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Old 23rd January 2013, 16:20   #46
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
...An out of the world Fuel Efficiency of 20.36 is actually i10's USP as per the official website of i10. Pasting the snapshot from the Hyundai i10 India homepage:

Attachment 1041609...
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Originally Posted by Deep Blue View Post
...I don't think even the Santro was fuel efficient. But somehow Hyundai has managed to fool the Indian public into believing they are fuel efficient. At the same time Palio which was a much better car sank on poor FE.
These FE reports are from ARAI. How can Hyundai tweak these? And anything that's given for other models, all these cars are tested by ARAI using the same parameters.

So why would anyone say that Hyundai is "fooling" the customers? If this was something obtained thru a mileage marathon, there was some base for such arguments.

*************************************************

And I dis-agree with those who say i10 is cramped! When I TDed, I found the interior packaging really good and I can confidently say this car is spacious than Swift. And for those people who buy a Wagon R, I believe i10 equally impresses except for the Maruti badge & associated benefits. I consider i10 any day better (purely from a product perspective) compared to Wagon R.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 16:30   #47
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
These FE reports are from ARAI. How can Hyundai tweak these? And anything that's given for other models, all these cars are tested by ARAI using the same parameters.

So why would anyone say that Hyundai is "fooling" the customers? If this was something obtained thru a mileage marathon, there was some base for such arguments.
May be Hyundai is not tweaking the figures, but all my friends who owns a Hyundai have complaints on FE figures. The cars may be behaving completely differently in daily use than they behaved during the ARAI tests.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
And I dis-agree with those who say i10 is cramped! When I TDed, I found the interior packaging really good and I can confidently say this car is spacious than Swift. And for those people who buy a Wagon R, I believe i10 equally impresses except for the Maruti badge & associated benefits. I consider i10 any day better (purely from a product perspective) compared to Wagon R.
I feel i10 is spacious as compared to Wagon R but not when you compare it to Swift. Owners of i10 (people I know) say that Swift is more spacious and I agree with them when I am in a i10.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 16:45   #48
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
May be Hyundai is not tweaking the figures, but all my friends who owns a Hyundai have complaints on FE figures. The cars may be behaving completely differently in daily use than they behaved during the ARAI tests.
I was NOT challenging anybody who claims lesser FE. I was thinking loud what could be the reason for such a variation. And you just shared the same thought as mine - is there anything different about the product(s) send for ARAI certification!!

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I feel i10 is spacious as compared to Wagon R but not when you compare it to Swift. Owners of i10 (people I know) say that Swift is more spacious and I agree with them when I am in a i10.
New gen Wagon R is quite spacious than previous gen [we own(ed) both]. I will consider the new gen at par or better than i10. But I still don't agree to Swift being spacious (rear) than i10 (I had back to back TDs). I own a Swift, the front seats are better, but the rear leg room is worse than an i10! May be we can agree to disagree!
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Old 23rd January 2013, 17:18   #49
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by narayan View Post
Discounts come in to promote sales at a point of time.

discount does not necessarily mean a result of overpricing but only means that at any given point of time a manufacturer wants to give a reduction in price to sustain sales ( in this case due to the onslaught of diesel small cars )
If the reason for discount is just the diesel-petrol price difference, then it has to be equally applicable for i10 and i20 petrol. If both models get the same discounts, then it doesn't change anything in what I mentioned earlier since I'm looking at the price difference between two petrol variants from the same manufacturer and what the customer gets for that additional cost. That helps keep perception about the manufacturer, service quality etc. out of the equation and focus on just the models in question. Think of the additional cost to i20 Sportz to add features available in i10 Asta and the cost to add missing features in i10 Asta but available in i20 Sportz. Most likely, i20 would prove to be cheaper which is why I feel i10 is overpriced.

All said, i10 is still the perfect car for someone who can afford a much bigger car but wants something smaller so that it is easy for someone over 65 to drive around and park in the city. We have an i10 in the family as the price, fuel and maintenance costs, rear seat comfort etc were the least of our priorities for that specific case. We just wanted the easiest car to drive around in the city; lesser its width the better as the roads were always narrow bi-lanes. So no regrets or complaints on that but my scenario would be a rare fraction of the customer base who goes for i10.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 17:22   #50
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The i10's sales are under pressure only because it lacks a diesel engine. Fact is, the petrol segment has shrunk over the last 12 - 18 months. Give it a diesel and the car will fly off shelves.

Only thing I don't like about the i10 is its imperfect ride on Indian roads.
As usual, couldn't have said it better. These are the 2012 sales figures (TOI, Mumbai edition, 23rd Jan, page 21).

Swift - 186797
Wagon R - 134823
I10 - 98702
Indica - 94708
Eon - 93578

Is this the beginning of the end of i10? Far fetched thinking! This performance is great considering the petrol-diesel market dynamics and new/recent launches over the last 2 years.

1. Of course Swift is doing better. But have more petrol Swifts sold than i10s? Don't think so. The petrol Ritz? Please!

2. Is it doing better than the Wagon R? No.The Wagon R offers more bang for the buck from the market's point of view. However, that doesn't mean i10 is really struggling.

Having owned a Swift for 5 years and an I10 now, I would sum it up as follows:

a. Build quality - superb. Anyday better than Maruti. Heck, my wife, who is not car-savvy comments on this every single time!

b. FE - can be better, but I am getting a 10 in my AT in bumper to bumper and my Swift Vxi gave me 11. I am OK with that, but I wouldn't mind if it gives more!

c. Spacious - definitely. Very airy unlike the claustrophobic feeling one gets in the rear seats of the Swift, I like the glass area. I don't know if the new Swift has more space but it definitely feels cooped in.

d. Fun to Drive - No. Definite area of improvement across all Hyundais. But easy to drive - heck, yes! The i10 AT, to me is perfection. The height, visibility, turning radius.

e. Ride quality - horrible. But I feel the suspension itself is quite robust and takes a bit of abuse. At least, my personal experience

f. A.S.S - Unlike a lot of people here, I have had a pretty decent experience. In fact, I like my Honda's A.S.S. far more than Hyundai or Maruti. At the end of the day, I think it depends a lot on the individual dealer/choices in the market. I had a horrible maruti experience at Sai Service and switched to a FNG *** who was quite ok.

Overall, yes, there are areas of improvement, but it's a fine little car selling quite well in a very tough market. The next relaunch should be interesting to watch.

Last edited by d_himan : 23rd January 2013 at 17:26.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 17:40   #51
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
i10 beats RitzP hands down in engine and FTD? Common man, please - you can say anything else, but not this. The free-revving K12 is any day better than Kappa that loses its steam very early when revved hard.

I am a common man and so are most of the members in this forum, aren't you a part of the same herd ? Moreover, I said what i felt right and sensible IMO.
I have driven Kappa and k12 extensively and i can say any day that kappa has upper hand on most of the aspects if not all. I know k12 is a gem but its just that i like kappa and ivtec more. To each is own. I can't help if that offences you anyway

Brio, i10 and Swift are the true drivers car. Nothing comes close if talked about Petrol. Period.

Thanks.

Last edited by Shiv_1984 : 23rd January 2013 at 17:47.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 17:52   #52
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
i10 beats RitzP hands down in engine and FTD? Common man, please - you can say anything else, but not this. The free-revving K12 is any day better than Kappa that loses its steam very early when revved hard.
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Originally Posted by Shiv_1984 View Post
I am a common man and so are most of the members in this forum, aren't you a part of the same herd ? Moreover, I said what i felt right and sensible IMO.
Thanks.
Just to clarify, Romeomidhun meant - Come on, man!
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Old 23rd January 2013, 17:52   #53
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

Interesting topic. In fact just the other day I had commented to a friend that you rarely see the i10 on the roads these days. According to me its mainly the fact that it doesnt have a diesel variant that is holding it back. Plus people would rather pay less for a petrol car and use the savings to offset the higher cost of fuel
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Old 23rd January 2013, 17:58   #54
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by Recompose View Post
Just to clarify, Romeomidhun meant - Come on, man!

Sorry, my mistake but common is read as common not as c'mon . Thanks for clarifying on his behalf
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Old 23rd January 2013, 18:07   #55
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I was NOT challenging anybody who claims lesser FE. I was thinking loud what could be the reason for such a variation. And you just shared the same thought as mine - is there anything different about the product(s) send for ARAI certification!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
May be Hyundai is not tweaking the figures, but all my friends who owns a Hyundai have complaints on FE figures. The cars may be behaving completely differently in daily use than they behaved during the ARAI tests.
ARAI tests and the Indian Driving Cycle are explained in the below thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ncy-tests.html (Article on how ARAI conducts its fuel-efficiency tests)


Quote:
To understand how the industry has arrived at these highly exaggerated figures, you need to do study the IDC.

The entire cycle lasts 1,140 seconds and covers 10 kilometres which translates to an average speed of 31.6kph. The gentle driving technique that can be adopted and a fair amount of relaxed cruising in top gear, which is never over 90kph, seriously help efficiency. Having an extra ratio is also beneficial and a reason why six-speed gearboxes are becoming more and more common. It's primarily to bring down emissions (and fuel consumption). Fuel consumption is much worse in the real world than on the IDC. The chaotic nature of our urban zones with the constant stopping and starting, the long periods of idling and heavier use of the throttle pedal (to zoom past that amber light) is far more brutal on economy than the sealed-off environment of a lab. If anything, the IDC figures allow for easy repeatability and consistency thanks to the highly controlled test environment, which is impossible to achieve in the real world. This has allowed the IDC to create a good reference point in the relative comparison of cars. But even this has its flaws. Air-conditioning, which is standard in over 90 per cent of our cars, is not considered and can be misleading because the impact of air-con on a small car is much more than on a bigger car. Also, figures from the IDC may vary depending on which government approved testing centre is used — ARAI (Pune), VRDE (Ahmednagar) and iCAT (Manesar).
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Old 23rd January 2013, 19:46   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
These FE reports are from ARAI. How can Hyundai tweak these? And anything that's given for other models, all these cars are tested by ARAI using the same parameters.

So why would anyone say that Hyundai is "fooling" the customers? If this was something obtained thru a mileage marathon, there was some base for such arguments.
The difference between ARAI figures for i10 and real world figures seem much wider than for equivalent Maruti petrol vehicles. But still, none of my friends carry an impression that i10 is not fuel efficient. If I say Figo P, my friends would say immediately say "very poor FE, only 11-12".None of them say reflexively say that for i10. Hyundai's marketing has successfully dispelled any such notions. Only those owning the i10 complain of poor FE. If "fooling" was a strong word I retract it

Last edited by Deep Blue : 23rd January 2013 at 19:51.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 20:43   #57
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

It is really amusing how people will compare i10's mileage with WagonR (a smaller 3 cylinder engine), but compare space and handling with Ritz and Swift. Team BHP has a dedicated thread on low FE of Ritz, but people will only bash Hyundai for misleading customers by declaring the ARAI certified figure.

People will try to create an expensive-to-maintain image for Hyundai cars without comparing figures of other companies. And please don't compare service charges of cars from different segments, or service charges from different decades.

And whats the harm if Eon is eating into i10's sales ? Doesn't Maruti sell several cars in similar price range ?

And how does one define fun-to-drive for a city hatchback ? Is high speed cornering and steering feedback the only criteria for car being fun to drive ? What about ergonomics, visibility, driveability etc ?

What about features, build quality, fit and finish etc ? Do these things have no impact on the ownership experience ?

And i10 doesn't come with a diesel engine option because it was meant to be city car. It was never meant to be a highway scorcher.

Rohan
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Old 23rd January 2013, 20:45   #58
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

In the Indian car market, if you do not have a diesel variant, that model will not be number 1. Same reason why i10 is not the best seller. Pity that, cause it is quite a nice car. They sold 98,702 in 2012 compared to 138,470 cars in 2011, that's almost 30% drop. I say it is about time they introduce the 1.1L 3 cylinder CRDi motor to revive sales this or next fiscal. The diesel motor is available in select EU markets only as of now.

Cheers!
Rohan
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Old 23rd January 2013, 21:38   #59
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The i10's sales are under pressure only because it lacks a diesel engine. .
If that is so then what about Wagon R? There is no diesel there either but it is just growing stronger every month. I for one never liked Wagon R but there must be something about this Santro-era car which just flies off the shelves while Santro is long gone.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 21:44   #60
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Default Re: Hyundai i10 and its falling sales

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Originally Posted by rjalihal View Post
In the Indian car market, if you do not have a diesel variant, that model will not be number 1. Same reason why i10 is not the best seller. Pity that, cause it is quite a nice car. They sold 98,702 in 2012 compared to 138,470 cars in 2011, that's almost 30% drop. I say it is about time they introduce the 1.1L 3 cylinder CRDi motor to revive sales this or next fiscal. The diesel motor is available in select EU markets only as of now.

Cheers!
Rohan
Alto has no diesel mill and continues to be the top seller by a HUGE margin over the last 8-9 years. Hence it is not just the availability of a diesel engine that propels the sales of a small car in India.

Maruti has understood the average Indian mentality perfectly, and the Alto continues to reap the rewards. I don't see any other car replacing it at the top of the charts anytime soon, diesel engine or not. After all, not many entry level buyers will want to plonk down an additional 70-80k for a diesel mill, specially when it being a city car doesn't justify that kind of premium.
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