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Old 2nd November 2012, 19:21   #76
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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We got to find the other 3 . Two landed up in Bihar (both are 4X4 Elegance in silver) and one at your locality.


Discounting Skoda horror stories which are exaggerated (save for Harish's case) I feel Yeti is a very capable Car and in all honesty the Car you would want for everything. (Save for extreme off-road, luggage/people hauling)

The one who have driven it, admit it to be a very capable vehicle in almost all aspects. Most ownership reports on Team BHP state the same. I am unsure of the Rexton, but the Yeti betters the others by a margin.

And if someone drives it over a significant distance and still does not like it, maybe his/her priorities are very different. To each his own. It isn't aimed at mass market and that is evident.

Is the yeti not meant for masses? Even fortuner which costs 10lac more sells 1000+ units.

Recently launched rexton sold 80 versus 6 yeti. We have to accept the market verdict. This car is a sales dud. The brightside? Should be cheap in the used car segment.

Last edited by Eddy : 3rd November 2012 at 11:28.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 19:42   #77
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

Thanks GTO & Parrys for the amazing work yet again this month.

Fortuner selling 1000+ units every month!! There is no other 20L+ car doing such numbers in the entire list. Says a lot about what a brawny & reliable SUV can do in the Indian market. Just wondering what it could do if Toyota decides to set up local manufacturing and brings down the cost to 15L ish.

Polo doing 3.4K against Liva 2.4K!! Even when the Liva is so much more VFM overall(Driveablility/Reliability/Space/FE). All down to the interior quality IMO. Toyota lost it with the interiors big time. A lost opportunity I'd say.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 11:15   #78
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Polo doing 3.4K against Liva 2.4K!! Even when the Liva is so much more VFM overall(Driveablility/Reliability/Space/FE). All down to the interior quality IMO. Toyota lost it with the interiors big time. A lost opportunity I'd say.
No one is perfect . Check your finances. You will realize the other side of the coin.

The Polo's 5.99 and 6.99% finance adds more value to the package when compared to Liva. This would be applicable only if the owner goes for a VW finance though.

In the long run, the cost of ownership of POLO comes very close to that of LIVA, which most of the people wont be able to understand. As said earlier, this would be applicable only if one is going for VW finance. [provided, only if you could manage the best deal]

Over a period of 5 years, the owner would be spending around 80K more on Polo in the form of service. As VW service is expensive because of synthetic oil and other costly stuff. But what the owner is getting ? better car, with good interiors rather than bare bone interiors of Liva.
Note: No offence meant to any owners. Only the package is the actual differenciating factor.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 12:02   #79
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Polo doing 3.4K against Liva 2.4K!! Even when the Liva is so much more VFM overall(Driveablility/Reliability/Space/FE). All down to the interior quality IMO. Toyota lost it with the interiors big time. A lost opportunity I'd say.
I have a feeling that Liva is lagging behind not because of the interior quality, but because of brand perception. People in India tend to believe that Toyota would be good at making cars either like Qualis and Innova or luxury sedans like Corolla -- not personal VFM hatches. Also Liva is just about a year old now and the diesel version came later than the petrol version -- not enough time yet to change the perception. VW, like Honda, came to the country with the "personal car" image.

Good to see that Liva has gained 37% over the previous month though!

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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
No one is perfect . Check your finances. You will realize the other side of the coin.

The Polo's 5.99 and 6.99% finance adds more value to the package when compared to Liva. This would be applicable only if the owner goes for a VW finance though.

In the long run, the cost of ownership of POLO comes very close to that of LIVA, which most of the people wont be able to understand. As said earlier, this would be applicable only if one is going for VW finance. [provided, only if you could manage the best deal]

Over a period of 5 years, the owner would be spending around 80K more on Polo in the form of service. As VW service is expensive because of synthetic oil and other costly stuff. But what the owner is getting ? better car, with good interiors rather than bare bone interiors of Liva.
Note: No offence meant to any owners. Only the package is the actual differenciating factor.
This Polo scheme was introduced/advertised in September, so I didn't have the option of checking this while settling for Liva. I would still be worried about spare parts cost with VW as compared to Liva, which is cheaper.

Toyota A$$ is a breeze, an asset for any company. I hope Toyota doesn't dilute this over the years. Maruti A$$ used to be like Toyota 12 years ago. Maruti service is still good, only that they have to take up too much workload these days!
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Old 3rd November 2012, 12:12   #80
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Originally Posted by subratasenn

I have a feeling that Liva is lagging behind not because of the interior quality, but because of brand perception. People in India tend to believe that Toyota would be good at making cars either like Qualis and Innova or luxury sedans like Corolla -- not personal VFM hatches. Also Liva is just about a year old now and the diesel version came later than the petrol version -- not enough time yet to change the perception. VW, like Honda, came to the country with the "personal car" image.

Good to see that Liva has gained 37% over the previous month though!

Toyota A$$ is a breeze, an asset for any company. I hope Toyota doesn't dilute this over the years. Maruti A$$ used to be like Toyota 12 years ago. Maruti service is still good, only that they have to take up too much workload these days!
For many it is the interiors that break the deal. I have plenty of friends who went for figo just because interiors felt cheap and never gave that premium feel

And everyone loved the performance and handling. And they continue to aspire toyota brand,including me

There were talks about toyota re working interior but looks like they want to milk more.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 12:26   #81
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

While I agree the colour scheme of the interiors of the Liva is quite uninspiring,however in my extensive usage as a cab, i quite liked the interiors. i am big fan of black upholstery. the dash board and door pad plastics also, to me , felt of well put together and built to last ( unlike the flimsy look and feel in say a Tata small car or for that matter even a Scorpio ). Loved the AC vents design and the steering as well.

The cab operators also claim a FE of 20kmpl in City for the diesel model ! I think if Toyota adds some biege ( oh i hate this colour ! )the larger buying public might take to this car

The only drawback I noticed was the annoying diesel clatter. I was told by the driver that the noise is loud only if the a/c is on and he demonstrated that as well. But still !

Last edited by narayan : 3rd November 2012 at 12:40.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 12:26   #82
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A Superb Report as usual by GTO !! and right on the 1st of this month is quite an effort.

Really impressive to see Duster taking the C2 segment by storm. Renault has really struck a chord with the customers with Duster and if Renault can keep there Service Stations as well as dealers in check, then i guess this car would definitely take Renault to where VW & Honda are at the moment. Though still a long journey to cover for Renault.

Nissan has clearly missed a trick or two by not introducing there own version of Duster sooner than later. Renault usually takes less than a year to bring in there own versions of Nissan cars, i thought a similar time frame should have been adopted by Nissan too, a 2014 launch would be too late to hop onto the bus.

Really sad to see Chevrolet Optra on its way out, I truly love that car for the brute power offered by its Diesel engine, clearly a class above the rest in its price range. D1 segment has lost its value to quite an extent with the emergence of the SUV's namely, Duster, XUV etc.,

And what to say about Maruti - Alto, Swift & Dzire have taken the chart by a storm, also good to see Sx4 returning with some decent figures, though still miles away from the market leaders in Verna & Vento. Commendable sales by City which still manages to catch a buyers imagination with its brand value.

All in all a very good month for the Indian Automobile Industry barring Tata & Fiat the latter is staring at its end very very clearly !!

Thanks for the amazing report as well as graphs GTO & Parrys !!
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Old 3rd November 2012, 12:58   #83
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Really impressive to see Duster taking the C2 segment by storm. Renault has really struck a chord with the customers with Duster and if Renault can keep there Service Stations as well as dealers in check, then i guess this car would definitely take Renault to where VW & Honda are at the moment. Though still a long journey to cover for Renault.
Really happy with the performance of Duster. Hope Hyundai and Maruti take notice of this and plan similar offerings.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 14:07   #84
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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For many it is the interiors that break the deal. I have plenty of friends who went for figo just because interiors felt cheap and never gave that premium feel

And everyone loved the performance and handling. And they continue to aspire toyota brand,including me

There were talks about toyota re working interior but looks like they want to milk more.
Figo is an equally great car. People do have their personal choices in buying decisions. I love the handling of Figo, the more silent engine (as compared to Liva). But Liva gives better GC (no chance of brushing the underbelly of the car with 5 people and luggage), better FE (I am constantly getting 17.5 in B2B city traffic with AC on). I don't mind the black-grey interiors that the Liva offers -- I had always preferred this colour scheme over beige interiors. The only thing that I miss in Liva (as compared to Figo Titanium) is electrically adjustable ORVMs. Rest are things (like rear window wiper) I can live without (have hardly used them in my earlier car) and some things can be added (alloy wheel and ICE and you get options here unlike the factory fitted things).

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Originally Posted by narayan View Post
While I agree the colour scheme of the interiors of the Liva is quite uninspiring,however in my extensive usage as a cab, i quite liked the interiors. i am big fan of black upholstery. the dash board and door pad plastics also, to me , felt of well put together and built to last ( unlike the flimsy look and feel in say a Tata small car or for that matter even a Scorpio ). Loved the AC vents design and the steering as well.

The cab operators also claim a FE of 20kmpl in City for the diesel model ! I think if Toyota adds some biege ( oh i hate this colour !) the larger buying public might take to this car

The only drawback I noticed was the annoying diesel clatter. I was told by the driver that the noise is loud only if the a/c is on and he demonstrated that as well. But still !
Yes, there is a diesel sound. And sadly, Toyota hasn't done anything to dampen the NVH a single bit. There is a happy kitten-like purr always audible -- it gets into a clatter if you rev the engine or you are one gear lower than where it should be. The sound kind of lessens past 2000 km on the odo, but it's there no doubt! It's the typical Toyota engine sound that you get to hear in a Innova too, but it's considerably less than Innova's. The Liva engine noise seems lower than Tata cars and comparable to that of the Logan.
I don't think that the engine sound is louder when the AC is on. AC blower itself becomes noisy when you put it above level 3!

I should take a lesson from the cab drivers in your city.
So far, I had not been able to cross 17.5 km to a litre. My Liva has done 3000 km in two months and the service people are assuring me of even better mileage after the 10,000 km service. Will see what happens, but doing 20 km/l seems impossible in Kolkata.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 18:56   #85
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Really happy with the performance of Duster. Hope Hyundai and Maruti take notice of this and plan similar offerings.
Hope they dont. Unless they want sales duds in the near future. Duster has a first mover advantage, giving SUV like styling and C segment Sedan like space/utility and handling all at a price below D segment offerings. Duster sells because it is unique, once we have other manufacturers selling similar products, each of them may get about 1000-2000 units sold per month at the max.
Problem is at 13lac segment, we are not seeing enough numbers to generate traction for similar products in future. Once the car market mature more, and with the economy growing, hopefully the action will shift from the 5-7lac segment to the 13-18lac segment. I speculate that by 2014-15 we should see more exciting offerings in the C2/D1 segment.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 19:20   #86
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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....
Hi GTO! Thanks for the analysis.

A suggestion - can we have two graphs in 'Manufacturer Sales Trends' - with and without Maruti figures. Removing Maruti figures would scale up the graph a bit for other manufacturers and make the trends more visible. Thanks.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 22:05   #87
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This Polo scheme was introduced/advertised in September, so I didn't have the option of checking this while settling for Liva. I would still be worried about spare parts cost with VW as compared to Liva, which is cheaper.

Toyota A$$ is a breeze, an asset for any company. I hope Toyota doesn't dilute this over the years. Maruti A$$ used to be like Toyota 12 years ago. Maruti service is still good, only that they have to take up too much workload these days!
The Polo scheme has been around from the past 2-3 years when VW announced the VW finance. maybe, one needs to concentrate more on all areas and then decide. This was there last year too.

The problem with this, is If you dont get the sweet deal, you will end up paying more + you do not have the privileges of going for pre closure of loans and other stuff. Partial payment is also not allowed [Not cent percent sure]

The only doubt with Toyota is, Toyota reliability is damn good, but these two Etios brothers being exception. They are like orphans adopted into Toyota family. So i doubt these two orphan brothers reliability.

Also read somewhere that, Toyota's one injector cost is 40K + a labor of some 6K. what would happen to the customer if some of the injectors conk off? Rest of the portfolio of Toyota is proven. Maybe owners can say couple of words about this and clarify our doubts.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 22:33   #88
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Spark and SX4 gaining 226.4% and 141.3% is surprising. It shows that Spark is really catching up and SX4 is still in demand which is normal.

I doubt whether the new Fiesta will ever be able to overtake Classic because classic seems to be the favorite of many.

All losers have lost because of obvious reasons.

Tatas should think and do something to improve their market performance.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 23:08   #89
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Discounting the Ace, rest are used to stuff people in villages, hence passenger vehicles(they have 4 wheels too!!)
What he meant was this analysis is for private vehicles not for commercial. Any vehicle when used to generate revenue becomes commercial whether it is carrying people or goods.

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I don't agree, The reliability word came from logan, whoever is buying Duster, not only for it looks and brand, but the robustness, reliability and low maintenance.
I am a living example. Logan was a huge help for me to have confidence on the Duster engine.

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I thought the Storme was already reviewed much much before its launch here (Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47)
But that is not the official review.

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For me (and many, I think), Storme is not "a very important car" to be officially reviewed (as GTO said). It's just a foolish makeup.
Makeup might be a strong word because they have done quite a few improvements in the mechanical area as well though obviously the exterior changes stick out more because most of us love the old safari design. And yet I think it IS an important car review.

Now for the sales figures, clearly the Ertigas, Dusters and XUVs are eating into the C and D segment cars. Very clear sign for the manufacturers. Everything else just fits into place, except for the fact that I cant understand who on god's green earth suddenly decided to buy those extra SX4s and Sparks without any changes in the models?

Oh and btw GTO, I tried restarting my browser, delete cookies etc, reload the thread thinking somehow I am not seeing your comments, only to realize later the reality

Last edited by suchit23 : 3rd November 2012 at 23:21.
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Old 4th November 2012, 01:02   #90
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Default Re: October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures

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Looking at the graphs, it seems like UVs are eating sedans for breakfast, especially in the C2 and D1 segments. It's also quite apparent that that it's the so called "premium" manufacturers that focus mostly on sedans from these segments that have taken the greatest hit, while the UV and hatch makers are on a high.
By the way how does Fiat manage to keep its production line running for just 37 Lineas? And even more important, how does it pay its employees with that kind of numbers?
(On a lighter note, Fiat employees must have the easiest jobs in the Indian auto industry)
In a lighter vein, SIAM figures capture sales of completely built up units only and not engines alone, which perhaps keep Fiat's hearth lit month on month! :-)

On a serious note, its a shame for a manufacturer to have someone else make the moolah on their drivetrain. More importantly, their multijet engine doing duty on so many other cars hasn't seen an upgrade in a long time. Here too they are exhibiting sloth which might just do them in!
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