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Old 9th May 2006, 21:16   #16
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Islero, Koreans are infact too good with continuous product development . 1593 cylinder 4 pot Crdi pumping out 110 bhp is a testimony for that fact . The problem is they are not developing the core brand . They are confusing people , I mean what do you prefer , Chevrolet Forester or Subaru .They werent planning for mass production of that car they were only planing for knocked down kits . I feel if they had created a Subaru heritage in India , I am sure people are well aware of WRC in India . By they way Koreans build quality is a bit ?????? ! I feel they should have launced spark(matiz) instead of Aveo coz its a commonsense that simply wont be able to rise to what the competition has in offer . If they have a money counter I mean something which will sell atleast 4000 units then they can get a strong hold in here . And in a Later stage they could have started a mature war . Right now it looks as if they have launced one just coz City has started doing great numbers (3500 units +). Chevrolet brand anyway was well lifted with the right car I mean Optra atleast to look at and ride was fantastic.Spark with an efficient petrol engine would have been a more logical follower . Its true that GM ran into trouble trying to buy out Daewoos old plant. And if they are planning to launch Spark near to Toyota Avigo(with 1.1 Hdi engine).......its gonna be another disaster . GM's gotta quicken its reflex.
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Old 9th May 2006, 21:58   #17
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Well, yes, Spark could have been launched, except for the fact that it still is a Matiz.

No one wants to be reminded of Daewoo. No one even wants to hear about their name or see any of the Daewoo cars they are familiar with ever again. Such a shambles Daewoo made of their Indian operations.

So l;aunching the Spark may turn out to be a mistake when one is trying to reform oneself and shake off an old reputation.

You might again mention the fact that the Optra is very much a Daewoo, but it sells in the premium class to people who know better, and would appreciate the fact that GM is reforming and would not mind the Korean roots because the car has such good quality aldready.
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Old 9th May 2006, 22:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
Well, yes, Spark could have been launched, except for the fact that it still is a Matiz.

No one wants to be reminded of Daewoo. No one even wants to hear about their name or see any of the Daewoo cars they are familiar with ever again. Such a shambles Daewoo made of their Indian operations.

So l;aunching the Spark may turn out to be a mistake when one is trying to reform oneself and shake off an old reputation.

You might again mention the fact that the Optra is very much a Daewoo, but it sells in the premium class to people who know better, and would appreciate the fact that GM is reforming and would not mind the Korean roots because the car has such good quality aldready.
I feel spark wil sell well it it gives value. In india people elect one party one year and the other 5 years later. They tend to forgive and accept. They will see "hey now they are doing well". It is a good car.
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Old 10th May 2006, 01:00   #19
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changing brands does kill the real feel of the car,and this is the reason GM has no fan following, all other manufacturers cars including hyundai have a specific feel associated with them.
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Old 10th May 2006, 09:28   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
Well, yes, Spark could have been launched, except for the fact that it still is a Matiz.

No one wants to be reminded of Daewoo. No one even wants to hear about their name or see any of the Daewoo cars they are familiar with ever again. Such a shambles Daewoo made of their Indian operations.

So l;aunching the Spark may turn out to be a mistake when one is trying to reform oneself and shake off an old reputation.

You might again mention the fact that the Optra is very much a Daewoo, but it sells in the premium class to people who know better, and would appreciate the fact that GM is reforming and would not mind the Korean roots because the car has such good quality aldready.
I am sorry Islero , I dont agree with that . Infact Spark is one of the cutest car in its segment . If its given 1.3 litr JTD of Fiat , car will litrally rock . And very few actually no that Optra is actually a Nubira , not convinced ask one or two owners about their car.
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Old 10th May 2006, 09:35   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbhp
If its given 1.3 litr JTD of Fiat , car will litrally rock .

I dont think there is any way anything bigger than a 1 litre engine is going to fit inside the Spark's puny engine bay. Anyone to verify my thought?
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Old 10th May 2006, 09:43   #22
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But From What I see having a common Umbrella brand fora range of products will always give a buyera more secure feel than having 10 different brand's product. I mean do you think Optra would have sold these many numbers if it was sold under the Daewoo badge, i dont think so, So if rebadgeing allows the company to sell a car which has everything good except for the badge then why not ?

Also if the original bades were retained, then a Forrester buyer would have always thought that although he has got the car from a GM dealer, the forester is the only product by Sunaru & hence may close any day, now their is a feeling of security that the Chevy brand is an established brand in India with a rnage of models & wont go away just like that.

My 2 cents
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Old 10th May 2006, 10:04   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser
See a samsung which is breathing under the throat of Sony.
Probably breathing over Sony's head now - Sony makes its profits these days from Columbia Pictures, not from core electronics. The turnover comes from electronics but the profits come from Spiderman.
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Old 10th May 2006, 13:20   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser
We are too critical about korean cars isnt it. Koreans have made some decent if not good cars too. As a nation we are far behind in many areas. How many models do we sell in international market. If one is not going to get offended IMO we need not criticize koreans less or much. We should appreciate what they are doing. See a samsung which is breathing under the throat of Sony.

Comparison is between Germany and Korea., not India and Korea..(thats a completely different story)...
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Old 10th May 2006, 13:42   #25
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Default Just a Note on my discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat
But From What I see having a common Umbrella brand fora range of products will always give a buyera more secure feel than having 10 different brand's product. I mean do you think Optra would have sold these many numbers if it was sold under the Daewoo badge, i dont think so, So if rebadgeing allows the company to sell a car which has everything good except for the badge then why not ?

Also if the original bades were retained, then a Forrester buyer would have always thought that although he has got the car from a GM dealer, the forester is the only product by Sunaru & hence may close any day, now their is a feeling of security that the Chevy brand is an established brand in India with a rnage of models & wont go away just like that.

My 2 cents
I am with GM for Optra branding it chevy was just right . It had no apparent korean looks . I mean with the new grille it looks like a real American especially with that awesome tail lights. I myself like the car though I am not an avid Daewoon fan. But tell me why are they delaying the launch of 2.2 litre Crdi engine. I feel they should have done that instead of launching anothe car. I am sure at 9 lacs and a 2.2 Crdi Unit , it coud have lured some Oktavia buyers too . I mean it could have attained a smooth monthly sales of 1000 + units.
In the case of Tavera , I feel Isuzu Panther would have made more sense coz Isuzu is well known after their engines and robust build , like 1.8 litre 88 bhp cut down laer to 74 bhp in Contessa Classic 1.8 GL and 2.0 Litre Diesel in 2.0 GL and even those 1.8 litre turbo engines (reconditioned imported engines )that found its way to many Ambys.
Its not that rebadging is Stupid coz it really made sense with Optra . Later with Aveo , Forester ...Gm I feel is just making everything into a Chevy just coz Optra worked .
Tavera never sold the way it should have . Now that I dont say was brand rebadging problem rather it was late entry . Now thats the issue I am talking about. I mean they spend so much time localising parts that the whole product gets out of date . If they had planned a launch close to qualis , it would have sold in a better way . Now I dont mean like qualis that had done 3500 units + . I am saying 2000 wouldnt be bad for Tavera. Instead look at it now.
Rebadging issue was meant for Subaru Forrester . And that was a off topic discussion . Can I ask you something . What do you personally prefer ?
1.Subaru Forester.
2.Chevy Forester.
Logically they are alike but what do you feel frankly.But I do agree on security factor . But whats the actual meaning of it ? A brand that has been doing well for couple of years , nice resale value and Availability of spares and service. Now even a subaru can do it if they get it right.
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Old 10th May 2006, 13:47   #26
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Default Think again.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
I dont think there is any way anything bigger than a 1 litre engine is going to fit inside the Spark's puny engine bay. Anyone to verify my thought?
I am not recomending a Hemi v8 in spark , I am saying 1.3 litre Jet turbo Diesel Engine . Its as compact as it can get and is mean to cater to all small cars. I am sure it will fit in. Its 200 cc more and Efficient engine bay packing can do the kob.
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Old 10th May 2006, 16:50   #27
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I think rather than confuse the Indian public with too many brands under GM they are sticking to just Chevrolet as a brand and bringing in cars of various segments.

Do you think Subaru Optra or Subaru Nubira would have worked ??

Moreover Chevrolet had existed in India long ago so its just that the brand association with Chevy becomes more comfortable.

I would like to add an example here - FIAT brand in India doesnt give a prestige factor even though there cars are toooooooooo goooood. But many people buy Optra / Aveo just bcoz of the Chevy brand image factor.
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Old 10th May 2006, 18:53   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namit
I think rather than confuse the Indian public with too many brands under GM they are sticking to just Chevrolet as a brand and bringing in cars of various segments.

Do you think Subaru Optra or Subaru Nubira would have worked ??

Moreover Chevrolet had existed in India long ago so its just that the brand association with Chevy becomes more comfortable.

I would like to add an example here - FIAT brand in India doesnt give a prestige factor even though there cars are toooooooooo goooood. But many people buy Optra / Aveo just bcoz of the Chevy brand image factor.
Namit , my friend Subaru Forester is something like a Mitsubishi Lancer or Ford Focus may be not to that level of Impreza but its still an icon in Japanese motoe industry . You can never rebadge such cars .Its a car with lot of heritage . And please dont compare Chevy with Subaru . Subaru Forester is awesome . Try driving one . And I didnt ask for Subaru Optra . Thats going against my theme.
My theme is " Is GM india doing right "
And my boy Fiat got 1,25,000 ooking for UNO , okay something Indian Automotive industry is yet to witness. They went down bcoz of a strike that originated right at the time of UNo's launch . That meant late delivery . Later due to poor service and poor customer satisfaction . And the kind of products they had brought has never been for prestige . Do you think a guy driving Santro buys it for prestige value , or an Ikon?What they had launced where B-Segmet or Lower C-Segment cars.Fiat cars are good I myself have a Siena which has done 1,10,000 Kms . But their Engine is too sluggish with the AC on (1.7 Turbo Diesel ). The 1.6 is awesome but sadly I dont own any pumps. With a heavy foot 1.6 palio / Petra/Siena returns nothing more than 9kmpl . Not something people would appreciate when others are competing to be above 13kmpl.
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Old 11th May 2006, 09:24   #29
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You mean to say Subaru Forester which is a bigger brand Than Chevy Forester would have sold more numbers than what it sold here ?

If some one is that much aware that there exists a brand called Subaru forester he would have bought it irrespective of whether its badged as a Chevy or a Subaru.

Like namit said & what I also in my previous post GM does not want create a huge list of brands whihc would further confuse the buyers. And yes since the Chevy brand worked with Optra they decided to stick with it.
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Old 11th May 2006, 09:51   #30
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Default Focus !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat
You mean to say Subaru Forester which is a bigger brand Than Chevy Forester would have sold more numbers than what it sold here ?

If some one is that much aware that there exists a brand called Subaru forester he would have bought it irrespective of whether its badged as a Chevy or a Subaru.

Like namit said & what I also in my previous post GM does not want create a huge list of brands whihc would further confuse the buyers. And yes since the Chevy brand worked with Optra they decided to stick with it.
I am reapeating my view point. The main theme is not rebadging its about GM stratergy .
And technocrat , what would you buy Proton lancer or Mitsubishi Lancer . What I mean is if they had launced the car as Subaru , it would have been more apt since the rally pedigree of Subaru is truly known worldwide. Whatever you say , it was very wrong of them coz it was the right product for introduction of Subaru. I am not saying it would have sold more all I mean to insist is that rebadging Kalos to Aveo Chevy makes sense cause Daewoo is not well recognised in this coutry. The same thing cannot be said about Subaru . Chevy worked with optra coz that is really a world class car. Same thing cannot be said about Tavera and Aveo .
With Optra they were right . But Tavera not sure coz of late timing. Aveo .......not sure at all . Marketing is a very crucial Part of any product . If they had launced Subaru Forester like how safari is being projected by the media it would have sold much more , coz its really such a car unlike Safari . Remember the Ad of Safari Petrol ? that jumpimg scene ? After such an act , do you think safari will be able to do that again .

Last edited by maxbhp : 11th May 2006 at 10:07.
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