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Old 10th September 2013, 15:35   #256
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by allajunaki View Post
1.6TDi on Vento is a brilliant engine. Coming from Petrol cars, I have tough time believing that it is just a 105PS engine (Tip: As I read on a TDi forum, "You buy the horsepower, but you drive the torque). Now, Polo with the same engine will smoke the competition. What you guys need to understand is that at the acceleration at lower gears will not be much (maybe even a bit duller than the 1.2 TSi), but at higher gears (3rd , 4th, 5th) the relentless torque of the engine will will pull you ahead of most of the things on the road.

Actually I don't understand what you mean. Most of us treat horsepower and torque as two completely different entities like petrol and diesel, apart from getting carried away by fancy quotes. In reality its physics and we must take some time to understand it better. Here is a nicely written article about the same, http://www.procivic.com/pages-horsep...que/index.html


How is Petrol Safer ? Petrol is more flammable than Diesels. In fact, Diesels have higher flash point, and hence less likely to catch fire.

I guess you took it literally, its not petrol vs diesel rather the petrol car with ESP being safer than its diesel counterpart

What is better in Petrol ? (The 1.2 TSi)
Throttle response. Far crisper in Petrol. After driving a petrol Throttle response between both are like Knife Vs Hammer (Precision tool vs Blunt Tool with lots of power).
NVH (refinement)
DSG (convenience)
ESP (safety)
I am not trying to incite a petrol versus diesel war here. But just want to bring home the point that with the advent of turbo charged petrol cars, the older comparisons don't hold true. Diesel engines run a higher compression, hence the power boost upon adding a turbocharger is typically quite low. Most diesel turbo engines are installed for dependability and reliable engine running rather than for pure power. Most of the members in this forum are enthusiasts/petrolheads (don't know if there is a term "dieselhead"), hence its Team-BHP and not Team-VFM.

However,with the current fuel prices and economy, it makes perfect sense to get a diesel for mileage or whatever other reason.
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Old 10th September 2013, 15:44   #257
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

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Originally Posted by radek View Post
As I said in earlier post, GT is limited production. It will take some time for stock to reach all dealers. I think they have given stock to their top dealers. So check with other dealers in Bangalore also. In any case, official announcement is expected on 13th.
I don't know how good the dealers in Pune are,but the dealer I called in bangalore in the oldest and biggest guy,and they have the most attitude.

Anyway,thanks to your suggestion made a call to another new dealer who was far more proactive and offered to deliver the first car allotted to them if I make a booking now. Yes, he confirmed launch date to be 13th.

OT: This diesel v/s petrol debate is pretty pointless IMHO, some are die-hard petrol fans and will never look at a diesel no matter how practical it is. Others do long distances and like to drive something fun and which doesn't necessarily burn a big hole in their pocket. Luckily we have one of each type the enthusiasts can pick from and enjoy!

Last edited by shashank.nk : 10th September 2013 at 15:49.
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Old 10th September 2013, 16:30   #258
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Actually I don't understand what you mean. Most of us treat horsepower and torque as two completely different entities like petrol and diesel, apart from getting carried away by fancy quotes. In reality its physics and we must take some time to understand it better. Here is a nicely written article about the same, http://www.procivic.com/pages-horsep...que/index.html
Torque and HP are related in a lot of ways. Even the link you have provided proves the same.
Here is a quote from the post you have shared :
power = (X lb-ft * Y rpm / 5252) hp
"So one horsepower is a force (a torque to be exact) of 5252 lb-ft @ 1 rpm."

The reason why Torque matters : Torque (and its spread) determines how well the car performs under load. Torque also determines how consistent engine performance remains at higher gears (2 statements are more or less the same, I know, but load can also come from additional passengers, luggage, etc).

Sufficient to say that at similar Horsepower, under similar load conditions, higher torque vehicle (with a good torque spread) will accelerate better in gear (Note, Similar HP).
1.2 TSi , no doubt is an advanced and fantastic motor. But given the Torque advantage with similar BHP figures, a GTd will have similar (if not the same) performance characteristics on the highways. Of course TSi may still have a slight advantage owing to more tightly packed ratios, and lesser weight.

As you can see, I do not quote stuff out of air, I do know a fair bit of principle, though I'm no auto engineer or as knowledgeable as some of the members here.
Team-BHP is also filled with people who like Diesels, bargain hunters and various other types of car enthusiasts . There are ownership reports of everything from a nano to jet liner!
Also, some of us (like me) did not buy Diesel for its economy, but for the beautiful blend of Torque and HP the engines produce. I do not run my car nearly enough to even justify a Diesel car purchase. And no I'm not a Diesel head, I love petrol cars. I just made an exception in this case (Fiat was in rough shape when I got my Vento).
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Old 10th September 2013, 17:07   #259
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by allajunaki View Post

How is Petrol Safer ? Petrol is more flammable than Diesels. In fact, Diesels have higher flash point, and hence less likely to catch fire.

ESP
Quote:
Originally Posted by allajunaki View Post
1.2 TSi , no doubt is an advanced and fantastic motor. But given the Torque advantage with similar BHP figures, a GTd will have similar (if not the same) performance characteristics on the highways. Of course TSi may still have a slight advantage owing to more tightly packed ratios, and lesser weight.
Oh no! I did not mean to go down the petrol v/s diesel affair. In my mind there is one clear winner in that battle.

Recently, while trying to ascertain if my car is equipped with ESP or no; I did some understeer turning to oversteer test on the car - Although this was done in a controlled environment, I for once realized the importance of ESP at that moment.

Equipped with ESP (which makes it a lot safer than what numbers or statistics can manage to explain), lower NVH, the cooler gearbox (It can really upshift) the 1.2 TSI remains my weapon of choice on the highways or anywhere else.

Now equip the 1.2 Tsi with Bilstein B6's, Paddle shifters with extenders from Gti, a slightly tuned map, a set of better tyres and it all of a sudden transforms to one of the most desirable cars for enthusiasts. Trust me. I know of one and I have driven one extensively
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Old 10th September 2013, 20:08   #260
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by azeemhafiz View Post
Oh no! I did not mean to go down the petrol v/s diesel affair. In my mind there is one clear winner in that battle.

Recently, while trying to ascertain if my car is equipped with ESP or no; I did some understeer turning to oversteer test on the car - Although this was done in a controlled environment, I for once realized the importance of ESP at that moment.

Equipped with ESP (which makes it a lot safer than what numbers or statistics can manage to explain), lower NVH, the cooler gearbox (It can really upshift) the 1.2 TSI remains my weapon of choice on the highways or anywhere else.

Now equip the 1.2 Tsi with Bilstein B6's, Paddle shifters with extenders from Gti, a slightly tuned map, a set of better tyres and it all of a sudden transforms to one of the most desirable cars for enthusiasts. Trust me. I know of one and I have driven one extensively
Haha, not at all. Petrol Vs Diesel is an argument that never ends
In any case, I whole heartedly agree that ESP, TCS, ABS, Airbags are all indispensable, and one should go for it, if they can afford it.
And I'm a big fan of DSG and TSi. Check the polo TSi thread, I have written a brief TD and given TSi glowing reviews.
Having said that TDi engines are brilliant with good torque and drivability. Of course, it wont rev as hard, but it pulls quite well. I thought I will give potential buyers of GTD a brief opinion of their engine, coming from someone who owns one (the engine that is).
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Old 10th September 2013, 22:36   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allajunaki View Post

Haha, not at all. Petrol Vs Diesel is an argument that never ends
In any case, I whole heartedly agree that ESP, TCS, ABS, Airbags are all indispensable, and one should go for it, if they can afford it.
And I'm a big fan of DSG and TSi. Check the polo TSi thread, I have written a brief TD and given TSi glowing reviews.
Having said that TDi engines are brilliant with good torque and drivability. Of course, it wont rev as hard, but it pulls quite well. I thought I will give potential buyers of GTD a brief opinion of their engine, coming from someone who owns one (the engine that is).
Ok guys,
Just deciding between the two, just wanted to know the following ;
Which will be the fastest to 100?
20-80?
40-100?
And top speed if 200..which will get there faster and hold it?

With a remap..like some in this forum have done on their rapid with the same engine... will tsi be any match to a remapped tdi?
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Old 10th September 2013, 22:56   #262
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

OT, but since the discussion strayed into petrol vs diesel, you can find a fair comparison within the Polo family.

1.2 TDi vs 1.2 TSi

74 BHP vs 103 BHP

180 Nm vs 175 Nm

Take your pick.
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Old 10th September 2013, 23:07   #263
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyasachetan View Post
Ok guys,
Just deciding between the two, just wanted to know the following ;
Which will be the fastest to 100?
20-80?
40-100?
And top speed if 200..which will get there faster and hold it?

With a remap..like some in this forum have done on their rapid with the same engine... will tsi be any match to a remapped tdi?
From http://www.vw.co.za/ the following information is available:

1. Polo 1.6 TDI
0-100 Kmph : 10.4s
Top speed : 189 Km/hr

and from www.volkswagen.co.uk

2. Polo 1.2 TSI
0-100 Kmph : 9.7s (from UK website)
Top speed : 118 miles/hr ~ 189 Km/hr
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Old 10th September 2013, 23:10   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport View Post
OT, but since the discussion strayed into petrol vs diesel, you can find a fair comparison within the Polo family.

1.2 TDi vs 1.2 TSi

74 BHP vs 103 BHP

180 Nm vs 175 Nm

Take your pick.
One word to solve all the which is going to be faster questions... "Poweband", technically put.. the duration over the rpm range of an engine where peak power is available. So better put ur question as 105bhp/250nm torque over 3000 rpm in the tdi or 105bhp/175nm over 5500rpm in the tsi. Get my point? Its why the laura tsi is faster than a remapped laura tdi...
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Old 11th September 2013, 06:06   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vyasachetan View Post

Ok guys,
Just deciding between the two, just wanted to know the following ;
Which will be the fastest to 100?
20-80?
40-100?
And top speed if 200..which will get there faster and hold it?

With a remap..like some in this forum have done on their rapid with the same engine... will tsi be any match to a remapped tdi?
The 1.6 TDI and 1.2 TSI may have similar 0-100 numbers, but where the GT TSI will quash the GT TDI will be in the 20-80 and 40-100 acceleration times. The 7-speed automatic DSG gearbox will do a far better job of managing the power and directing it to the task at hand than any human can do with a manual 5-speed box.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 11th September 2013 at 06:07.
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Old 11th September 2013, 07:50   #266
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

If the price is 8L ex-showroom, this is indeed great VFM.

With the 1.6L engine, the Polo is not a small car according to GOI and attracts an excise duty of whopping 24%.

The GTs have been a smart move by VW. Great pricing and excellent drive-trains. Eager to drive one.
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Old 11th September 2013, 12:58   #267
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
If the price is 8L ex-showroom, this is indeed great VFM.

With the 1.6L engine, the Polo is not a small car according to GOI and attracts an excise duty of whopping 24%.

The GTs have been a smart move by VW. Great pricing and excellent drive-trains. Eager to drive one.
The 1.6 TDI will be taxed at 27% against 12% for the 1.2 TSI, considering a 15% difference you are right, 8L is good pricing.
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Old 11th September 2013, 13:05   #268
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Is the Polo GT TSI faster than the Polo GT GTD? Yes. Will this in anyway hurt the sales of the GTD. Absolutely NOT. Its a fantastic diesel hatch, the likes of which we have never seen. It may not have the Electronics of the TSI but its got the RAW mechanical hot hatch feel of the Palio GTX's.
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Old 11th September 2013, 20:08   #269
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

I had the chance of TD'ing the new GT Tdi, I liked the drive and feel of it, what astonished me is that they are expecting to sell it around 10 Lakh. The GT Tsi is not available anytime soon where GT Tdi is ex stock if booked now, I am confused as i was eager to get a powerfull volkswagen hatch.

Last edited by zebo : 11th September 2013 at 20:10.
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Old 11th September 2013, 21:03   #270
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Thumbs up re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Both GT Tdi and GT Tsi should have all wheel disk brakes, stiffer suspension, good head lights and ESP (Tsi has ESP). DSG can be optional. IMHO, Power without control is meaningless. GT's (GTI) are clearly for enthusiasts.

Right now, Polo as a car, has just about adequate head lights and brakes. Suspension is on the softer side but GC is good. This setup is good enough for the initial 3 liter engines, which suffice the needs of a common commuter. Chassis can take a lot more.

Today, we have hutch-backs costing 25L+ in the market from Volvo, BMW and Merc... A Polo with a lot of bells and whistle, priced even above 10L, will still excite many. This can even fulfill dreams of some middle class people like me, who cannot afford BMW's or Merc's. Off course, we may not be able to expect volume here. But then, it can also boost VW's image.

The question is: Will VW be brave enough to try this?

Fortune favors the brave.

Last edited by Chethan B G : 11th September 2013 at 21:24.
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