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Old 6th November 2012, 16:06   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyself
Monkeying is spread across the brands too - Micra and Pulse, Sunny and Scala, Evalia and Stile and many other examples.
Platform-sharing among different brands is another way we, the customers, are being shortchanged. Consider Micra-Pulse and Sunny-Scala - Nissan does all the hard work of developing the car, and then Renault, being its parntner, gets to rob away all their effort and part of their market share. Same is the case with the Vento-Rapid, except here the parent company ageees to let Skoda get away with it.

Although a good thing for the customer in the end (read - cheaper cars), we aren't getting the kind of variety that is needed. We aren't maturing as a market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307
[*]Ford did the same thing with the Ikon when they brought it here. It is essentially a Fiesta with a boot designed for developing / emerging auto-markets.
By Fiesta, you mean the American hatchback, right? :stupid

Last edited by Harshal.Bhosale : 6th November 2012 at 16:10.
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Old 6th November 2012, 16:40   #17
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

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Originally Posted by torquing_points View Post
Yep. Corsa Swing. Fiat also had one cant remember the name.
The car was Fiat Petra, which was basically a Palio with a boot. And then there was also the Fiat Adventure-- Station Wagon version of the Palio.
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Old 6th November 2012, 17:16   #18
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

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Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale View Post

By Fiesta, you mean the American hatchback, right? :stupid
Nope, I mean this:

"Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry-ford_fiesta_mk5_front_20090227.jpg

This is the Mk4 Fiesta. It was very popular in Britan. I'm not sure if it was sold in the States.

Picture Source: Google

Last edited by suhaas307 : 6th November 2012 at 18:43. Reason: corrected typo Mk4 Fiesta NOT Mk5 :)
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Old 6th November 2012, 18:35   #19
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

Was Ikon derived from Fiesta Mk5? Front and side profile looks so similar

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Nope, I mean this:


This is the Mk5 Fiesta. It was very popular in Britan. I'm not sure if it was sold in the States.

Picture Source: Google
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Old 6th November 2012, 18:43   #20
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
[list]
  • Ford did the same thing with the Ikon when they brought it here. It is essentially a Fiesta with a boot designed for developing / emerging auto-markets. Ford exported the Ikon to South Africa and Brazil and Mexico, if I'm not wrong.
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Was Ikon derived from Fiesta Mk5? Front and side profile looks so similar
Yes, it was derived from the Mk4 Fiesta (typo in the previous posts) I'd mentioned it in my earlier post in the previous page.

This Fiesta wasn't around for too long though. The face-lifted model was replaced with a new-generation Mk5 Fiesta in 2002. The Figo incidentally is based on a heavily reworked Fiesta Mk5 Platform.
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Old 6th November 2012, 18:53   #21
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Originally Posted by suhaas307

This is the Mk5 Fiesta. It was very popular in Britan. I'm not sure if it was sold in the States.
Yes it was. In the US it was known as the Mark IV facelift, and in UK and other markets its known as the Mark V. The Ford Ikon in India was a derivative of this, as you pointed out.

In the US market, there was another after this, the Mark V (US) or the Mark VI (UK) in around 2003, and then ultimately the Mark VI (US) or Mark VII (UK) Fiesta hatchback in 2008 (the Indian all new Fiesta sedan takes its design cues from this, the Mark 6 US version.)

Whew, that was pretty confusing while typing; wonder how its gonna read!! :-D
Its probably the reason why Allan Mulally got fed up and came up with the One-Ford strategy!! ;-)

Interestingly, it seems that the Indian Ford Fiesta Classic was not sold anywhere other than India. Is this correct?

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Old 6th November 2012, 18:55   #22
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Why blame the auto companies alone? They make those products because they sell.

Whose buying those similar products? Monkeys?
Well said mate.... Else why would anyone who have burnt their fingers on a Indica, go buy a Indigo? They think by adding a boot, the car has moved several segments up and now rivals a Rolls or a BMW??(they too have a 'dicky'!!)

Its like our hindi movie villains trying to disguise themselves with just a mole or a mustache!! wo wo! how different they look!!!!

As long as there is a market, my friend, we are destined to see these beauties on roads!!
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Old 6th November 2012, 19:02   #23
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Originally Posted by vinair
They think by adding a boot, the car has moved several segments up and now rivals a Rolls or a BMW??(they too have a 'dicky'!!)
!!

Seriously, this Indian obsession (rather perceived higher status) with sedans (or any boot-jobbed hatch for that matter) is quite simply mystifying! I mean, how many of us use our dickeys on a day-to-day basis anyway!
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Old 6th November 2012, 19:52   #24
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Why blame the auto companies alone? They make those products because they sell.

Whose buying those similar products? Monkeys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
[list]

I believe this isn't 'monkey-culture' as such. It's an attempt to capture the market with several body-styles that gives customers a wide range of options to suit their needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post

The manufacturers are left out with only one option. Multiple cars on the same platform. sharing components. bringing the cost down and adding so called the VFM value to the products.

There is nothing wrong about platform sharing i.e. but the copying of products which is going on , like for say an example;

When the BRIO was considered for the Indian market, the engineers would not have even thought in their dreams that they would have to work on Brio to make it look something like this to rival the Ertiga;

"Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry-hondabriobasedmpv.jpg

^ & this is Monkey Culture , well nothing wrong in launching such a product.

But they are doing this because they have seen similar product work !

Nothing wrong in this , as its business & profits at the end.

Also nothing wrong in adopting to this methodology, i think its fair.

But what about the love for making cars ?

When was the last time a car maker made a car for the passion of making a car or for the love of driving i ask especially < 10 L segment ?
(other than the Fiesta 1.6 S or Palio 1.6 / S10)

Where an Automotive manufacturer can say ' yes we have made a beautiful machine to be enjoyed behind the wheel ' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
And this trend has always existed in every industry. Apple got the Iphone and since then mobile manufacturer has been trying to make their own "Iphones".

Somebody creates the original idea which acts as a base for all to develop it in their own way. They are hardly "monkeys".
Modification of an already existing cell phone in the market (Brio) to make it look like an newly lauched i-phone (Ertiga) is copying enough

Last edited by karan561 : 6th November 2012 at 20:05.
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Old 6th November 2012, 20:30   #25
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Originally Posted by karan561
But what about the love for making cars ?
Exactly what's missing nowadays. Enthusiasts' cars.
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Old 6th November 2012, 21:22   #26
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

Well. Good thread first of all.

Now, first of all, rather than copying, i would suggest the word Leverage. Now, everyone leverages, because that reduces cost. Leverage is never bad - just that the intent should not be cost reduction alone.

While it is true that some of these cars are purely a "cost reduction" mechanism, some of them are good designs too.

While Indica/Indigo, swift/dzire are the worst examples, the good examples are the Live/Etios. I think leverage is great. For me, i would like to have global cars here. But the duties and taxes combined with our comparitivly lower salaries, make it important for us to spend less on the initial cost and more importantly on the running and maintainance cost.

Now see why Maruti Dzire sells 11k units a month inspite of having the worst design? The point is cost of maintainance, availibility of spares and such.

All this is again possible because of leverage across models.
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Old 6th November 2012, 22:37   #27
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

Micra to Sunny and Pulse to Scala are not actually qualified for this category.
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Old 6th November 2012, 22:46   #28
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale View Post
Exactly what's missing nowadays. Enthusiasts' cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post
Well. Good thread first of all.
Thanks !

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post

Now, first of all, rather than copying, i would suggest the word Leverage. Now, everyone leverages, because that reduces cost. Leverage is never bad - just that the intent should not be cost reduction alone.
All this is again possible because of leverage across models.
Yes i agree ! Copying may be too crude a word in this context. Leverage is more refined
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Old 6th November 2012, 23:15   #29
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

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Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale View Post
Consider Micra-Pulse and Sunny-Scala - Nissan does all the hard work of developing the car, and then Renault, being its parntner, gets to rob away all their effort and part of their market share.
Renault did the hard work of pumping money to Nissan & at present owns majority shares of Nissan. If Renault was not there to fund Nissan, it would have shut shop about 10 years back.

Kindly read "The Nissan Way" by Carlos Ghosn. It is a really interesting book, must read for auto enthusiasts.
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Old 7th November 2012, 00:01   #30
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Default Re: "Monkey Culture" in the Indian Automobile Industry

I dont agree that this is Monkey culture. Fact is, IMO, this culture came to India too late.

Cars like Baleno, Esteem, Astra, Corsa were available in multiple body formats in developed markets. The Indian market for well known reason was unaware of this trend. Slapping a on a hatch is not new to any market. What is unique to Indian market is developing a sedan which is under 4m. length. Notchbacks are best suited for this type of restricted length sedan, but Indian culture and social structre has a special space for a three box sedan rather than two and a half box.

Offering different body styles in sort of platform sharing which might even result into SUV ( like duster ). Ertiga is another relatively home grown effort. Xylo is approx. 70% Bolero, something not all are aware of ( read in ACI ).

At the end of the day, its not monkey culture, but rather an attempt to capture to volumes. Although a bit on arrogant side, but I believe that money culture is having laws which cannot protect a car owner like poor A.S & S., high priced spares, very high taxes, etc.

If there is one another culture which others have followed, its selling different generations of same model sharing showroom floor. Santro, i10, Accent, Verna, M800, AltoK10, Alto 800, A-star are good examples of this.
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