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Old 21st May 2014, 16:08   #1351
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
Fiat is not able to bring in the 1.6MJD and you're wishing for the Multi-Air and the Multijet II engine here in India.
No harm in asking for it right? Besides; the Multi Jet has also been around for a while now. Time to move on. When you are paying so much, you do want the best bang for the buck right?

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Originally Posted by desdemona View Post
The T-jet is the best petrol engine in this market, south of 15lakhs and you want it ditched? Could we have the T-jet with MultiAir electro-hydraulic valve timing?
I agree that its the best but not from a economy stand point which is what our market is all about. The Multi Air turbo is the replacement for the T Jet. You have to remember that Fiat India have three petrol engines, out of which only the T Jet is worth talking about.

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The 90 hp MJD is ample for this crossover in this market.
Really? I find it quite a dud on the so called "Sports" Grande Punto. Lets not talk about tuned versions.

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Originally Posted by mchanna View Post
There are also rumors about 1.5MJD for Avventura.
A lot of folks have said there is a possibility of a 1.2 T Jet and maybe the existence of 1.5mjd. Do any of these engines exist anywhere on Fiat's engine portfolio? I don't recall any which basically means no such engine is going to make it here anytime soon.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 21st May 2014 at 16:14.
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Old 21st May 2014, 16:44   #1352
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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I agree that its the best but not from a economy stand point which is what our market is all about.
It is not true that T-Jet is fuel efficient.
While in city it returns 12-13, on highway if driven within the speed limit of 80-100 it returns mindblowing 18-19 KMPL.

Considering all the drivability factors it returns quite a healthy mileage.
But honestly on highways it requires a immense patient to control your ego and emotions to not to drive beyond 100 ;-)
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Old 21st May 2014, 16:52   #1353
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
No harm in asking for it right? Besides; the Multi Jet has also been around for a while now. Time to move on. When you are paying so much, you do want the best bang for the buck right?

A lot of folks have said there is a possibility of a 1.2 T Jet and maybe the existence of 1.5mjd. Do any of these engines exist anywhere on Fiat's engine portfolio? I don't recall any which basically means no such engine is going to make it here anytime soon.
Certainly I agree with you, there is no harm in asking for the best technology in their cars in India, but realistically you know it is a distant dream at present.

Fiat does not have a 1.5MJD or a 1.2Tjet engine at present, though they have the 1.2 Multiair. I feel it is a suggestion from the Fiat fans to develop these engine specs specially for India to avail the peculiar tax benefits.


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Originally Posted by mchanna View Post
It is not true that T-Jet is fuel efficient.
While in city it returns 12-13, on highway if driven within the speed limit of 80-100 it returns mindblowing 18-19 KMPL.

Considering all the drivability factors it returns quite a healthy mileage.
But honestly on highways it requires a immense patient to control your ego and emotions to not to drive beyond 100 ;-)
I hope your opening statement requires a correction.

Last edited by Sommos : 21st May 2014 at 16:55.
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Old 21st May 2014, 17:53   #1354
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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
I hope your opening statement requires a correction.
Oops
Thanks for pointing it out. I meant to Say

"It is not true that T-Jet is not fuel efficient"
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Old 21st May 2014, 18:17   #1355
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
...A lot of folks have said there is a possibility of a 1.2 T Jet and maybe the existence of 1.5mjd. Do any of these engines exist anywhere on Fiat's engine portfolio? I don't recall any which basically means no such engine is going to make it here anytime soon.
If these engines ever make it, these will be the re-bored(?) versions of 1.4L T-Jet & 1.6L MJD. So these may NOT take a lot of budget to ready for the vehicles.
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Old 21st May 2014, 20:27   #1356
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

The front end slightly overdone. How the spare wheel is mounted on the vehicle? I think a separate mounting fixture has been provided for the spare wheel. In that case every time one need to open this fixture before opening the tail gate?
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Old 21st May 2014, 22:54   #1357
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The front end slightly overdone. How the spare wheel is mounted on the vehicle? I think a separate mounting fixture has been provided for the spare wheel. In that case every time one need to open this fixture before opening the tail gate?
Yes sir.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3363049
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Old 22nd May 2014, 09:10   #1358
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Originally Posted by mchanna View Post
While in city it returns 12-13, on highway if driven within the speed limit of 80-100 it returns mindblowing 18-19 KMPL.
I have no idea how you manage such economy numbers. My best I have managed is 16kmpl on the highway cycle. The city cycle is a joke. I have also decided never to drive in mileage mode again. Its so boring with this car.

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
you know it is a distant dream at present. I feel it is a suggestion from the Fiat fans to develop these engine specs specially for India to avail the peculiar tax benefits.
You are right and things have to change.

A company like Hyundai is on a constant upgrade cycle with every new car release. Even for something like a Eon, forget the bigger, pricier cars. You have to be like this and not just sit idle on technology. This is the problem with Fiat India. Please note that Fiat, on a global scale, has been updating their engines. India is left out.

The specifications of the already existing engines in the global portfolio need not be modified too much for India.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
If these engines ever make it, these will be the re-bored(?) versions of 1.4L T-Jet & 1.6L MJD. So these may NOT take a lot of budget to ready for the vehicles.
The trouble is this won't happen in India. It has to come from Fiat directly. I don't want to see a bored down T Jet or 1.6 multi jet. Sell as is. Fiat India don't seem to be doing any local engineering or R&D. There is full dependency on the parent.

VW is downsizing their 1600 diesel by 100cc to fit in the tax box. I want to know if its really worth doing this and by how much does the car get cheaper.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 11:10   #1359
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Really? I find it quite a dud on the so called "Sports" Grande Punto. Lets not talk about tuned versions.
I have a Punto Sport in my family and having driven it extensively, I'd disagree with you on this.

IMHO the issue with the Punto has never been the engine as such. The weakest item in an otherwise brilliant package (apart from the FIAT brand) would be the gearbox. IMHO the engine @ 90 BHP is more than enough for a car of that size but the gearing is just way off the mark. Throw in a slick shifting 'box like that of the all time favorite Swift and I bet its going to be more than eligible to carry the 'Sport' tag - and given the Indian context - even the 'Hot Hatch' tag.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 13:31   #1360
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Originally Posted by MaddyCrew View Post
The weakest item in an otherwise brilliant package would be the gearbox.
You are right about the gearbox but that is not the only problem. The odd ball gear box ratios on all the Fiat's combined with the long clutch makes matters worse. The tune for the "Sports" is not right. The car suffers from a lot of turbo lag. Lets not forget the over weight nature too. The engine takes forever to wake up. You engage first, pop the clutch (not slip), step hard on the gas and it takes somewhere about 3-4 seconds for something to happen. Its the same thing gear after gear. This kills the drive and the feel.

Drive a first generation Swift diesel. I bet that without much effort, this car will run circles around the Punto Sport. As you say, the gearbox is brilliant on the Suzuki but its not just this. Suzuki have managed better results with regard to tuning this engine.

The 3 pot VW 1.2 diesel engine will surprise you when it comes to response. I know its loud and what not.

You may feel so but I don't think the Sport tag goes for a 90hp Punto. The power is there, delivery is not the best.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 13:43   #1361
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I managed about 17.5 with the car when i took her up a few times after i got it , not sure what she will return now coming close to her first birthday and having been touched by the lovely after sales service guys , taking a fiat car for servicing is like going to a hospital for a check up but coming out with 4-5 problems.

On another note the Avventura looks pretty good , the three part design for the lower part of the bumper really stands out for me atleast from the angle the picture has been taken at.

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I have no idea how you manage such economy numbers. My best I have managed is 16kmpl on the highway cycle. The city cycle is a joke. I have also decided never to drive in mileage mode again. Its so boring with this car.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 14:08   #1362
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

I sometimes feel that very acute double standards are applied to Fiats (and to an extent Fords) when it comes to such issues: their strengths are discounted while their weaknesses are exaggerated.

The result: even people who should MAYBE know better (engine power and torque ratings are NOT the be-all of a car's driving character) keep repeating this 'bring 1.6 mjd or else' demand. As if the verna 1.6 or even the the rapid/vento 1.6 were a match for the Linea mjd on all drive parameters taken together, let alone matching the t-jet (if performance is more important).

I say this because I know too many car buyers who relied too much on engine size and stats in their purchase decisions only to discover too late that they mean little if the other drive attributes are weak.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 14:31   #1363
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Originally Posted by puchoo View Post
taking a fiat car for servicing is like going to a hospital for a check up but coming out with 4-5 problems.
Tell me about it. My T-jet's FE has dropped significantly post the third service. First they messed up the turbo-hose and the turbo-kick went absent. I got that sorted immediately but don't know what else they did, the fuel efficiency in city is hovering around 8 KMPL. It used to be ~10 KMPL earlier.

EDIT: @Desdemona - agree with the fact that numbers might mislead at times, case in point - my dad owned a Daewoo Cielo, which on papers never seemed exciting but it was a hoot to drive. However, the perfect chassis of Linea begs for more power (from the MJD). There are people that want the efficiency of Diesel without compromising on performance, and not everyone would want to maintain a Linea T-jet as their primary vehicle (especially if they drive ~100 KMs/day). 1.6 MJD is more of requirement than luxury in Linea.

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What was the solution to the turbo kick coming back and being restored? What caused the problem to begin with?
They had removed the turbo hose while changing the oil filter. As per them, it was done as a precautionary step to avoid damage to the hose while changing oil filter. While reconnecting, then connect the hose at opposite ends. Thus, there was a bend and the turbo didn't spool. I noticed it within 5 KMs from the service center but they had closed for the day, and mine was the last car to have exited their floor that day. So, got it sorted at another FASS on the following day.

Last edited by Biraj : 22nd May 2014 at 14:51. Reason: Adding content
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Old 22nd May 2014, 14:47   #1364
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What was the solution to the turbo kick coming back and being restored? What caused the problem to begin with?

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Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
Tell me about it. My T-jet's FE has dropped significantly post the third service. First they messed up the turbo-hose and the turbo-kick went absent. I got that sorted immediately but don't know what else they did, the fuel efficiency in city is hovering around 8 KMPL. It used to be ~10 KMPL earlier.

.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 15:44   #1365
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Default Re: Fiat's India strategy revealed. Abarth, Jeep, new Linea & Punto coming. More insi

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
A company like Hyundai is on a constant upgrade cycle with every new car release. Even for something like a Eon, forget the bigger, pricier cars. You have to be like this and not just sit idle on technology. This is the problem with Fiat India. Please note that Fiat, on a global scale, has been updating their engines. India is left out.

The specifications of the already existing engines in the global portfolio need not be modified too much for India.

The trouble is this won't happen in India. It has to come from Fiat directly. I don't want to see a bored down T Jet or 1.6 multi jet. Sell as is. Fiat India don't seem to be doing any local engineering or R&D. There is full dependency on the parent.

VW is downsizing their 1600 diesel by 100cc to fit in the tax box. I want to know if its really worth doing this and by how much does the car get cheaper.
A couple of points here.

The former Chrysler Chennai R&D centre has been a part of Fiat for a few years already. Its head is now CEO of Fiat India, Nagesh B. Fiat India is not the passive dependent of FiatChrysler you suggest. My sense is that they'll prove it by launching a (class-leading) 1.2 t-jet and/or a 1.5 mjd as soon as the new dealer network rollout has proceeded far enough.

Fiat India's low (though improving) sales have very little to do with the latest engine tech being missing and almost everything to do with ASS and dealer mistrust.

There are big excise duty benefits at or below 1.5l. The upcoming budget may change that (given the openly visible political clout in the new regime of more than one very interested party/Indian car manufacturer), in which case you'll get your wish of 1.6 mjd 'as is'.

I personally don't care whether an engine is 1.5 or 1.6, has multiair valve timing or not etc: as long as its power-torque-efficiency-emissions-gearbox combo delivers to (near enough) class best standards to match, as Biraj says, the chassis, suspension, steering, braking and...looks! Like the T-jet, which has neither Multiair electro-hydraulic variable valve timing nor direct injection. Engine tech and specs are not ends-in-themselves!

Last edited by desdemona : 22nd May 2014 at 15:48. Reason: delete quote
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