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Old 25th October 2013, 01:52   #856
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
... & now ACI have laid hands to the Wrangler 2.8L diesel mill. Please refer below link to their review:

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-rev...-361642,0.aspx

Lousy on-road, but ruler off road conditions. However, with a price tag of INR 30-35 Lacs would make it out of reach of many enthusiasts.
I agree with you CARDEEP. But, it's just going to be a brand builder, FIAT doesn't expect to have high sales figures from Jeep, not in the initial days atleast.
If you can wait for a couple of years, you will see an affordable Jeep on the Indian roads, may not be as good as the Wrangler, but will definitely be the best in its class.
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Old 25th October 2013, 08:26   #857
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by 21Archer84 View Post
I agree with you CARDEEP. But, it's just going to be a brand builder, FIAT doesn't expect to have high sales figures from Jeep, not in the initial days atleast.
If you can wait for a couple of years, you will see an affordable Jeep on the Indian roads, may not be as good as the Wrangler, but will definitely be the best in its class.
Even before that the prices should come down to around 25L once these are assembled in India, considering the import duties are very very high nowadays. If they can assemble the 2.8L diesel engine in India, that should further bring the prices down.

Similarly, the 2-door Wrangler should be a bit cheaper compared to this 4-door version.

But even so the Wrangler will remain a very niche product with its outright off-road bias. Its the Grand Cherokee and Cherokee which should garner more numbers, while the Wrangler remains more of a image building exercise to keep the strong off-roading heritage of the Jeep brand alive.
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Old 25th October 2013, 09:24   #858
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Its the Grand Cherokee and Cherokee which should garner more numbers, while the Wrangler remains more of a image building exercise to keep the strong off-roading heritage of the Jeep brand alive.
True, but if the Grand Cherokeeís price range is in the vicinity of 50 lakhs (or above), I doubt if there will be many takers. For that money, German players may have more appeal.
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Old 25th October 2013, 10:40   #859
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

^^ Well said vb-san. I too doubt Fiat can make the Grand Cherokee a success in Indian market with above said price tag. They can launch these products for building the brand in long term.
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Old 25th October 2013, 12:14   #860
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
True, but if the Grand Cherokee’s price range is in the vicinity of 50 lakhs (or above), I doubt if there will be many takers. For that money, German players may have more appeal.
True, there definitely are the German brands and Land Rover, but still the Jeep name means they will be able to sell quite a few cars in my view. I am not saying they will beat the Germans or Land Rover.

Other than the Jeep brand, the Gran Cherokee will have its agressive looks and the sheer size in its favor, compared to other cars in the 50L range like the Freelander, Q5 or X3. In front of the Grand Cherokee those cars will look almost puny.

The major issue with the Jeep range is the lack of small engines. Most of even the premium brands garner most of their sales from their 2L diesel engine variants. Jeep unfortunately doesnt have anything to match that, with the Wrangler coming with a 2.8L 4-cyl engine and the Grand Cherokee with a 3L V6 diesel engine.

But even so, with a little bit of marketing, I feel there will be enough takers for the Grand Cherokee in India.

Last edited by julupani : 25th October 2013 at 12:18.
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Old 25th October 2013, 14:02   #861
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

As it goes a Jeep Wrangler is sold for around $ 37,000 to 40,000 in the USA. By that yardstick with a US $ @ Rs. 62 odd the price comes to Rs. 22.5 Lakhs.
If it is sold in India around this price it will be an exclusive lifestyle segment thing never a serious off roader.

Knowing India, the unlimited version ( 4 Door ) would attract more takers here.
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Old 26th October 2013, 11:35   #862
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Day before yesterday spotted a LWB black Wrangler at the ideal colony signal in Kothrud, Pune. It was a chauffeur driven Wrangler. MH 12 JC somrthing was the registration.
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Old 5th November 2013, 14:07   #863
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Default All-new Fiat Linea due in 2015

Link to News Section

Italian car maker Fiat will replace the Linea with an all-new model come 2015. The car will be produced at Fiat's Turkish manufacturing facility, a factory that also builds the current generation version of the Linea. The 2015 Linea comes 8 years after the launch of the current generation version, an uncharacteristically long product timeline for a car in these times.

Name:  2014 Fiat Linea Facelift 1.jpg
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Note: Images of the 2014 Fiat Linea Facelift used in this report are illustrative in nature.

Until 2015, Fiat will make do with a facelifted version of the Linea, a car that has already been launched internationally, and one that will be launched in India early next year. Details of the all-new 2015 Linea remain sketchy for now. The car is said to retain the current model's size while adding new features and engine options. Expect a late 2014 unveil for the next-generation Linea.

The current Linea is based on the Punto platform. However, it remains to be seen as to which platform the next generation version of the Linea will adopt given the fact that the next-generation Punto will shift to the Panda platform. Therefore, it will be interesting to see the shape that the all-new Linea takes.

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The facelifted version of the Linea will be launched early next year in India and the car is likely to get a more powerful 1.6 liter Multijet turbo diesel engine. The 1.3 liter Multijet turbo diesel engine will be offered only on the Linea Classic model. Similarly, the 1.4 liter naturally aspirated petrol engine will power the Linea Classic while the 1.4 liter T-Jet motor will be offered on the Linea Facelift.

The facelifted Linea will get refreshed looks in the form of a new front grille and a revised rear end. The car's interiors will see a new dashboard, apart from other minor changes. The car is also likely to gain new features. The facelifted Linea will sit above the Linea Classic in terms of price and positioning while the regular Linea will be discontinued.

Source AutoNews

Last edited by JayPrashanth : 5th November 2013 at 14:08. Reason: News Link Added
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Old 5th November 2013, 14:37   #864
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

The older one definitely looks better
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Old 5th November 2013, 22:37   #865
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

The 1.6L diesel has been speculated to make it in the Linea since ages and now it may just be a little too late since Fiat has diluted the brand Linea by introducing the 'more affordable variants'. Given that the engine will only be available in the top end, I am not sure how many would be willing to shell out that much extra for it when the cheapest diesel Linea is available for 7.xxL. And not like the new Linea is a stunner from any angle either.

To add to Fiat's misery Honda might introduce the City with a diesel heart early next year which will only pull away the little enthusiasm that this 1.6L in the Linea might create.

After looking at Fiat's sorry strategy in India, I appreciate VW's strategy of introducing the newer engine blocks in the Vento and Polo and constantly adding features and refreshing their cars, given that no new cars are expected from their stable for a couple of years. On the other hand what Fiat does is launch a heavily stickered Punto 'Sport' and calls it 'all new' and waits for miracles. Where is the Punto T-Jet? Where are the highly localised Abarth variants?
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Old 6th November 2013, 09:04   #866
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I'm looking forward for the 1.6 mill, especially since it churns out 290Nm of torque and 105ps power. I want to know or rather have a feel of the 290Nm torque sitting on the drivers seat. Questions are already rising in my head.
Will the power delivery be linear? How will the gear ratio be? Will the clutch be heavy? etc etc

The new linea may not turn heads but it'll sure have the driver grinning. Honda engines IMHO cannot compete with FIAT engines (diesel only). Fiat has a bad strategy the whole cloud of a new independent company has gone with the wind, interest in the company has withered away. Blame it on the slow run of the economy or the top brass for their lackadaisical attitude FIAT has had its fair share of problems in India.

New interiors!
New engine!
New refreshed look!
As a linea fan I will definitely look forward for it.

Last edited by D'Artagnan : 6th November 2013 at 09:06.
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Old 6th November 2013, 09:59   #867
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

If not for the Punto Abarth, At least a Punto with the 1.4L T-Jet engine, 16 inch alloys and lowered suspension ( pre-2012 suspension set up at least ) and a price of about 8L OTR will find takers,well if the 9L VW Polo GT TSi can, this hot Punto definitely can too!

Come on FIAT, please act fast before the car itself turns dated and comes to a point where the engine is good, but the car is too old to be bought with any engine!
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:57   #868
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Fiat has multiple problems and I am not at all optimistic about any of their plans which can potentially create a turnaround story.

Build quality
Just better sheet metal quality will definately provide safety like we have seen in the Punto tree accident thread. But thats not enough to entice a buyer. Buyer does not buy a vehicle alone based on accident withstanding capability. They need to learn who do screw components better. A Swift can teach them a lesson here. the newer Swift is well screwed together inside and outside to hide or let people ignore the sheet metal or interior plastic quality.

Diet
They should understand the simple laws of physics that their cards need to lose weight as much as 15% to aid in FE. The Punto and Linea petrols (non Tjet) have the lowest FE in their respective segments. The cars are so heavy that its embarrasing when a i10 will shoot of the line right till 100 when the Punto and Linea still catch up. Heavy cars are not as flickable and fun on urban roads.

Engineering
Why couldnt they build a competant gearbox in the 1.3 MJD diesels where Maruti is flying high today primarily because of the same mill mated to a competant chassis and gearbox. Punto and Linea diesels are plain lazy cars. I believe a Swift DDis nearly beats the Punto 90hp.

Space
The linea and Punto are not as spacious inside as they look from outside. Lessons to be learnt from H badged cars. The Punto beats only the Swift and Polo I guess.

Dealership and Service network
Even Metro cities like Mumbai dont have enough dealers. All this adds to perceived and actual lower resale values as the demand for the car is dismal. Today a much inferior Indigo diesel sells quick in the used car market (eg: GTO's ex) than a truly pre-worshipped Fiat product.

Everyone looking at the Punto Tjet at 8 OTR. Well if it is launched it could sell at 8 OTR but only after heavy discounts like the Tjet assuming the current Tjet sells at around 9.00 OTR for mid variant after discounts. Do note that the 1.4 mill will not get excise benifits that the Polo GT TSI enjoys. Do we think it will generate volumes of 1000+ per month. I highly doubt.

And the facelift is bad. The current Linea looks really good from all angles.

Last edited by dipen : 6th November 2013 at 10:58.
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:27   #869
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I believe Fiat creates cars that are more suited for highways than city driving. The cars are heavy, compared to their counterparts. This is why Punto and Linea are the best handlers in their respective classes. Moreover, the gearboxes are also more suited for highways than city driving.

This is definitely not a selling point for Fiat, especially when test drives are done within the city (by most people) and competition performs much better. Fiat loses out big time because of sluggish response, plus bigger turning radii.

Also, when it comes to interiors, most people go by what they see. Most people are fine with interiors with great look and feel that vibrate after 25k KMs, than poor looking interiors that do not vibrate even after 1L KMs.

Bulky outside but cramped inside: I think this has something to do with occupant protection during side collisions. I don't have any proof though :-)

As far as Punto 1.4 Tjet is concerned, I think it is possible to sell it at an ex-showroom price of 8L with a manual gearbox (considering the 24% excise duty), when Polo with similar build quality and features sells with DSG at the same price with 12% excise duty. But expecting 8L OTR would probably be asking too much from Fiat
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Old 6th November 2013, 12:04   #870
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
Fiat has multiple problems and I am not at all optimistic about any of their plans which can potentially create a turnaround story.

Build quality
......

Diet
........

Engineering
.........

Space
.........

Dealership and Service network
.........
On build quality I will disagree. A few parts dont seem to be made to perfect measurements and dont fit will. But if you see they are all very specific things, like the glovebox lid, or steering cover. Also you can say interior plastic quality is not upto mark. These problems need to be addressed and with the new Linea they seem to have done that.

But the build quality is actually great. I drive a 4 year old Punto and my brother drives a 3 year old one, and there is not a single rattle or squeak. The interiors barely feel like they have aged.

I would much rather not have the FIAT's go on a diet. The slightly heaviness is part of the package. All cars need not be light flickable and nimble. That slight heaviness, heavy steering fat tyres etc all contribute to make a FIAT what it is. If the FIAT becomes just like a Hyundai or Maruti, why would I want one?? The gearbox could change to make for a bit better acceleration, but dont want it to have an ultra light feel like a Hyundai or Maruti.

As for interior space, would love to have more. But dont want to compromise on safety and most of all dont want to compromise on style either. If I have to sacrifice a bit of space for style, I am fine with it. Again, I am buying a FIAT because they are really beautiful to look at, both inside and outside.

Personally never had a problem with the service experience. Service network is also improving slowly but surely.

At the end of the day, I want a FIAT to be a FIAT and not something else. They have to keep their USP, because that is their biggest strength. If they become just like every other car maker, be it a Honda or a Hyundai or a Maruti, why would one want a FIAT??
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