...unit/200421/on

Last edited by safari_lover : 24th December 2012 at 09:20.
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:27   #71
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Default Re: Compact SUV from TATA

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
In one of the autocar magazine and the show Hormazd mentioned about two things A mini Aria and a Mini Sumo / gold.

Mini Aria is shelved. So, I would bet my money on this being a Mini Sumo.
Mini Sumo ? Are they making a Spongebob squarepants on wheels for kids ?

Looks like Recent success of Duster and Ertiga has proved that Indians love bigger yet fuel efficient vehicles !! But isnt that obvious already ?

First it was day of diesels(everyone wanted a diesel and honda was staring at doomsday) and now less than 1.5 ltr MUV/SUV.

This is an area where big players can pitch their best selling models from Brazil or south east asia. but still we are seeing announcements which are still in drawing board.

Kudos to Mahindra in launching Quanto, though delayed it still felt they were right with market prediction couple of years back.

Tata executives needs . they have been working like a public sector org.
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Old 24th December 2012, 11:56   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
Just in case if you do not know, Indica and Vista platforms are altogether different. Vista and Manza share common platform known as X1.
How could the platform be different when both the cars look the same. the space is same the frame is almost same. Agreed that there will be minor changes in the body according to the changing requirements.

May be i need to digg deeper into both of these cars internals.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:48   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
How could the platform be different when both the cars look the same. the space is same the frame is almost same. Agreed that there will be minor changes in the body according to the changing requirements.
Thats where many people go wrong! The Vista and Manza are completely new products made from ground up. And they have a more advanced and stiffer platform as against the relatively weaker and ultrarian chassis of the older Indica and Indigo.

TATA made a blunder when they made the Vista look very similar to the Indica, but apart from the looks, nothing big is common between the two cars.
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Old 24th December 2012, 15:32   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
TATA made a blunder when they made the Vista look very similar to the Indica, but apart from the looks, nothing big is common between the two cars.
Tata are known for making such obvious blunders, for reasons best known to them. Take the Storme, for instance. To the layman, it is merely a facelifted Safari. They missed a golden opportunity by fixing the more-than-a-decade old Safari body on the newer Aria chassis. And they are still tinkering around with the equally old Indica/Indigo chassis by testing an "all-new" Indica XL. Will they discontinue the regular Indica/go variants for private customers and sell only basic Indica/go XLs for the taxi guys once it's out? Unlikely, if one goes by their past record.

I could be proved wrong if Mr. Slym has the final say, for he is a guy who knows the pulse of the market. It remains to be seen if he can change the lackadaisical, outdated mindset and attitude that have gripped the company at all levels. Change at the top alone is not enough for TM, but it's a beginning nevertheless. The mini Aria on a Vista/Manza chassis sporting the 90 PS Quadrajet is the correct approach to launch a new hot product at a very short notice. Mini Sumo/Grande? Let them not even think about such a thing!

Even the taxi fleet operators are steadily and briskly walking away from TM. I was very surprised to see far more Toyota taxis (Etios, Liva, Innova and the older Qualis) dropping/picking up passengers at the Chennai airport than Tata ones. The Mahindras (Logan/Verito and Xylo) have caught up with Tata and even Ford (Classic, Figo and the older Ikon), Chevrolet (Tavera) and Maruti Suzuki (Dzire Tour, Eeco, Omni and possibly Ertiga) are rapidly catching up. Earlier, the taxi fleets (not black-and-yellow) were a solid Tata bastion. Now, Toyota seems to be the undisputed No.1 in this segment, and Tata's share is shrinking fast as other manufacturers are cutting up and gobbling down a pie which was once Tata's very own. With Nissan, Ashok Leyland and Chevrolet looking for a big bite with just launched/upcoming products, things are going to get much worse for Tata.

Karl Slym's current post is bound to be the most challenging and difficult one he has ever held. Good luck to him!

Last edited by RSR : 24th December 2012 at 15:56.
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Old 24th December 2012, 20:12   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
How could the platform be different when both the cars look the same. the space is same the frame is almost same. Agreed that there will be minor changes in the body according to the changing requirements.

May be i need to digg deeper into both of these cars internals.
This is where tata made a mistake. Vista and Indica does not have single common part. Just look down you will realize that suspension is also different. Old indica has all independent suspension setup whereas new X1 does not have.

Not only common people but technical people also think that Vista and Indica is same car. One of my friend who works in Mahindra for bolero parts sourcing said this same thing. I stopped arguing with him when he said Bolero is superior to Safari in terms of handling and ride quality. I simply smiled and changed topic.

Tata is never known for things right at first time

1) In case of Vista look was not the problem, it is still fairly good looking car but indica branding and central console were the deal breakers.

2) Manza would have done good numbers with little better front end. Tata still has a chance with new design which is ready with them as a Manza Hybrid showcased in Auto Expo 2012.

3) Storme is altogether missed opportunity.

4) Same case is with Sumo Grande, the sumo branding kept personal buyers away.

5) Aria is suffering due to tata's obsession or rather emotional attachment with Indica. Smiley Grill and Happy face is the reason for today's cry. Indica was the reason for Tata's rise and fall.

Hope everything will change under the new leadership.
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