Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th June 2014, 14:24   #1486
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,689
Thanked: 338 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

No matter what they do with the design, unless they tune the engine better & change the gearing the car will not sell. Even if they make these changes it will take a continuous & focussed marketing strategy to get this point across to buyer's.
amit is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2014, 20:21   #1487
BHPian
 
NFS2024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 455
Thanked: 58 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
No matter what they do with the design, unless they tune the engine better & change the gearing the car will not sell. Even if they make these changes it will take a continuous & focussed marketing strategy to get this point across to buyer's.
Absolutely agree to this point. Having driven it for 10k km, I can vouch for this point.
NFS2024 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2014, 23:23   #1488
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 197
Thanked: 208 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
No matter what they do with the design, unless they tune the engine better & change the gearing the car will not sell.
I'm assuming you're talking about the diesel version. I have the 1.2 petrol version, nothing wrong with the engine tuning/gearing. it is as responsive as any reasonable person would wish for in city traffic. I drove a diesel Punto 2012 in Italy recently, and there was nothing to complain about there either, but maybe they do it differently for the Indian market. (Fuel quality is inferior in India, and the Punto is heavier than the Swift.)
rsidd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 12:12   #1489
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,548
Thanked: 1,718 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
Updates from the press conference;
  • Chrysler and Fiat to complement each other. Will operate alongside new Fiat network & will have separate dealerships as well
  • New Punto & Linea from 2014 ! Existing Linea will also be sold as Linea Classic... New Linea will get 1.6MJD and 1.4 Turbo Petrol
  • FIAT will also bring performance brand Abarth to India.. woo hoo..!!
  • Jeep will launch Wrangler and Grand Cherokee in second half of 2013 as CBU. 2 compact locally made SUVs in 2014
  • Fiat-Chrysler targets 5% mktshare in India by 2015
  • New compact car range from Fiat coming soon for India and the world. Will target Alto-Eon segment.
  • 9 new cars for India over next 4 to 5 years. 5 from Fiat (includes new gen Punto/Linea). 4 from Jeep
  • Fiat will also launch a compact UV with a 1.4L petrol & 1.3L Diesel
  • Fiat India will have distribution control
  • Jeep will have 32 dealers in 25 cities & Fiat will have 126 dealers in 112 cities
Quoting the entire original post from December 2012.
18+ months gone since the post. What is the update?

New refreshed Linea and Linea classic launched. What is the response? Close to no change in sales except for a slight jump during launch which may have included the sale of discontinued or old stock at high discounts.

Other than this, where is the small car or the compact UV or the Jeeps or the compact Jeep SUV or the 126 dealers or the 9 new cars or the...
The list goes on

We have been talking about it for more than 100 pages on this thread and in 18+ months how much running has Fiat done?

That should sum up Fiat's attitude and the frustration we feel as probable buyers
They are not sure if they are running a 100 metre sprint or a marathon. And they keep walking around expecting a lot of applause where newer entrants enter the race and outperform by a huge distance

For any product to succeed a buzz needs to be created and sustained. This can be doen only for the short term. It cannot be sustained for 18+ months, where at the end of it they are only launching refreshed versions and no real new launches to be seen yet

Last edited by selfdrive : 26th June 2014 at 12:17. Reason: Added to rant
selfdrive is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 13:15   #1490
BHPian
 
sriramr9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 191
Thanked: 40 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
For any product to succeed a buzz needs to be created and sustained.
Heard Upgraded Punto is scheduled to be launched this Aug 2014. But not a hint of it in newspapers ad's or TV ad's. Poor strategy again
sriramr9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 13:35   #1491
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 197
Thanked: 208 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
New refreshed Linea and Linea classic launched. What is the response? Close to no change in sales except for a slight jump during launch which may have included the sale of discontinued or old stock at high discounts.
Fiat sales in Nov 2012: 270
Fiat sales in Dec 2012: 369
Fiat sales in 2014: avg approx 1000/month

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Other than this, where is the small car or the compact UV or the Jeeps or the compact Jeep SUV or the 126 dealers or the 9 new cars or the...
The list goes on
The dealers are in and growing. The new cars are on their way. The time frame cited was 4-5 years. Not 18 months. However, 3 of the 9 should be around by year-end (24 months): the new Linea, new Punto, Avventura. Possibly also the Abarth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
That should sum up Fiat's attitude and the frustration we feel as probable buyers
It sums up the latter, yes, and frankly it's unreasonable frustration. Nothing in the post you quoted, except the small car, is refuted by what happened later. In those 18 months, Fiat sales have more than doubled. Volkswagen sales, meanwhile, have halved with a very comparable portfolio (Polo, Vento, plus some cars that may as well not exist). Skoda is now less than half what it was. Skoda Fabia has gone out of the market. Chevrolet, Renault, even Tata have all fallen by at least 30-40%.

What was your point again?
rsidd is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 14:50   #1492
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,548
Thanked: 1,718 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsidd View Post
Fiat sales in Nov 2012: 270
Fiat sales in Dec 2012: 369
Fiat sales in 2014: avg approx 1000/month
Fiat marketshare in May 2014 analysis - 0.39%
Second last in that list. Behind Skoda, Datsun, Nissan, Chevy, Renault, everyone other than Mitsubishi
Agreed, they were last in Dec 2012, there is improvement. from last place to second last in 18 months.
From 0.19% to 0.39% at the halfway mark, when 2015 target is 5%
Is it enough? If it is, I would be worried!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsidd View Post
The dealers are in and growing. The new cars are on their way. The time frame cited was 4-5 years. Not 18 months. However, 3 of the 9 should be around by year-end (24 months): the new Linea, new Punto, Avventura. Possibly also the Abarth.
Fiat caffes. Great initiative
New cars will be here. Good
Any buzz created or sustained? I dont think so. Bad
Dealers the same as those from Tata. For example, Pandit Auto in Pune. Downright Ugly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsidd View Post
Volkswagen sales, meanwhile, have halved with a very comparable portfolio (Polo, Vento, plus some cars that may as well not exist). Skoda is now less than half what it was. Skoda Fabia has gone out of the market. Chevrolet, Renault, even Tata have all fallen by at least 30-40%.
VAG (Both VW and Skoda) have their own issues, typically bordering on arrogance. Fiat is too dear for me to compare to VAG. If I were to compare to some other manufacturer, it would not be VW.
Now that you brought it in, look at the engine line up for VW and that of Fiat.
Yes Tjet. so yes, TSI. but yes, also GT TDI. where is the 1.6 MJD?

The other manufacturers have too much variety in their lineup to be comparable till Fiat brings in competitors in those segments. Such as Duster for example (3300+ units by its own, if I may add). Datsun Go (2000+ units I think?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsidd View Post
What was your point again?
Well my point was about trying. You see the effort from Tata, VW, Renault. Maybe the results are not there to be seen and may never be seen as the market evolves.
My complaint is about the direction and magnitude of efforts put in compared to the competition. Especially in terms of the potential. And if these efforts are being made, why is it not visible to the public.
If I have to explain any more, perhaps you are not the target audience anyway. Let me leave it at that

Edit: and yes, I did mean to thank you for your post. It wasnt an accidental click!

Last edited by selfdrive : 26th June 2014 at 15:05. Reason: In the post
selfdrive is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 15:38   #1493
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,689
Thanked: 338 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Heard Upgraded Punto is scheduled to be launched this Aug 2014. But not a hint of it in newspapers ad's or TV ad's. Poor strategy again
The upgraded Punto like the Linea will do nothing substantial for Fiat. The market gets excited about refreshed models only if the original is a blockbuster. A Swift or Dzire upgrade will result in excitement among buyer's. For flops like Punto, only an all new model will generate some excitement.
amit is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 15:53   #1494
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 197
Thanked: 208 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I guess my point is, if you compare 2014 figures with late 2012 figures, some (Maruti, Hyundai) are about the same, several have plummeted, and only three have clearly gained: Honda, Nissan, and Fiat. And unlike the others, Fiat has done it on the basis of the same two models it was selling in 2012. Fiat's worst month in the last 1 year (Dec 2013) saw more than twice the sales of Dec 2012. Give them some credit. And if they haven't rushed into new launches, I am willing to think it is because they don't want to launch lemons.
rsidd is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 20:55   #1495
BHPian
 
nim_peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 184
Thanked: 98 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I feel their business delivery model is very poor, I mean the Design to Delivery time. Looking at the way IT industry works with LEAN, Sigma and other stuffs, they all look to make the process more efficient and reduce cycle time. If we look at other manufacturers, they have better cycle, they are always on the move, bringing face lifts and upgrades. If they don't have anything else, introduce a special edition with some sticker work and it works to an extent as long as the cycle ends and a new cycle starts where they can concentrate on something else.

FIAT on the other hand has very long cycle times. In case of Punto, apart from 90hp, I don't think there was any upgrade from the time of launch. I don't remember anything for Linea as well from the launch, please correct me if I missed anything. They have to bring frequent upgrades/changes to their product to keep customer interested. Samsung Galaxy and iPhone can be a good comparison. 5 years cycle time is too long in my opinion. They should try to bring it to 9 months to 1 year. Shorter cycle time means, they have more iterations to find a sweet spot, something VW is doing. Looking at the engines they have tried out, Petrol 1.2,1.6,1.2 TSI. Diesel 1.2,1.6, 1.5 soon. Fiat is yet to bring the 1.6 MJD, rumors of which started years back. Atleast the 1.4 Tjet makes it to Linea, so that is good. FIAT fans don't want to see good cars like Linea and Punto to go down like Palio. Probably that is why they are frustrated(or scared).
nim_peter is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2014, 20:59   #1496
BHPian
 
vipul_singh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NOIDA / Lucknow
Posts: 396
Thanked: 215 Times
Default

This thread was started in dec'12. Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnn...
vipul_singh is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2014, 00:38   #1497
BHPian
 
WorkingGuru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 175
Thanked: 206 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

The Linea (which used to top the features list 4 years ago) may still be good in 10 other ways, but it is a sluggish car. Theres NO denying that FIAT is guilty of depriving us of the 1.6mjd. Apart from that, in one hand they improved the interiors, but on the other, they've ruined the external design of the new Linea.

I honestly don't like Maruti at all (Why? Later, in another thread.) BUT eventually it was them who got us the AMT from Magneti Marelli! Next it is TATA who's getting AMT not only for its Bolt & Zest, but also the NANO!

May 2014 Sales : 800 units.
Linea 229
Punto 571

If FIAT isn't ready to understand even now. Then obviously even the FIAT fans will start looking elsewhere! FIAT should bring in the 1.6mjd, the AMT and the Bravo - Not just a facelifted Punto! Atleast bring us the 1.4T-Jet in the Avventura!

EoD as consumers we seem to have a plathora of choices that are coming up for us to choose from. Why should we break our heads as to what FIAT should do? If they want to earn, they'll find their way.
WorkingGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2014, 09:35   #1498
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,689
Thanked: 338 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingGuru View Post
FIAT should bring in the 1.6mjd and the Bravo - Not just a facelifted Punto! Atleast bring us the 1.4T-Jet in the Avventura!
Fiat has done well not to get the Bravo here, it has absolutely no market in India. Over here people buy Amaze, Dzire & Xcent because they believe these cars are sedan's. Car's like the 3 mentioned plus Ertiga & Ecosport will be cheaper then Bravo. What would an average Indian buy?
amit is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2014, 10:32   #1499
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 197
Thanked: 208 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Fiat has done well not to get the Bravo here, it has absolutely no market in India.
Absolutely. And if proof is required, there's the Honda Jazz. People just saw it as an expensive hatch.

Fiat's options are limited. There is no Fiat-badged sedan in developed markets, and their other badges are more expensive. The Fiat Panda or new Uno will not be significantly cheaper than the Punto, if at all. Developing an all-new car just for India is a risky proposition with low margins. I think Fiat has decided to be a niche player and not go for the volume market (their MD said as much sometime ago), which is why they have abandoned plans of bringing in anything below Punto.

I see the "footfalls" theory expounded a lot on Team-BHP -- ie, you need one volume mover and then the other stuff will move because people in the showroom will see it and be tempted. But several other brands -- Renault, Ford, etc -- have one or two best-sellers but it is not helping their other cars. People enter a showroom already having some idea of what they want -- it's not like shopping for groceries. Meanwhile, a high-volume low-margin car may not be particularly good for the bottom line. Fiat's bottom line in India is reportedly fine right now, thanks to exports, engine sales, and the Tata JV.
rsidd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2014, 10:58   #1500
Senior - BHPian
 
Vik0728's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,494
Thanked: 1,511 Times
Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post

This thread was started in dec'12. Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnn...
Puh..talk about it vipul_singh.

And all this while, what doea FIAT have to offer, one facelifted Linea. All due respect to the Linea owners but I honestly feel it was 'All for Nothing'.

It took Fiat 2 years to understand & figure out that their products were neither brilliant to drive nor great to own (T-jet is the Saving grace for FIAT). By the time they realized that their flagship model was outdated, competition had vanished into the horizon.
Then came the much awaited & anticipated Linea Facelift. Again, Fiat had let its loyal fans down with only Cosmetic changes, which in my opinion should have been a part of Linea always. There were no changes to the engines & drivetrains.
You just cannot offer a Stunning Petrol Engine and a Boring Diesel Engine combination on your flagship model, PERIOD.

And now, the Punto is going the same way. I really love the way Fiat cars are designed but hate the way they drive (again not the T-Jet).
If not anything, Fiat should have atleast given a better gear ratios to the Linea (MJD) & 90HP variants. This would have surely improved their fun factor & done justice to the 'Sport' tag (90 HP Punto).

If today I am driving a GT and not a 90 HP Punto, it is only for this reason.

P.S - I am not a Fiat basher, on the contrary I still stare at a Punto that passes by & think it is still the hottest looking hatch in India.

Last edited by Vik0728 : 27th June 2014 at 11:03.
Vik0728 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fiat Abarth 595 Competizione revealed on Fiat India's website damager21 The Indian Car Scene 50 17th August 2015 10:42
Volkswagen's Future (US) Product Strategy Revealed - and what it means for us crackingride The Indian Car Scene 23 24th October 2012 00:31
FIAT kicks off its new branding strategy. amit The Indian Car Scene 23 5th February 2008 14:17
FIAT's new strategy + Linea confirmed Mpower The Indian Car Scene 128 21st May 2007 19:57


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:01.

Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks