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Old 21st March 2013, 16:45   #331
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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Looks like you didn't read first line of my previous comment.
But seriously, I never realized that T-Jet is discontinued, I always considered Linea means T-Jet.

My cousin is still holding Dzire, even when he has finalized the deal to resale it and have received advanced amount.
1. Welcome to team-bhp.

2. T-Jet was the turbo petrol version of Linea, the only option other than Skoda Laura if you needed a performance turbo petrol. Please read the official review for more details.

3. Wrong smiley. As I understand from your post, your cousin is cheating someone, right? Taking even money advance and not giving up the car?

4. Let's get back to topic now, shall we?
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:07   #332
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
...Someone said a tuned (pre-owned) OHC with aftermarket turbos and headers and FFE and blah, blah is a better choice than a factory tuned Abarth hot hatch with 3 years and 1,00,000 km warranty (this is what they offer as standard in UK and other countries, not counting extended warranty periods)...
I never said its better. Just the affordability part.Ofcourse a stock factory fitted 180bhp machine is anyday better than a after-market tuned one. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that.

Please re-read my post before making such a comment. You hurt my feelings



Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
...But the thing is many indians miss some simple point. Fiat launched TJET, a good performing turbocharged petrol car for a price lesser than most of the cars in its segment.
Very rare that we indians get to drive such good cars. But we neglected it. I know there must be some reasons, but the TJET is still a mean machine...
Agreed.

P.S : Never expected my comment about tuned OHC would go haywire this way. My bad, next time would restrict those views/discussions only to relevant threads. Apologies!!!

Last edited by SoumenD : 21st March 2013 at 17:33.
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:19   #333
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Talking Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Guys, let us come back to the point. Let us discuss about upcoming FIAT products than FIAT India altogether. Since ece2k2 posted the scoop Abarth we can feel the heat of 185BHP in this thread.

It is unbelievable that none other than ece2k2 could catch the Abarth and post more info/pics.

Kind request to all BHPains in that part of country to open their eyes and ears (switch on your Mobile/point-shoot camera)whenever you venture out.

Cheers!

Vinu
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:56   #334
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
If you consider the "sheet metal" as build quality or safety than what more can be said. If you are so confident than please open the door pads and measure the inner metal thickness of Linea and Vento. I am confident about Vento's build quality since I have a friend who owns ICE shop and I keep observing inner parts of the cars when they come for getting ICEd and have seen many naked Vento, Linea, Punto etc.

About the bonnet and boot lid, doesn't matter how heavy or light they are. Because ultimately they gonna get ripped if any mishap happens. Another point to be noted is the pedestrian safety norms. Vento is based on Polo which has scored 5 stars in the test. And the pedestrian safety norm is the reason behind soft/spongy type bonnet lid. You have Vento, press the bonnet in the middle, it will go down.

What actually matters for safety is the inner structure and crumple zones.


My cousin is still holding Dzire, even when he has finalized the deal to resale it and have received advanced amount.
Thanks for letting us know about the sheet metal thickness of vento et al. Great that with a naked eye you could measure the thickness of metal of all the cars that came to ICE shop. It requires great amount of skill(robotic skills) that most of us here don't possess.
And how on earth the bonnet and boot lid don't matter as far as accidents are concerned. All automotive manufacturers have a lesson to learn here that anyways parts are going to be ripped off in case of a mishap so why unnecessarily give quality parts.
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Old 21st March 2013, 18:49   #335
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Mod Note: Please stay on-topic and avoid personal attacks and confrontation.

Going forward all fanboy and anti-fanboy posts will be deleted and members infracted. Please refrain from continuing to post on sheet metal thickness of Vento and other unrelated topics.
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Old 21st March 2013, 22:49   #336
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
"The new Punto & Linea can NOT be compared to the old ones (before the GC increment) in terms of handling. There is quite a lot of difference. I wanted to buy a Linea, but was so disappointed with the poor handling after increasing the GC. Even the Punto is NOT in the previous league, but it's better than Linea as the difference in handling is NOT very obvious and settled for it" !
This is actually one single reason for me not convinced about increasing GC in my Linea. But, when I test drove the Linea 2012 when it was launched, I couldn't find too much of difference with respect to handling comparing with my 2011 Linea.

If your friend was so keen on Linea, he could have bought it and then switched over to the Old GC.

I am eagerly waiting for the new Linea and Punto. I wish they go back to the earlier GC.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 10:03   #337
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Just adding more fuel to the pricing speculation. Out of curiosity, I was checking how much is the difference between UK spec Abarth Punto EsseEsse, and a regular Punto MultiJet 75HP, compared to Indian prices.

Punto MultiJet 75HP = ~10,000 pounds on road price in UK. Converted price into rupees = ~8,20,000 INR, which matches with Bangalore OTR price of 75HP Emotion.

Abarth Punto EsseEsse = ~18,000 pounds on-road price in UK. Converted price into rupees = ~14,70,000 INR. I am guessing it will be priced similar to this in Bangalore.

Some more information on the Abarth policies in UK, according to my colleague who used to own this car in the UK some years back, and some by fishing out information on the web :

- Dealerships are separate and independent of regular Fiats. Showrooms are known as Studios (for some weird reason), and are not related to / part of Fiat showrooms. Servicing facilities and staff are independent of Fiat facilities, and nowhere will you find reference to the Fiat logo anywhere in Abarth.

- Warranty policy is typically 3 years or 60,000 miles (~1,00,000 km). He didn't know of any extended warranty period given free at purchase time, like what car makers typically offer here in India free or at a lower price. Extended warranty was offered optionally and costed high for Abarths, in the range of 1,000 pounds or so. He was saying many customers don't take extended warranty there because of the steep pricing.

- Abarths are configured to use only Petrol with RON(Octane) 95 and above. Not sure how Fiat is planning on handling this fuel issue here in India. Quoting a portion from the owner's manual of Abarth Punto.
http://www.abarthisti.co.uk/manuals/...s-Handbook.pdf

Quote:
MUST BE READ!

REFUELLING
Only refuel with unleaded petrol with octane rating (RON) not less than 95 conforming to the European specification EN 228.
- There is no diesel version of Abarth in UK. They only offer 2 versions of the T-Jet turbo petrol (165bhp and 180bhp).

- fact : 500 Abarth sells far more than Punto Abarth / EsseEsse

- Custom configuration options are massive - buyer is allowed to specify car color choice, stripe/mirror colors, alloy wheel pattern, interior upholstery type and color, opt for factory-fitted add-ons such as electric panorama sunroof, front armrest, body kits etc at extra costs.

Last edited by KarthikK : 22nd March 2013 at 10:14.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 10:18   #338
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
Punto MultiJet 75HP = ~10,000 pounds on road price in UK. Converted price into rupees = ~8,20,000 INR, which matches with Bangalore OTR price of 75HP Emotion.

Abarth Punto EsseEsse = ~18,000 pounds on-road price in UK. Converted price into rupees = ~14,70,000 INR. I am guessing it will be priced similar to this in Bangalore.
Keeping this price difference in mind, FIAT can play its cars quite well with respecting to pricing the EsseEsse in the range of 10-12 lacs exshowroom, subject to Abarth being locally manufactured. Fiat can indeed go a bit aggressive on price and make it more affordable

Quote:
- Dealerships are separate and independent of regular Fiats. Showrooms are known as Studios (for some weird reason), and are not related to / part of Fiat showrooms. Servicing facilities and staff are independent of Fiat facilities, and nowhere will you find reference to the Fiat logo anywhere in Abarth.
In India for sure they will sold alongside in the existing FIAT showroom. Since the volume for FIAT products and Abarth are anyways lower, it should be manageable. But what matters is proper training of technicians to handle the Abarth.

Quote:
- Warranty policy is typically 3 years or 60,000 miles (~1,00,000 km). He didn't know of any extended warranty period given free at purchase time, like what car makers typically offer here in India free or at a lower price. Extended warranty was offered optionally and costed high for Abarths, in the range of 1,000 pounds or so. He was saying many customers don't take extended warranty there because of the steep pricing.
Forget about the extended warranty, even if the regular warranty is priced at 80000 ~ 1000 pounds, people will be more than happy to forego warranty itself. So either 3 year - 100000 kms warranty will hold good or the extended warranty might me made more feasible with 15-20K price for the additional year.

Quote:
- Abarths are configured to use only Petrol with RON(Octane) 95 and above. Not sure how Fiat is planning on handling this fuel issue here in India. Quoting a portion from the owner's manual of Abarth Punto.
http://www.abarthisti.co.uk/manuals/...s-Handbook.pdf
Now this is some cause for concern. There is room for detuning the engine now due to the fuel quality.

Quote:
- There is no diesel version of Abarth in UK. They only offer 2 versions of the T-Jet turbo petrol (165bhp and 180bhp).
In India, people like the dirtier fuel a lot more, but I doubt FIAT getting a diesel version here.

Quote:
- fact : 500 Abarth sells far more than Punto Abarth / EsseEsse
If EsseEsse is a success, then the 500 might see the light of the day too.

Quote:
- Custom configuration options are massive - buyer is allowed to specify car color choice, stripe/mirror colors, alloy wheel pattern, interior upholstery type and color, install factory-fitted add-ons such as electric panorama sunroof, front armrest, body kits etc at extra costs.
With the volumes here, none of these will be configurable. What we might get is the fully Kitted version or the stripped version
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Old 22nd March 2013, 10:49   #339
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
Punto MultiJet 75HP = ~10,000 pounds on road price in UK. Converted price into rupees = ~8,20,000 INR, which matches with Bangalore OTR price of 75HP Emotion.

Abarth Punto EsseEsse = ~18,000 pounds on-road price in UK. Converted price into rupees = ~14,70,000 INR. I am guessing it will be priced similar to this in Bangalore.
In case of the Abarth, direct conversion may not be an accurate indicator (of the pricing) if they go by the CBU route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK
Abarths are configured to use only Petrol with RON(Octane) 95 and above. Not sure how Fiat is planning on handling this fuel issue here in India. Quoting a portion from the owner's manual of Abarth Punto.
Even cars like Jetta TSI recommends 95 RON petrol, and I believe these manufacturers would have done their homework while entering a market with inferior fuel quality (atleast thatís what the VW dealer told me when enquired about the Jetta TSI)
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Old 22nd March 2013, 10:52   #340
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
In case of the Abarth, direct conversion may not be an accurate indicator (of the pricing) if they go by the CBU route.

Even cars like Jetta TSI recommends 95 RON petrol, and I believe these manufacturers would have done their homework while entering a market with inferior fuel quality (atleast thatís what the VW dealer told me when enquired about the Jetta TSI)
True, all estimations of pricing is out of the window if its CBU.

They would definitely adjust the ignition timing for the fuel quality. But how much of detuning is required to keep a safer bet on the engine is anybody's guess. I see 150-160 bhp mark from 185 bhp.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 11:09   #341
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Just getting the Abarth variants may not work!!

The need of the hour for Fiat with Abarth range of products would be advertising the performance and floor the people who yearn for performance machines. IF they let know what exactly these machines mean to prospective customers, people may still buy it keeping perceived ASS woes at bay. I still know of so many automobile enthusiasts who keep a tab on many automobiles and never knew that TJet was a petrol Turbo. Can anything beat this?

Just look at the SX4 diesel advertisement! Its so brilliantly made. They show the diesel variant as if it were a sports car. Most viewers would be very impressed by it. All this while Manza and Linea diesels were already there and similar performance with the same engine. Compare that with the TJet ad. If the SX4 ad was of TJet, I am sure TJet would have been sold in greater numbers.

Fiats first line of advertisements for Abarth products should be spot on and reach the intended people. If they manage to do that, they can find people who would be ready to pour in whatever number of lakhs it could cost.

In all this, Fiat shouldnt get carried away by Abarth and actually concentrate on winning customer's hearts (or minds?) back and improving sales of the existing Punto/Linea which should be their bread and butter!
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Old 22nd March 2013, 11:10   #342
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Why do I have this strong feeling that Abarth Punto in India will be Punto Emotion with a 1.4 Tjet, producing only 114 PS and a 1.6 MJD producing only 105 PS (and disc brakes all around)?

My reasoning:
1. Linea is expected with the same tuning
2. older Linea Tjet also had its engine detuned, most likely due to fuel quality reasons
3. Cost: as far as I know, 1.4 Tjet with 114 PS does not have Multiair technology
4. Competitive pricing: Imagine an Abarth Punto Tjet and MJD costing 20% above top-end Fiat Punto
5. Economies of scale: everything is locally made in Abarth Punto, except the logos, alloys, suspensions and possibly engine and gearbox.
6. Lessons learnt from other manufacturers' mistakes: price a product high and find no takers even with massive discounts. Price a product low and then slowly increase the price and see the demand still not declining.
7. providing customizing options on Abarth for that miniscule number of sales, makes no business sense. Hence, give fixed features (that is, top end Fiat Punto's).

Last edited by rohanjf : 22nd March 2013 at 11:12.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 11:28   #343
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I somehow feel this isn't a Fiat test car. The biggest pointer to this is the Coimbatore temp. plates. Fiat does not have any operations out of TN and any vehicle registered to Fiat India would have MH plates.

Secondly, Fiat has always said that the Abarth will be localised and not a CBU. For them to directly start with the Esseesee version somehow does not seem right.

This is most likely a Jayem Auto car. I tend to agree with rohanjf's post above.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 22nd March 2013 at 11:31.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 11:28   #344
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Why do I have this strong feeling that Abarth Punto in India will be Punto Emotion with a 1.4 Tjet, producing only 114 PS and a 1.6 MJD producing only 105 PS (and disc brakes all around)?
Though this can happen, the possibilites are lesser, heres the reasoning as to why?

Quote:
1. Linea is expected with the same tuning
The linea is expected with the same tuning would be the classic Linea (going forward) and the new generation Linea will be all new. they will need atleast the engine to differentiate between the two.

Quote:
2. older Linea Tjet also had its engine detuned, most likely due to fuel quality reasons
True, the older Tjet and the upcoming relaunched Tjet will be detuned due to fuel quality (presuming)

Quote:
3. Cost: as far as I know, 1.4 Tjet with 114 PS does not have Multiair technology
Yes, the Tjet will be more cost effective, but the differentiating factor would be the Multiair though for the new Generation Linea. But how ready is Fiat Powertrain India to manufacture it here is still a question mark. Importing will only shoot up the cost.

Quote:
4. Competitive pricing: Imagine an Abarth Punto Tjet and MJD costing 20% above top-end Fiat Punto
What Mr. Enrico mentioned was that they would not be providing a compromised Abarth. They are keen to provide the full Abarth experience. This was mention during the chat when we asked about the Kits.

Quote:
5. Economies of scale: everything is locally made in Abarth Punto, except the logos, alloys, suspensions and possibly engine and gearbox.
The gearbox and engine can be produced locally keeping in mind that the new generation Linea and the Jeep would anyways require these engines.

Quote:
6. Lessons learnt from other manufacturers' mistakes: price a product high and find no takers even with massive discounts. Price a product low and then slowly increase the price and see the demand still not declining.
A good strategy but how well it will work can only be seen over a period of time after the launch.

Quote:
providing customizing options on Abarth for that miniscule number of sales, makes no business sense. Hence, give fixed features (that is, top end Fiat Punto's).
Absolutely customization does not make business sense. But getting the top end version makes more sense to give that upmarket feel.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 14:04   #345
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Just getting the Abarth variants may not work!
Honestly, as an enthusiast, I don't care whether it works or not!

I'm just really, really happy that a high-performance machine could be made available at a price point that is accessible to us. How many of us can spend 50 lakhs on an EVO or 1 crore on an M3?

On the other hand, the Punto Abarth falls within the reach of a lot more people (even though the number is still small, it's 10X more than that for a 50 lakh car).

The Laura TSI didn't work.
The Linea T-Jet didn't work.
The Accord V6 didn't work.
The Palio 1.6 GTX didn't work.
The Getz CRDi didn't work.

As someone who loves 'MORE POWER' (said in the Tim Taylor way), I still celebrated all these cars
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