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Old 1st November 2012, 12:43   #16
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

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Originally Posted by vikrantj View Post
I am sorry but I fail to understand one thing. Before Tata bought JLR it was in red and in about 3 years or so it is in profits with smash hits all over the world. So who should teach whom about car market ... JLR or Tatas .
I am sure it must be the same workforce churning out the cars at JLR pre and post takeover.
I agree bro. Tata was really lucky. As soon as JLR was bought from Ford, their good times r returned. Sales have improved a lot and profits as well.
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Old 1st November 2012, 12:44   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikrantj
I am sorry but I fail to understand one thing. Before Tata bought JLR it was in red and in about 3 years or so it is in profits with smash hits all over the world. So who should teach whom about car market ... JLR or Tatas .
I am sure it must be the same workforce churning out the cars at JLR pre and post takeover.
Tata bought JLR and gave the engineers and designers a free run.The talent was there but higher management wanted JLR to do things their way. Tata just let the JLR DNA be free of shackles.

Tata motors India will need new quality management guys and complete revamp of prevailing processes. Something not easily done due to corporate politics and people being just good enough not to get fired 'chalta hai attitude '!!
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Old 1st November 2012, 13:07   #18
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

Putting JLR in charge of Tata Motors is like a double edged sword. It will reduce the premiumness of Brand JLR, but will surely catapult Brand Tata Motors into premium segments.
They would do well if they can come up with a sub brand backed by JLR R&D, new designs and competitive pricing. For starters, if they can borrow AT Transmission technology from JLR and fit it into their diesel hatch - Indica/Vista, or even diesel Indigo, they would have a winner at hand instantly.
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Old 1st November 2012, 14:24   #19
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

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Originally Posted by chennai-indian View Post
IMHO, there is nothing inherently wrong with Tata motor designs - especially for the price point that they are selling at. What they need to improve are 3 things - Quality, Show room buying experience and A.S.S
My car was bought from the showroom without me even entering the showroom, everything done at home, car arranged for a TD at home, delibvery at home. My experience at Tata A** is nothing short of my experience at Maruti showrooms. Mind you, mine is a Nano.

If you ask me which dealer I should recommend in Mumbai, It's Wasan TATA for me. Balaji simply doesnt offer TD (right from Nano to Aria).

Regarding the Service, my experience tells me the following:

Sit in a Tata A** and you'll observe this instantly:
  • A large number of cabbies coming in for a service "without the appointment" and yelling at the SA/Receptionist for not taking their car.
  • Ill-maintained cars and then coming to the SA and yelling at him for not fixing the car last time.
  • Not talking politely to TATA SA is very common at Tata A**. You give respect and you earn respect. The same guy would be more willing to do a lot more if you request him politely than ordering him. Works for me.
Last but not the least; TATA cars are built cheap, but they can last long provided me take care of them. Remember, TATA is one of the strongest names that is associated with Trust/Quality.

As they say, Desh tab jaagega, jab aap jaagoge. Jaago Re!

PS: I am an owner of 2012 Nano and above post is a reflection of my exp at TATA showroom/A**. Any person not having an experience like that of mine is purely his luck.

PPS: I don't have any Tata stocks
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Old 1st November 2012, 17:07   #20
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

JLR technology could already be there in the Tata cars. But, these Tata cars dont sell because of poor serviceability of their cars.

Could it be that they got the technology blueprint right, but dont have the man power to service and maintain it?
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Old 1st November 2012, 17:58   #21
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

I wonder if tata's strategic talent has been diverted to JLR already (while letting JLR do the tactical and operational), leaving its own indian operations to itself, and that's the reason why they're floundering.
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Old 1st November 2012, 23:14   #22
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

Look guys I feel that TATA is going through a lean phase right now and will bounce back with a bang
compared to world beaters like Honda, Toyota and GM whose hatches do not match the sales of the Indica twins
as they say "Ghar ki murgi dal barabar"
we consider TATA motors as our own and are not satisfied with their promising show against rivals who have been in this field for a long time
it would be a step backward if JLR who do not have a clue about our market conditons and our choices are given the upper hand
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Old 1st November 2012, 23:29   #23
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

JLR does not operate in the market segments that Tata does so it cannot be taken for granted they will somehow succeed more than Tata. Tata could also make a premium car but they have never addressed that market.

The problem with Tata IMHO is not technology or capability but poor execution, lethargy and possibly management issues.

Good planning, timely model updates and newer models would have seen them in a completely different position today, but they can do that now see the results 5 years down the line. And they can definitely leverage JLR tech and design provided its cost effective in the segments Tata addresses.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 00:35   #24
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

TATA needs to first get out the "itne paisa me itnaich!" (translated poorly, this is all your little monies can buy) attitude. All the want to sell is a car, not an experience. You can't sell a gimmick you should sell a value and value and price are different things. I have owned an Indica for years, its a fantastic car, was faithful to me on all roads in south India under all weather conditions. But, I did not return to TATA for the next buy, simply because I could afford better. Now, that is where TATA has lost to value. All their cars have utilitarian value, something that you want only when you are not able to afford better. That is the fix they are in. Mahindra was able to break this cruse with the XUV. Has anyone bought an XUV because of its utilitarian value? Well, there is a segment of customer who buy cars of the sheer want of 4 wheels, that is the segment that TATA has and is still selling for. Their Aria was a slight departure, but the underpinnings of utility was still there. Feel, ergonomics (not to confuse with just lots of space), design and attention to detail is where they need to focus. But before that they need to know when to stop beating a dead horse for branding. Why wouldn't the Vista be just called a Vista, but they had to call it Indica Vista! So much that the name would really draw lots, on the contrary it killed the Vista's urban feeling. They need to reshape the Manza, the Vista.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 10:28   #25
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

@ man_and_machine

I'd agree with your comment about having alternative up-grades from each of their products. For some reason their brand guys would like 'continuity' in a way they are being honest i guess , while other manufacturers mask the underpinnings - like they say originality lies in concealing the origins!

What the Tata's are good at is offering a smart package - space for a price - living upto their first slogan - more car per car

And also they seem to believe in evolution of their products than a revolution or a clean break. They attempted a break-away from their earlier VFM premise with the ARIA, but then the expectation from the market was that it was priced high - TATAs are trapped in their positioning. Probably they could create a new division as Toyota did with Lexus, if they wanted luxury as a story, and after every new avatar of the luxe they could introduce the features in their regular cars.

Whatever, it is time Tatas woke up and fought back for their legitimate share of each of the segments they created.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 10:53   #26
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

JLR has recovered thanks to TATA (even in their own markets) so lets appreciate the management abilities of TATA. JLR was on sales and mounting losses for some reason prior to the acquisition and even in adverse market conditions TATA has managed to bring about a turnaround.

JLR would be clueless in India.

Lets give TATA another couple of years a major change seems headed our way and it is about time.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 11:24   #27
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

While I agree with whatever has been said about JLR turnaround by Tata etc, but I firmly believe good management cannot succeed without good products. Without a fab product like XJ, I don't think the turn around would have been so...

To turnaround TML, Tata first needs good products. I am sorry to say this but none of their products propose to be exciting to the car buying public at large. The product portfolio of TML looks dreary. And on top of this TML is known or perceived or proven to be the worst offender for churning out bad quality products.

Last edited by rrsteer : 2nd November 2012 at 11:25.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 11:28   #28
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

Guys, we must understand two things here.
1. Even though TaMo acquired JLR, it is not a merged entity. For all practical purposes they are two separate companies. And by two separate companies I mean everything, both the companies independently do their business planning, selling and everything in between. So saying let JLR run TaMo is almost akin to saying let Maruti run TaMo (but for ownership).
2. Running companies of the scale of TaMo or JLR is an extremely complex job. So it is not as easy as swapping few people. TaMo an JLR are as different as chalk and cheese when it comes to their operations. TaMo makes most of its money in India selling low end cars and commercial vehicles while JLR is a super premium brand. Their approach to doing business is different. It is a widely acknowledged fact that JLRs success is mainly due to freedom given to run independently and financial support provided by Tata in tough times.

So letting JLR run TaMo is not even an option.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 13:26   #29
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

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Originally Posted by amtak View Post
My car was bought from the showroom without me even entering the showroom, everything done at home, car arranged for a TD at home, delibvery at home. My experience at Tata A** is nothing short of my experience at Maruti showrooms. Mind you, mine is a Nano.

If you ask me which dealer I should recommend in Mumbai, It's Wasan TATA for me. Balaji simply doesnt offer TD (right from Nano to Aria).

Regarding the Service, my experience tells me the following:

Sit in a Tata A** and you'll observe this instantly:
  • A large number of cabbies coming in for a service "without the appointment" and yelling at the SA/Receptionist for not taking their car.
  • Ill-maintained cars and then coming to the SA and yelling at him for not fixing the car last time.
  • Not talking politely to TATA SA is very common at Tata A**. You give respect and you earn respect. The same guy would be more willing to do a lot more if you request him politely than ordering him. Works for me.
Last but not the least; TATA cars are built cheap, but they can last long provided me take care of them. Remember, TATA is one of the strongest names that is associated with Trust/Quality.

As they say, Desh tab jaagega, jab aap jaagoge. Jaago Re!

PS: I am an owner of 2012 Nano and above post is a reflection of my exp at TATA showroom/A**. Any person not having an experience like that of mine is purely his luck.

PPS: I don't have any Tata stocks
Dude.. yours is a 2012 Nano.
I have been visiting Tata service since 2006. I know much better than what you know.

I can say for sure that "There are few good people and who work very well. They will fix all the problems on request and when spoken polietly. I Agree with this"

But most of the service peoples Attitude towards cars and customers is bad. I dont say that, this is the case with all tata service stations, but most of the them would fall in this category.

When you buy a KG of rice/dal and if you see 15% of the contents are stones, what would you say? Rice/dal that you bought is good as 85% of stuff is good. Right? The same is the case over here. When a customer pays, he expects the work to be done as per statndards.

As you said, The name "Tata" is tightly coupled with Trust, Quality and Reliability. Agreed. But somehow, this statement is loosing its value.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 14:55   #30
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Default Re: Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Dude.. yours is a 2012 Nano.
I have been visiting Tata service since 2006. I know much better than what you know.

I can say for sure that "There are few good people and who work very well. They will fix all the problems on request and when spoken polietly. I Agree with this"

But most of the service peoples Attitude towards cars and customers is bad. I dont say that, this is the case with all tata service stations, but most of the them would fall in this category.

When you buy a KG of rice/dal and if you see 15% of the contents are stones, what would you say? Rice/dal that you bought is good as 85% of stuff is good. Right? The same is the case over here. When a customer pays, he expects the work to be done as per statndards.

As you said, The name "Tata" is tightly coupled with Trust, Quality and Reliability. Agreed. But somehow, this statement is loosing its value.
Agreed and respect your views. You may be having more experience w.r.t TATA since you are visiting since 2006. I don't know what model you have but there would be something that makes you stick around with TATA?

Tata has to invest heavily in the QC and finesse of its cars. I drive a Nano but may not buy another TATA cars as the finesse present in Japs is missing here.
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