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Old 27th November 2012, 12:39   #46
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Well is it a matter of pride yes.
But does it make good business sense, I dont think so.
It will be big, the press will simply go berserk!!!

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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
AM makes cars which are good to look at but the market is diminishing for such fuel thirsty cars, unless they are German. It will not mean much of inroads into markets like US. It might make sense only in UK (I am commenting on my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong).
Wrong, AM is a big sportscar brand even in the US. Actually its the Italians who rule the supercar roost (Fezza, Lambo, Pagani, Bugatti....), as a matter of fact if the car is good enough it creates its own kudos irrespective of country eg. Konigzeg (Sweden) or Noble (UK).

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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Moreover, think of what lessons can Mahindra put from a Car into its India- centered SUV s. Dont think it will make much business sense for them to buy it.

Moreover think of it, Mahindra has not been able to make much sense of its SVU maker acquisition Ssangyong itself, for almost 3 yrs. Dont think it will make much sense.
This I agree with.
The big name sportscar makers have heavily invested in next gen technology (electric, hybrid, KERS...) and will have their models out soon, the new Enzo or Porsche's upcoming 918. All this requires huge investments and a very very strong R&D team. Aston so far has no replies to such developments.

Even forgetting future tech AM's present platforms and engines are dated, M&M will have to develop an all new platform and engine range and fast before loosing even more market share. Like I said before the investment required will be huge and even then its very very difficult without the backing of an exceptionally strong R&D team.

Like you said, Ssangyong is still making losses after 3 years of ownership and still needs more investment.

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
There will be a lot of synergy with Tata. The Aston Production site is next door to Jag's r and d centre. Some of the JLR managers have done stints in Aston Martin and a lot of technology and components could be shared. Add to that Aston Martin have access to JLR's extensive R&D
I have a sneaky sneaky suspicion that Mahindra has some kind of understanding with Tata. JLR are already deep in development of their upcoming supercar C-X75, with all the works, carbon fibre chassis, new high revving supercharged engine, all wheel electric drive; the works...Imagine if AM gets access to this technology?!!

Otherwise if Mahindra goes at it alone it will be a very very difficult and expensive affair.

What do I know, Mr. Mahindra and his team know this game very well and should have big plans in place.
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Old 27th November 2012, 18:46   #47
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

Looks like Mahindra is strongly poised to do it.

A brilliant article by Hilton Holloway of Autocar on the AM-M&M deal:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/indus...ing-regardless
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Old 27th November 2012, 19:01   #48
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Originally Posted by shortbread
Looks like Mahindra is strongly poised to do it.

A brilliant article by Hilton Holloway of Autocar on the AM-M&M deal:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/indus...ing-regardless
Thank you for sharing! His parting statement makes a lot of sense. Prestige is probably all they have left to hawk, speaking from an investment-return point of view!
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Old 27th November 2012, 19:27   #49
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

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Originally Posted by 9thsphinx View Post
RIP Aston.
Don't think so. If TATA can rescue JLR & Geely can manage Volvo better than it already was, AM has a better chance of survival under Mahindra.

Personally i would be happier if Tata bought the AM shares.
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Old 28th November 2012, 10:53   #50
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Looks like Mahindra is strongly poised to do it.

A brilliant article by Hilton Holloway of Autocar on the AM-M&M deal:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/indus...ing-regardless
GBP 72 million profits = Rs. 500 crores profit, on annual sales of just 4200 units. Those are incredible numbers for a supercar manufacturer.

It looks like I don't have to sell my M&M shares after all if the deal goes through.

Last edited by smartcat : 28th November 2012 at 10:58.
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Old 28th November 2012, 21:18   #51
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I really don't see any reason for Mahindra to go for this one. Ssangyong at one end and AM on the other. They should atleast get the Ssangyong bit sorted since synergies are obvious to see. AM doesnt offer volumes and has historically been a drainer on the owning companies finances. With valuations on the current transaction being prohibitive, there really seems no concrete reason to stretch themselves to bid. After all it should be more about pragmatism than pride!

Last edited by mohit333 : 28th November 2012 at 21:21.
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Old 28th November 2012, 21:43   #52
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

AM's cars havent changed significantly for quite a while now - things dont look too bad right now, but there hasnt been much talk or news of new models in the pipeline.

Considering that the company cannot change owners (see http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...-keep-control/), and the bids are reported to be for a minority stake with the Kuwaitis still holding 50%, it is not immediately apparent how the investment would make financial sense unless backed by more $$$ for both R&D as well as future purchases of equity.

The Italian firm is there so they can sell the stake in future, not to nurture the company/brand and make better cars. Therefore unless Mr. AM (Anand Mahindra) has seen something nobody else can see in AM, this seems very much like an emotional buy.

Only time will tell.

Last edited by Steeroid : 28th November 2012 at 21:45.
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Old 28th November 2012, 23:08   #53
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
GBP 72 million profits = Rs. 500 crores profit, on annual sales of just 4200 units. Those are incredible numbers for a supercar manufacturer.
That's just 12 lakhs on each car right? Isn't the margin a bit low for a supercar maker where the base model retails for 1 Cr.?

And Aston will need a lot of investment in the near future for new platforms, engines etc. It is going to take a lot of commitment from M&M to make this a success.
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Old 29th November 2012, 00:30   #54
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Originally Posted by deetjohn
That's just 12 lakhs on each car right? Isn't the margin a bit low for a supercar maker where the base model retails for 1
I guess it's the net profit after they have met all their expenses from their margin. Margin should be even higher.
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Old 29th November 2012, 07:20   #55
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

AM has confirmed that it is in advanced talks with investors for an equity injection.

Initial reports suggested that Invest Industrial were favourites to secure the £250m deal, but sources now suggest that Mahindra & Mahindra has moved ahead in negotiations and is the favoured partner. The winning bidder is expect to own 40% of the company and have 50% of the voting rights.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...s-equity-talks
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Old 3rd December 2012, 17:25   #56
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

Mahindra and Mahindra is a better partner for iconic carmaker Aston Martin: UK Labour Union - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/17456496.cms

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Auto analysts may still argue about the strategic fit between Mahindra and Mahindra's (M&M) tractors, its boxy utility vehicles and the sleek two door coupes of Aston Martin, but as the talks between the two sides over a strategic stake in the iconic UK car maker gets into top gear, M&M has received a strategic endorsement from Unite - UK's biggest labour union. Even in Aston Martin's sole plant in Gaydon, England, Unite is the sole union for a workforce of 1800, including contract and agency workers.
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Old 4th December 2012, 01:12   #57
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

Moody’s to review Aston Martin for possible downgrade deeper into “junk” territory!!

- 'The rating agency said that if Aston Martin were unable to improve its liquidity profile within the next couple of weeks, this would most likely result in a downgrade which would affect £304m of the company’s debt; which Moody’s currently rates at B3, or six notches below investment grade.'

- 'Falk Frey, Moody’s autos sector analyst, wrote on Friday: “The review was prompted by a significant deterioration in Aston Martin’s liquidity profile as per end-September 2012, caused by a much weaker cash generation and operating performance in the third quarter than anticipated by the company and compared to Moody’s expectations.”

- 'Moody’s said the company’s high negative free cash flow in the third quarter had reduced the cash available to meet an interest payment of £14m coming due in January 2013. The agency said Aston Martin’s cash on its balance sheet stood at £24.8m as of end-September. Together with £20m drawn under a revolving credit facility and working capital releases in the fourth quarter of this year, Moody’s said “those funds should enable Aston Martin to pay its interest due in January 2013”.

Full story and source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d7112174-3...#axzz2DwBiVEd7
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Old 6th December 2012, 07:47   #58
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

Mahindra & Mahindra out of Aston Martin race? Eu pvt equity fund Investindustrial still negotiating!

The $15.4-billion Mahindra Group appears to have pulled out of the race for troubled luxury car brand Aston Martin.
The entire top brass of M&M, who were camping in London till last week, have now returned.

The European private equity fund Investindustrial's top team are still in London as negotiations for Aston Martin continue.

Apart from Aston Martin's own financial baggage, the Mahindra team was also influenced by the fact that TID (The Investment Dar), the Kuwaitbased owner of half of Aston Martin Lagonda, is itself undergoing a court-endorsed rehabilitation process.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/17500992.cms
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Old 6th December 2012, 19:16   #59
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Most probably, investindustrial is going to win the bid. Its sensible given that it would have been a cash drain. Aston hasn't really got the volumes that jlr does.
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Old 7th December 2012, 07:45   #60
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Default re: Mahindra buying Aston Martin? EDIT : Investindustrial is the new owner!

Investindustrial said to be close to buying Aston Martin stake.


Investindustrial, based in London, has trumped Indian automaker Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. to invest in the automaker, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing private negotiations. A final agreement has not yet been signed.

The deal would give Aston Martin a much needed cash infusion to invest in automotive resources to compete with Bentley and Ferrari.


Investindustrial's offer includes plans to use technology and car parts from AMG, the Mercedes-Benz unit that makes sports cars



Last edited by volkman10 : 7th December 2012 at 07:46.
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