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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:20   #61
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

If this new GTD is to come with the 1.6 TDI, it could be a signal that the much-awaited 1.5 TDI is further delayed. In terms of performance, the 1.6 TDI is unlikely to be significantly better than the 1.5 TDI. However, in terms of excise, the difference is substantial. A Polo 1.6 TDI would be in the 27% bracket, versus just 12% for a Polo 1.5 TDI. The impact on ex-showroom prices will easily exceed one lakh, not to mention loss of volumes due to high pricing. At the OTR level, the impact would be even higher.

Even for the Vento, a 1.5 TDI would lower the excise bracket from 27% to 24%. VW could actually standardize the 1.5 TDI as its diesel offering for the Polo as well as the Vento, replacing the 1.2 TDI as well as the 1.6 TDI. Skoda could use the same engine on the Rapid and even re-launch the Fabia with it.

I wonder what is keeping VW from modifying its existing 1.6 TDI to come up with a new 1.5 TDI. Are development costs so high that they offset the gains on excise and consequent increase in volumes?
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:29   #62
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by satyaanveshi View Post
I wonder what is keeping VW from modifying its existing 1.6 TDI to come up with a new 1.5 TDI. Are development costs so high that they offset the gains on excise and consequent increase in volumes?
VW doesn't have any 1.5 ltr engine in their stable anywhere in the world. They have only 1.6 and have been using it in many cars worldwide.

Even if its looks like its job of just reducing the displacement from existing 1.6 TDI, its like developing new engine and will require some R&D, time and money then they will have to extensively test it make sure the reliability. Now if they develop a new engine just for Indian market then is their any assurance that when and how they will recover the investment? How many Polo 1.5 TDI they can sell in India?

So there are chances that they don't transfer the tax benefit to the customer to recover the investment and efforts they paid while developing the 1.5 engine. So advantage of saving tax on smaller displacement is defeated here.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 22nd May 2013 at 11:32.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:42   #63
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

I don't really know if its a scoop, but I saw a Polo wearing a 1.6 badge. I highly doubt that its any scoop, I think more to be a work of an enthusiastic owner (?)

Any comments?
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:47   #64
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
but I saw a Polo wearing a 1.6 badge. I highly doubt that its any scoop, I think more to be a work of an enthusiastic owner (?)

Any comments?
What you saw must be the Polo 1.6 petrol version which now has been discontinued. This scooped TDI doesn't have engine litters/displacement mentioned on the boot or anywhere on the rest of the body.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:53   #65
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

To me, the govt. policy itself seems ill thought in the first place. For 4 cylinder engines, doesn't it seem natural that 1.6L capacity engines will be more common worldwide as compared to 1.5?
Unless that was the whole point of introducing this tax in the first place

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I don't really know if its a scoop, but I saw a Polo wearing a 1.6 badge. I highly doubt that its any scoop, I think more to be a work of an enthusiastic owner (?)
Any comments?
Should be the petrol 1.6 one I reckon.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:55   #66
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
What you saw must be the Polo 1.6 petrol version which now has been discontinued. This scooped TDI doesn't have engine litters/displacement mentioned on the boot or anywhere on the rest of the body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post

Should be the petrol 1.6 one I reckon.
Thanks a lot friends. Looks like I goofed up that, but thanks for the eye-opener.

Regards,
Saket
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:59   #67
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
VW doesn't have any 1.5 ltr engine in their stable anywhere in the world. They have only 1.6 and have been using it in many cars worldwide.
I am aware that they don't have an existing 1.5 TDI, which is why mentioned development costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Even if its looks like its job of just reducing the displacement from existing 1.6 TDI, its like developing new engine and will require some R&D, time and money then they will have to extensively test it make sure the reliability. Now if they develop a new engine just for Indian market then is their any assurance that when and how they will recover the investment? How many Polo 1.5 TDI they can sell in India?
Sure, it will take time and money. But are the costs so high as to negate the excise benefits? Unlikely, in my opinion. Note that Honda developed its 1.2 i-VTEC specifically for the Indian market when the Jazz was launched, and that engine is now being used on the Brio and the Amaze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
So there are chances that they don't transfer the tax benefit to the customer to recover the investment and efforts they paid while developing the 1.5 engine. So advantage of saving tax on smaller displacement is defeated here.
Reducing costs by saving on excise is valuable in its own right, because it gives them greater margins at any given price. Whether they pass on the excise benefits to the customer is a separate business decision, based on the price-versus-volume trade-off.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 12:03   #68
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Frankly, I would not mind paying 1L more for the DSG box in this one.. Admittedly, it will be a niche offering, but the diesel auto hatch segment is absolutely virgin territory today. Anyone who comes in first may get a significant competitive advantage.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 12:06   #69
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Exciting stuff.

In a car that is about 80kilos lighter, you are going to need very grippy rubber combined with Traction Control to be able to handle the power and torque. Not to forget, ESP too. It will be interesting to see how balanced the Polo will feel with the extra weight up front.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 12:27   #70
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Exciting stuff.

In a car that is about 80kilos lighter, you are going to need very grippy rubber combined with Traction Control to be able to handle the power and torque. Not to forget, ESP too. It will be interesting to see how balanced the Polo will feel with the extra weight up front.
I agree - my personal experience of the Polo D Trendline (14" wheels) is that the front is already too heavy. Consequently, with anything more than 3people it has an uncomfortable pitching and heaving effect when falling into deep potholes or when coming off a big speedbreaker. As a result, the underbody (middle portion) is likely to suffer a hit.

VW has already identified this as an issue and is quietly adding a spacer (I think) to all Polo D front shockers to limit the 'bottoming out' feeling. Makes me wonder how such a basic 'flaw' can get missed out!

Add more weight for the 1.6D and they will HAVE to be more insightful than adding a simple spacer.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 13:19   #71
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Dear VW, we don't need DSG or Automatic gearboxes.

From day one of Polo launch, we only want 1.2 TSi & 1.5/1.6 TDi engines in Polo with Manual gearboxes at acceptable prices for this segment.
Rest success is already determined for their cars.
Dude, have you driven the Polo GT TSI with DSG? I used to exactly think like you. But one TD and I was completely blown away. All myths shattered. The DSG is a revelation. I think this is the best combo for Polo GT TSI to truely unleash the potential of TSI engine, even better than having manual tranny. VW has done best for Polo GT TSI by mating it with DSG.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 14:43   #72
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

In the meanwhile the POLO facelift is spied;

Name:  14234291611315168856.jpg
Views: 5489
Size:  59.2 KB

Changes will remain minor like redesigned front bumper & air intake, some interior changes expected too.

Source: http://www.worldcarfans.com/11305215...ly-undisguised
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Old 22nd May 2013, 14:55   #73
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contrapunto View Post
Frankly, I would not mind paying 1L more for the DSG box in this one.. Admittedly, it will be a niche offering, but the diesel auto hatch segment is absolutely virgin territory today. Anyone who comes in first may get a significant competitive advantage.

250nm and a DSG in a diesel hatch ,delicious as it sounds unfortunately it seems unlikely. The DSG will push the cost of this already expensive hatch to astonishing levels so i really doubt VW will offer a DSG with the diesel variant.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 15:40   #74
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

1.6 TDI Polo is a welcome move, but I doubt if they will name it the GTD. By VW naming convention, itís the diesel equivalent of GTI. From what I have noticed they give the GTI/GTD moniker only to very well-deserving cars, but the name GT is used freely on convenience.

This could be a lift and shift from the Vento, or the 90ps variant which is currently sold in markets like the UK. To differentiate from the regular Polo, they may just name it the GT TDI.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 20:06   #75
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Default re: VW Polo 1.6L GT TDI coming EDIT: Now launched

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
1.6 TDI Polo is a welcome move, but I doubt if they will name it the GTD. By VW naming convention, itís the diesel equivalent of GTI. From what I have noticed they give the GTI/GTD moniker only to very well-deserving cars, but the name GT is used freely on convenience.

This could be a lift and shift from the Vento, or the 90ps variant which is currently sold in markets like the UK. To differentiate from the regular Polo, they may just name it the GT TDI.
Thats exactly what they will do. 106hp in a car with the 'GTD' monicker is almost an insult IMO..even if its a hatch. The GTD ,if it ever makes it here in the Polo avatar wont have anywhere south of 120bhp and im being conservative with the numbers. For now, Polo GT TDI it is.
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