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Old 1st February 2013, 23:36   #46
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Only criterion being they need to change the looks of their cars. If they could come up with such a product soon, they will be back in business.
I doubt it's as simple as that. Making a prettier looking Tata car is like (pardon the phrase) putting lipstick on a pig . There are far bigger problems tata needs to take care of.

Further discussion here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ta-motors.html ("Our target is to be a strong #2 and challenge the #1" - Karl Slym, Tata Motors)
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Old 1st February 2013, 23:50   #47
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I doubt it's as simple as that. Making a prettier looking Tata car is like (pardon the phrase) putting lipstick on a pig . There are far bigger problems tata needs to take care of.

Further discussion here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ta-motors.html ("Our target is to be a strong #2 and challenge the #1" - Karl Slym, Tata Motors)
I do not agree mate!! Have a look at the safari. It looks much better than the black box scorpio. Sierra was a very good looker too. These two cars were designed with passion. This is what i feel. Scorpio looks good too. but not better than a Safari.

The only thing that started this worst design was outsourcing. Indica design was outsourced. What ever they got back from designers, it had been stamped like hell. Tata lived like they aregoing to die soon. They never tried to expand their portfolio other than different engines on the same car to cut costs. i hope even the indica die shape might have been deformed. so are the looks of Tata cars. This is the time to change the die.

Regarding, Tata's problems. What problems do they have? They have 14 indica variants + 10 Indigo variants 3 safari, 3 Aria 3 Sumo. There is no proper sedan. Not even their hatchback portfolio is complete.
The Difference between Nano and Indica is around 3+ lakh. Huge gap. This gap is captured by MS products. Have a look at MS portfolio. At each 40K mark, there will be a variant/different model.

If you dont have a proper portfolio, you will have less sales, so you trouble sales team, they trouble the company back. You push Labor hard, they spoil the Quality. you start loosing business, by now, you see everything collapsing. Now the competitors rise Mahindra, Renault. In the lost ground, you launch a new product in bits & pieces (Read as delayed launches across india) to regain the lost volumes. Oops, you already lost your ground. Now you expect to earn back the R&D cost, so you spend more on advertising, however the volumes wont be much (Sluggish market) so your Balance sheet starts bleeding. And now, you want to launch more products to regain the lost Lions share. Doesn't it seem like a Joke?

When they had good cash, they bought JLR and fixed it to make money. This is one good step. After that, i see TM has gone for a vacation. Tata bought JLR. Tata bought JLR from the money that they have made on small cars and trucks. And Tata never tried to expand their small car portfolio? Poor decision making.

Tata made the experienced Land rover team to work on a product to beat fortuner and they made Aria. They have wasted an year plus to make such a car+ lot of money was invested. Even the fortuner sells hardly 2.5K per month. IF they could have made a very good looking small car by taking design cues from LR or jaguar which could sell 15K per month, it would have bought more volumes and money. Opportunity wasted is opportunity LOST.

I dont understand one thing. Why do they want to make a car which could beat another 25Lakh car? Tata's are known for VFM products. They are not BMW makers. This aint their primary portfolio. this aint Tata's Bread and Butter.

Last edited by gemi_kk : 2nd February 2013 at 00:14. Reason: Adding Value
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Old 2nd February 2013, 00:20   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
I do not agree mate!! Have a look at the safari. It looks much better than the black box scorpio. Sierra was a very good looker too. These two cars were designed with passion. This is what i feel. Scorpio looks good too. but not better than a Safari.
I agree. Safari looks better than Scorpio anyday IMO, even considering the fact that looks are subjective. TATA still has to work on looks, and most importantly stop potraying their cars as CABS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I doubt it's as simple as that. Making a prettier looking Tata car is like (pardon the phrase) putting lipstick on a pig . There are far bigger problems tata needs to take care of.

Further discussion here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ta-motors.html ("Our target is to be a strong #2 and challenge the #1" - Karl Slym, Tata Motors)

Do you mean to say, good looking cars are a copyright for only few companys ? Moreover, the car which looks fabulous to you might be disliked by someone else.
Sir, its about how best the design and development team come up with what they are best at. Unfortunately, tata has not been able to break the ice but that no way tantamounts to the fact they can't or not capable of.

What i see missing is the determination to come up with a product which is classy, stylish and at the same time VFM. Its time they get some ppl from JLR to design their cars.

Last edited by Zappo : 2nd February 2013 at 18:55. Reason: No back to back posts. Use multiquote feature henceforth.
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Old 2nd February 2013, 13:39   #49
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Tata Motors are in a real spot of bother now with January sales sinking to new lows:

Total domestic sales of passenger vehicles: 15,209

Nano + Indica/Vista + Indigo/Manza: 11,192

Sumo/Grande + Safari/Storme + Aria + Venture: 4,017

Source: TM press release

And despite the new management team at the helm, they respond in time-honoured TM fashion by playing around with engines and variants. They've discontinued the non-selling Safire90 engine from the Vista and the ZX variants and have instead introduced the Vista D90 Quadrajet in VX and a new trim called ZX+ with some tacky plastic add-on bits like spoiler and skirts which simply don't gel with the car's design. The only saving grace may be the contrasting roof.

These guys are in big trouble, as far as I can tell. The replacement platforms of ageing vehicles are nowhere in sight and the variants that might make a difference (like the Nano diesel) are taking way too long to introduce. The commercial operators are deserting the company in droves and are flocking to their new favourite (Toyota) and others who are actively wooing them. The CV business is down due to the economy and increasingly tough competition.

Not a pretty picture at all. If Karl Slym can lead TM out of the current mess in about a year's time, that would be a near-miraculous achievement indeed.
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Old 11th February 2013, 12:42   #50
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

I have a different story to tell about the reason for the sudden sales drop of Tata Motors:
With so many theories and studies that have come out why Nano has not reached the desirable sales volume - from delayed launch of almost 16 months to propaganda of “cheap” mantra leading shy away of people, I have a another view on the same. The initial momentum for the sale was very good considering the fact that it’s cheaper. We may agree that, hyper markets like Big Bazaar and shops like Saravana Stores are minting money only because of the word Cheap. They use the word cheap in all their advertisements and people are ready to buy things provided the word cheap and quality for the money goes hand in hand. In case of Nano also this worked initially and that’s the reason there was instant booking for 2 lakhs units.

For the delay in delivery also, it was informed to buyers and were ready to wait for one year after allocation. So what has actually tumbled Nano is only the quality problems cropped out from the initial lot. Thanks to extensive coverage from electronic media showing the burning of newly purchased Nano straight out of the showroom. This made an opinion that there is a high level of compromise in quality for making the car affordable.

This word of mouth spread across very quick and that was almost impossible for Tata to erase. If at all there were no accidents happened definitely the sales would have been much better than the current levels.

With Nano gaining huge negative publicity over the quality levels, this also got associated with the entire Tata brand. There were few of my friends who are of this kind, and started to look every car manufactured by Tata is not a true car by all means and has its level of defects. Thanks to huge level of acceptance for Indica, Sumo associated with Cab market, making private car buyers to think Tata cars are only for Taxi market.

Product positioning is always not right. There are always more than one white space for a product to fill. But management should decide on which space is to be filled first. Aria is a classic example where only because of improper product positioning the product failed. Also whenever a new product is introduced in continuation from the existing product – Indica to Vista, Sumo to Grande etc the newer ones fails to reach the same height of the original one. The reason again the improper product positioning.

Next and fore most important thing is product lifecycle management in Tata. There is always an end to best of best-selling product. There is no reason why should you continue the same product for years together. This is a mindset carried over from their commercial vehicle business unit, where more than 20 years old platforms are still selling.

As I said there are more than few areas where the mind set of commercial vehicles are there in DNA of Tata. Right from the selection of dealers, to the quality of service levels at the service centers etc. so until otherwise we have a separate line of business and approach for Commercial vehicles and Passenger cars all this will continue.
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Old 1st March 2013, 17:22   #51
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

February seems to be (new worry) very bad for TATA, sales at new lows.
Passenger vehicle domestic sales : 10,613 units (combined from Nano to Aria).
Source: http://tatamotors.com/media/press-releases.php?id=839

OT: Few years before, Indica range was alone selling 10,000+ units but now its a combined effort.

Last edited by v1kram : 1st March 2013 at 17:31.
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Old 1st March 2013, 17:51   #52
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

They should buckle up before its too late. Once they reach the hopeless level it will be very very hard to come back up.

Their top priority as always should be quality both of products and After sales. Second on that list should be new launches. Who gives today for a Manza or a Vista or for any of their other offerings. Bring something relevant TATA before you become irrelevant yourself.
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Old 1st March 2013, 19:40   #53
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

Once upon a time I had a Tata car, and, I'm reasonably sure I will not buy a Tata again. Ever. Looks like their lousy quality is finally catching up with the sales figures.
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:02   #54
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

I think improving the quality on existing models is not going to help. What they need is a total brand make over. Introduce new models (with new names) with better quality and gradually phase out the old models. Ratan Tata will not allow the Indica name to vanish, but then it brings the memories of the First Indica and its issues. They need a killer product that can change the current perception.
I think Emo prototype is a good design. The prototype is EV, but if they can develop it on Nano platform, that could be a good product. But looks like there is no plans to convert this to production car.
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:29   #55
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

Tata to launch an electric car!! funny indeed. the govt should be more receptive of electric cars. Secondly, tata's and their electrical systems have never gone well.
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:59   #56
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

Every now and then we hear about Mahindra trying something new. There is the new engine family, Verito Hatch, new small SUV etc etc. Every company releases these snippets to keep potential customers interested. Where is Tata? What are your new products? When are they going to be launched? Mental preparation before buying a new car is still a long drawn process for most customers. There are people who have waited for months (if not years) for the Ecosports/Dusters/XUVs. C'mon Tata you owe us all an answer.
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Old 17th March 2013, 01:32   #57
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

Tata needs to do the following:

1. Tata brand should be withdrawn from personal automobile industry. They should stick to heavy and commercial vehicles including Taxis.
2. Create a new brand and company that would be specific to the personal automobile industry. There should be no link between Tata and this new brand. Especially your current component suppliers.
3. Design and launch new products with focus on safety, simplicity, reliability, comfort and aesthetic looks. Build rugged and sturdy vehicles. Ignore techno gizmos and rich features for some years.
4. Owning this new brand should be VFM and peace of mind for the Indian consumer.
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Old 17th March 2013, 02:23   #58
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

I can't help but wonder if Karl Slym was prescient and saw this remarkable fall in sales coming (~10K in Feb) and instituted this whole austerity drive and production cuts.

They really need to buck up or JLR will be the only profitable part of the tata car industry. A shame given how good Tata once was (estate, Sierra etc)
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Old 17th March 2013, 07:53   #59
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

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Originally Posted by SedatedDrive View Post
2. Create a new brand and company that would be specific to the personal automobile industry.
3. Ignore techno gizmos and rich features for some years.
Quoting some points in the posts= above:

If Tata, or any other company were to do that, then you would immediately say that:
1. What's in a name ? It is still a Tata. They cant improve
2. What ??!! No techno features ? What were they thinking ? How can they give such a basic vehicle in this day & age !!!
3. and so on ..

@SedatedDrive, I think I could bet that you would have reacted exactly this way had the original points come from Tata itlself, and not from you !! Actually, nothing personal - but it is not just you, but many others too !

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Old 17th March 2013, 11:40   #60
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Default Re: Tata Motors on an austerity drive. Production cut too

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@SedatedDrive, I think I could bet that you would have reacted exactly this way had the original points come from Tata itlself, and not from you !! Actually, nothing personal - but it is not just you, but many others too!
I got your point. But what I had said was that they should ignore techno gizmos and rich features for a few years. A manufacturer should first achieve quality in his mechanical and engineering output before bringing in a third nugget like electronics into play.

We know that that is how most of the established players like VW, Honda, Toyota started - by first getting the basics right. Once you have a stable product, future products will have a strong foundation for added features and electronics.
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