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Old 14th November 2012, 15:43   #1
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Thumbs up Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

With no diesel engine options available for entry level cars, Maruti Suzuki is planning to develop a 800cc two cylinder diesel engine for Indian Market.

This is great news and hopefully we should see another diesel engine war in the
A segment cars.

Maruti Suzuki plans 800cc diesel engine, may deliver 30kmpl average
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Old 14th November 2012, 16:21   #2
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Smile re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Although this is great news but will sound the death knell for the petrol hatches. While Tata motors intend to bring the 800 cc diesel engine in Nano and Hyundai looking to launch i10 diesel the entry level segment is going to see some serious competition now.

The only deterrent to this news would be Diesel price deregulation
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Old 14th November 2012, 16:29   #3
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

I hope that the diesel prices are de-regularized before this engine becomes a reality. Can't imagine the jammed roads of Delhi with many of these 800 cc powered diesel engine cars making clattering noises.
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Old 14th November 2012, 16:38   #4
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

I hope they are not chopping off two cylinders from the 1.3 MJD.

But its high time Suzuki thinks about developing its own diesel engine.
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Old 14th November 2012, 16:49   #5
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Just wondering what would happen if Diesel were to cost same as petrol tomorrow.

Looking at the position of our govt, hike in diesel price looks very likely post Gujrat elections, and if Diesel touches 60 in Bangalore(petrol 75) things can get very interesting.

Agreed Diesel cars return more mileage, but 4-5 years ago for one to recover the extra premium paid for diesel car(over petrol version) he had to have a monthly running of 1500km or above.

But as petrol prices went up, diesel stayed at same point widening the gap and bringing the monthly running equation below 1000km

So if diesel prices were to get deregulated, it will be interesting to know how many peope will still opt for diesel( currently it is 80%-20% favouring diesel) will it change to 50%-50% ?
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Old 14th November 2012, 17:26   #6
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

All the skepticism is valid. But an entry level diesel engine will light up that segment for sure. Pricing difference for similar petrol and diesel models cannot be as high as the C or D segments. Manufacturers may price it in the region of 50-60k more to make it viable for sales. An entry level hatch or small diesel car selling for Rs. 1 lakh more than its petrol counterpart may not interest that segment of buyers.

And although diesel is priced at subsidized rates, it doesn't look like the present or any future government will look at tampering too much with it. Prices of 60+ seem far far fetched. With all essential commodities depending on diesel for transportation and inflation at just manageable levels, its a very sensitive decision which the present govt. struggling on one leg will not be ready to take.
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Old 14th November 2012, 19:12   #7
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

The key to success here would be pricing. The entry level hatch segment is very price conscious. If the pricing difference of 1L as seen in the premium hatchback segment (variant to variant) is replicated I don't see it lure too many buyers.

Entry level buyers may not be daily users of their car. Existing bikes, public transport may still serve that purpose. Thus the whole objective to savings with diesel may get negated for such users as their running would not justify a diesel mill however frugal the mill may be.
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Old 14th November 2012, 19:23   #8
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I hope that the diesel prices are de-regularized before this engine becomes a reality. Can't imagine the jammed roads of Delhi with many of these 800 cc powered diesel engine cars making clattering noises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
Just wondering what would happen if Diesel were to cost same as petrol tomorrow.

Looking at the position of our govt, hike in diesel price looks very likely post Gujrat elections, and if Diesel touches 60 in Bangalore(petrol 75) things can get very interesting.

Agreed Diesel cars return more mileage, but 4-5 years ago for one to recover the extra premium paid for diesel car(over petrol version) he had to have a monthly running of 1500km or above.

But as petrol prices went up, diesel stayed at same point widening the gap and bringing the monthly running equation below 1000km

So if diesel prices were to get deregulated, it will be interesting to know how many peope will still opt for diesel( currently it is 80%-20% favouring diesel) will it change to 50%-50% ?
Diesel costs the same as petrol in many European countries and yet 50% of cars sold run on diesel.
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Old 14th November 2012, 19:28   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower

Diesel costs the same as petrol in many European countries and yet 50% of cars sold run on diesel.
How about the car prices? Are there any premium for diesel engines? Even in India if we see luxury European cars not much price diff between petrol and diesel
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Old 14th November 2012, 19:49   #10
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Diesel costs the same as petrol in many European countries and yet 50% of cars sold run on diesel.
You stole words out of my mouth!
More or less! Today (as of an hour back, Diesel costs 1.49 euros and Super (petrol) costs 1.72 euros) in Munich. There will be always a 0.23 (Euro)cent difference between Diesel and Petrol in Germany. I guess @Zed could tell more on the actual price.

I guess some where down the line even our govt. will lift the subsidy on Diesel making it more or less around 60 INR. Yet, by the virtue of its better mileage(relatively) I guess diesel vehicles will sell more than petrol.

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 14th November 2012 at 19:52.
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Old 14th November 2012, 19:52   #11
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
I hope they are not chopping off two cylinders from the 1.3 MJD.

But its high time Suzuki thinks about developing its own diesel engine.
I don't know how far this comment is true but when I accompanied one of my colleague to test drive the Beat Diesel few days back, the SA was mentioning that the same 1L engine would be used by Maruti for their Alto and Wagnor R in future. I could not merit this comment at that time but now it seems to be an option for Fiat to plan their strategy.
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Old 14th November 2012, 20:04   #12
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Good to see Maruti developing their own engine. Get a 1000cc engine so that it can be planted in the Alto 800, WagonR and their likes.

I don't think Maruti can shave off two cylinders from the 1.3 MJD and make it "Thier Own produce". Fiat would definitely strike back.

Buying a diesel generally makes sense if the mileage per day is around 70kms else the premuin paid over the petrol variant is useless. I know most of the diesel users buy it because of the price difference between petrol and diesel.

In foriegn countries both the fuels are priced similarly so people with high mileage driving willl still opt for a diesel mill than a petrol.

This was just the concern for me to jump from WagonR to Ritz DDiS. (100 kms a day). Petrol didn't make sense. I used to hate to see the fuel guage.
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Old 14th November 2012, 21:04   #13
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Article says 800cc, 2cylinder, 40 bhp. I hope it comes with better power when they introduce in India.

Diesel engines might be having better torque than petrol but if the target vehicle is next gen A-star as mentioned in the article, we'll have to wait and see how sluggish it would be. I guess atleast 50 bhp should be needed based on its weight to have a matching performace to the petrol version. Not sure why they are restricting themselves to 800cc when a 3 cylinder 1L engine might be able to provide a much better performance. Any idea regarding the tax guidelines for petrol and diesel small cars in Japan similar to our small car requirement?
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Old 14th November 2012, 21:11   #14
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Article says 800cc, 2cylinder, 40 bhp. I hope it comes with better power when they introduce in India.

Diesel engines might be having better torque than petrol but if the target vehicle is next gen A-star as mentioned in the article, we'll have to wait and see how sluggish it would be. I guess atleast 50 bhp should be needed based on its weight to have a matching performace to the petrol version. Not sure why they are restricting themselves to 800cc when a 3 cylinder 1L engine might be able to provide a much better performance.
It is like putting the 1.3 DDiS in the SX4.

To me it is not suited for that car. A 1.6L diesel mill would have rocked.

Hope Maruti is listening to us. Get a 1.0 L diesel mill. A 4 cylinder engine hopefully. It can be versatile for most near segments.
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Old 14th November 2012, 21:13   #15
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Default

If MSIL manage to get this right and build a small capacity diesel engine with acceptable levels of NVH, then I guess they will have to build not one, but two new plants in Gujarat to meet the demand.

This is a welcome move! I see absolutely no reason why buyers of entry level cars should be restricted to petrol (and LPG/CNG) when cars from all the higher segments can run on diesel and benefit from the GoI's senseless pricing policy. At present, the least expensive diesel car one can buy is the Beat Diesel (if one leaves out the similarly priced Indica V2). This engine, along with Tata's Nano diesel would fill the gap entry level segments. And if Hyundai can come up with a diesel Eon or Santro, it would mean even more choice for consumers.

But why a two-potter, MSIL? Tata are reportedly trying hard to reduce the NVH on the Nano diesel and Honda have even ditched plans for a 3-pot diesel due to NVH concerns. Maruti's only experience with diesels is from borrowed ones and Suzuki have no R&D experience in diesels either. Given the circumstances, wouldn't a three-cylinder 900cc or 1l diesel engine have made more sense?
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