Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th February 2013, 23:37   #91
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,420
Thanked: 6,320 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
...Also, I guess Suzuki has got the rights to modify the 1.6L DDiS engine, and that's why they are readying the 800CC 2 cylinder Diesel engine, by chopping 2 cylinders from it!
I do NOT think Fiat would give a license (or have given it yet) to chop 2 cylinders off the 1.6L MJD. The way I understood, they just can use it as it is; NO modifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
....A bigger Dzire to replace sx4 sedan - Not a bigger Dzire. But I Suppose a New SX4...
I believe there is a new sedan that will come between the Dzire & the SX4. SX4 might get a new gen, so I do NOT think this new sedan will be a replacement for SX4.
swiftnfurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 09:31   #92
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,536
Thanked: 1,702 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
So what do you suggest do nothing?
Not at all. Please read what I wrote earlier: "about the new 800CC Diesel engine to be fitted in Alto: they have to use it in cars those are not selling, than in Alto. Otherwise, it will eat into the Petrol engine sales (26K per month!). They should keep in their mind how Diesel Swifts ate into Petrol model sales."

Using the 800CC Diesel engine in cars like A-Star will be more profitful for Maruti than plonking it in Alto/WR, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
It is not about producing what you can. It is about producing hat the market requires.
Correct, and that's why Maruti is where it is now in India! And a total number of 40K per month of Alto+WR means market requires these Petrol models, while a paltry 1000 units of A-Star means market doesn't require that, and Maruti can try to launch a Diesel model of that.
romeomidhun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 10:21   #93
Senior - BHPian
 
fiat_tarun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pune / Mysore
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 545 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

The 800cc diesel engine is not a derivative of the Fiat MJD. It is a new development by Suzuki out of Japan. I'm sure Suzuki realise that their reliance on Fiat cannot continue forever and are working towards having their own diesel tech.

What surprises me though is that they are starting with a 2 cylinder engine, which is actually quite complex especially when it comes to turbocharging. With Suzuki's in-experience in diesel development it's definitely going to be a challenge.
fiat_tarun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 10:38   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,536
Thanked: 1,702 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
What surprises me though is that they are starting with a 2 cylinder engine, which is actually quite complex especially when it comes to turbocharging. With Suzuki's in-experience in diesel development it's definitely going to be a challenge.
I'm not aware of the technical difficulties associated with a 2-cylinder engine, but as you mentioned, it's the Diesel-in-experienced Suzuki that makes me think that the 800CC engine will be a modification of the 1.6L DDiS.
romeomidhun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 11:11   #95
Senior - BHPian
 
fiat_tarun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pune / Mysore
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 545 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
I'm not aware of the technical difficulties associated with a 2-cylinder engine, but as you mentioned, it's the Diesel-in-experienced Suzuki that makes me think that the 800CC engine will be a modification of the 1.6L DDiS.
Nope, I can 100% confirm that this is not a derivative of the MJD. Suzuki does not have the license to modify this engine. Besides, I wonder why you say the 1.6L, when Suzuki does not have this variant here in India.

Honda could be an inspiration to Suzuki. Their i-DTech engines, developed from scratch with no diesel experience what so ever, have earned good reviews.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 11th February 2013 at 11:13.
fiat_tarun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 12:18   #96
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
What surprises me though is that they are starting with a 2 cylinder engine, which is actually quite complex especially when it comes to turbocharging. With Suzuki's in-experience in diesel development it's definitely going to be a challenge.
What if they are not thinking of turbocharger in the first place? With the diesel engines having lesser power output than the petrol counterparts for identical capacity, I'm not sure how good an 800cc diesel would be for anything other than an entry level car. For an entry level car which is expected to be driven mostly in city conditions, the turbo may not be such a value add practically considering the condtions where it would be kicked in and the additional cost of turbocharger.

Another thought: It could be that Suzuki probably expects the NVH levels to be slightly on the higher side initially as this is the first time they are venturing into the diesel. Best bet in such a case would be the segment where NVH levels are not really a big deal breaker till the time they iron out the wrinkles.

Probably once they get a hang of the non-turbo diesel tech, they might introduce turbo for higher spec diesels. Remember, Suzuki R&D budget might be just a small fraction of what Honda had for Earthdreams. Turbochargers are nothing new to them as they have plenty of experience with 660cc 3-cylinder turbo petrol engines in Japan. It shouldn't need too much effort from Suzuki to introduce turbo at a later stage if they choose to for higher displacement engines like a 3 cyl 1.2L diesel that could be developed from the 800cc 2 cylinder that is rumoured.
zenren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 13:06   #97
Senior - BHPian
 
fiat_tarun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pune / Mysore
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 545 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
What if they are not thinking of turbocharger in the first place? With the diesel engines having lesser power output than the petrol counterparts for identical capacity, I'm not sure how good an 800cc diesel would be for anything other than an entry level car. For an entry level car which is expected to be driven mostly in city conditions, the turbo may not be such a value add practically considering the condtions where it would be kicked in and the additional cost of turbocharger.

.
.
.
That is a probability, since I remember reading that they plan on entering the LCV space by 2015. This engine could be for that application, with a 3 cyl version later for pass car applications.
fiat_tarun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 09:11   #98
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,536
Thanked: 1,702 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/18484328.cms

"Maruti Suzuki India is planning to launch four Sports Utility Vehicles (SUVs) over the next two years"

1. SX4 crossover in 2014.
2. XA Alpha in 2015
3. Sub-4 meter Vitara
4. SUV version of the Swift Dzire

Where is the S-Cross SUV?
For what purpose a sub-4 meter Vitara, and with which engine? 1.2L Petrol and 1.3L DDiS? Nonsense, then.
If XA-Alpha comes, then why an SUV version of DZire?

My wishlist:
Sub-4m XA-Alpha in 5-7L range
SX4 cross-over in 6-8L range
S-Cross in 8-10L
Locally built full-sized Vitara in 12-14L
romeomidhun is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 11:49   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/18484328.cms

"Maruti Suzuki India is planning to launch four Sports Utility Vehicles (SUVs) over the next two years"

1. SX4 crossover in 2014.
2. XA Alpha in 2015
3. Sub-4 meter Vitara
4. SUV version of the Swift Dzire

Fully agree, looks like the reporter heard some words and tried putting an article together with his imagination.

S-Cross would be the next generation SX4 for the international market. They might pull the plug on SX4 once they launch S Cross. Since they are only giving cosmetic upgrades to the current SX4 this year, it is likely that they have plans to launch the S Cross in India, may be within a year of international launch. I'd be over optimistic to expect a launch around the same time as in Europe. So that is probably 3 years away for us.

XA Alpha is already based on the Swift platform and would be the mini-SUV version of the Swift/Dzire. This is also the sub 4m SUV from them and would most likely be the next new car launch by Maruti in India.

What they need would be a proper SUV above XA Alpha. This slot can be filled by Vitara in the current avatar with heavy localization and a diesel mill. Most likely, S-Cross would fill the price band between between XA Alpha and Vitara.

Last edited by zenren : 14th February 2013 at 11:51.
zenren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 12:06   #100
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,420
Thanked: 6,320 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
...
1. SX4 crossover in 2014.
2. XA Alpha in 2015
3. Sub-4 meter Vitara
4. SUV version of the Swift Dzire
What are the price points they expect these to be placed in? I thought XA Alpha would be the compact SUV from Maruti. Looking at the above piece, all these are compact SUVs!
swiftnfurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 13:31   #101
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,536
Thanked: 1,702 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Source: http://www.cartrade.com/car-bike-new...me%20in%202013

"Maruti Suzuki India Limited (MSIL), the country's largest passenger car maker, is believed to be readying a new entry level subcompact hatchback called 'Cervo' for a 2013 launch in the domestic market. Top industry experts believe that the yet-to-be launched Maruti Suzuki Cervo small car will be pitched below the company's current cheapest offering, the Alto 800 entry level model in the country."

Most probably a wild guess, but if true, it would replace the 800, IMO.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 14th February 2013 at 13:32.
romeomidhun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 15:43   #102
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,578
Thanked: 1,722 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Most probably a wild guess, but if true, it would replace the 800, IMO.
We've been hearing the Cervo rumours for too long! That said, it looks better than the Alto800 to me.

1.5-2 lakhs pricing would be difficult though.
zenren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 15:54   #103
Senior - BHPian
 
aniketi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,256
Thanked: 688 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

I am eagerly waiting the launch of Cervo to India. Dont know why Maruti is not putting it in India. With k10 engine it will surely be a blast. If they can price it below 4 L that will be great. I will be first to buy that car. Maruti are you listening???
aniketi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2013, 18:18   #104
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,536
Thanked: 1,702 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
That said, it looks better than the Alto800 to me.
Yes. Cervo has a modern look associated to it, which Alto800 lacks. Even old Alto looks much proportionate than current Alto800, IMO.
Attached Images
  
romeomidhun is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2013, 20:22   #105
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,536
Thanked: 1,702 Times
Default Re: Marutiís plans - Upgraded Swift, SX4 Crossover and an 800cc Diesel car?

My friend who still has an old connection with Maruti says that the news about xa-alpha and dzire-based suv could be true, though he don't have any idea about sx4, scross and vitara. Xa-alpha may not be a sub 4m suv, but will most probably share the platform, engine and even seating configuration with ertiga, and sit above it. Maruti's sub 4m suv will most probably be based on dzire and a swift on steroids on looks department, and will be priced between dzire and ertiga.
romeomidhun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti Suzuki to develop 800cc Diesel Engine speedmiester The Indian Car Scene 18 8th October 2013 12:15
Why cant we get a nice compact Diesel SUV/Crossover in the price range of Rs 4-7 Lacs shankar.balan The Indian Car Scene 151 19th February 2013 17:46
Upgraded from Esteem VXi to SX4 Zxi - car choice Meer Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 7 16th October 2008 13:37
Tata plans Safari-Sumo crossover, new Indigo sridhga The Indian Car Scene 6 26th August 2008 14:48


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:32.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks