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Old 3rd February 2013, 16:55   #61
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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
If tomorrow, Micromax makes a phone with lot more features & price it close to iPhone, should people queue up to buy Micromax? In India, sales are driven to a major extent by "brand". By brand, I do NOT mean a premium image, but the years of trusted service. Maruti has LOADS of it while GM is still a baby in this context.
Ofcourse, if Micromax makes better product, what is wrong if there is queue to buy it? GM is new just for India, dont you give credit for their worldwide presence? If a product is deemed successful in USA and not present in India, dont we buy such products? Do we really use only those products that have accomplished in the Indian market?


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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
To you, a better product might mean more features, space etc. But for others, it may be better & wider A$$, (perceived) low cost of ownership, trouble free history of ownership reports etc. Preferences change!
Do you think Swift maintenance costs you less? I dont want to detail how much we pay for maintaining Swift and how much we pay for Figo.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
If you ask me, I can NOT live with such a boring interior when I pay that much. So I will NOT buy Sail, as simple as that.
Appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Do Santro & Sail sedan cost the same? Going by your argument, if a 10L car does NOT come with power steering, customers should NOT complain as M 800 also does NOT have a power steering?
People have commented that 800 has better brakes to its capacity than the new Swift. Do you not think a car costing 7 lakhs need to have much better brakes? People still want to buy it and talk bad about other cars!

I really didnt post for arguments sake, I understand every has a opinion and I love that. All I wanted to request is some fairness in the comments. Just request, no forcing.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
But there is a reason why we expect a car like the Sail to be 75k cheaper than the Swift variant-to-variant.

The Swift is a product that revolutionized the market and kick-started to life the premium-hatchback-space, despite the Getz being the first to 'start' the segment. In some ways, it is the spiritual successor to the 800 / Alto. Competition does not affect these Marutis.

Even the Figo (which I believe is a better product than the Swift in almost every way except for the 'old engines' that power it) had to be priced in VFM territory to create any stir at all.

This is precisely the reason why the Sail ought to have been priced much cheaper. Even though it IS a better and more complete product in nearly every way, it will not be able to hold a candle to the Swift, purely because the Maruti is a far more accomplished product. Credit must go to the Maruti badge and the appeal that the Swift exudes.

It's for this reason why the Sail U-VA should have been priced cheaper. Also, we expected it to be positioned competitively given the obvious cost-cutting route GM had taken. but 8 lakhs OTR (Bangalore) is way too much money for a car that is unfortunately perceived to be a Chinese hand-me-down. *facepalm*
Sounds fair. Thats why SAIL being a better product is already cheaper by a 40k rupees mark. For some like me, its good enough, for others, its not.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 4th February 2013 at 00:32. Reason: Merging consecutive posts. Please use EDIT / MULTI QUOTE option within 30-minutes of posting :)
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Old 3rd February 2013, 17:54   #62
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Nice looking entry level sedan (probably the best looking) and great pricing. I am sure this car will give the others a run for their money.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 17:59   #63
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

Whats with most manufacturers not offering a driver seat height adjust feature even in top trims - Sail, Liva, Brio etc ? is it that expensive to add or difficult to incorporate in the design ? IMO, features that cannot be added aftermarket should be available from the manufacturers at least as an option pack.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 18:17   #64
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
If tomorrow, Micromax makes a phone with lot more features & price it close to iPhone, should people queue up to buy Micromax? In India, sales are driven to a major extent by "brand". By brand, I do NOT mean a premium image, but the years of trusted service. Maruti has LOADS of it while GM is still a baby in this context.
So, by this logic - GM Chevy is Micromax and Suzuki is iPhone.
Moreover, in your opinion, it's got higher brand value than the GM. ( again ) Hope you know that this is the same suzuki who was kicked out of US soil.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 18:39   #65
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by k149in View Post
Do you think Swift maintenance costs you less? I dont want to detail how much we pay for maintaining Swift and how much we pay for Figo.
Marutis maintenance may not cost less but the owners have no fear of its maintenance even after 10 years of it's phasing out, no one has to fear about the serviceability even in the remote parts of the country. How many manufacturers can be proud of this fact? This After Sales & Service gives confidence to the owners of Marutis.

However, I must say that this looks like a promising product from GM and it must prove itself before Brio Sedan is launched.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 18:50   #66
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by k149in View Post
...GM is new just for India, dont you give credit for their worldwide presence? If a product is deemed successful in USA and not present in India, dont we buy such products? Do we really use only those products that have accomplished in the Indian market?
I believe it's a serious mistake to rely on certain brands' global positioning & sales figures & bias your buy based on those reputations. You should see how they are performing in India w.r.t to various parameters & take a call based on it.

From a GM service quality perspective, I have a very hot, off the oven case of my friend's Captiva (and a lot more too), which is the MOST premium offering from Chevy @ 20L+. Don't really want to paste it here & take deviations. Trust me, NONE of them want to touch another GM product for a life time. The car is wonderful, but incapable A$$ does the damage.

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Originally Posted by k149in View Post
Do you think Swift maintenance costs you less? I dont want to detail how much we pay for maintaining Swift and how much we pay for Figo.
Looks like you missed a very important word that I wrote. Re-posting & highlighting what I posted, below.

************************************************** ******
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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
...But for others, it may be better & wider A$$, (perceived) low cost of ownership, trouble free history of ownership reports etc...
************************************************** ******

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Originally Posted by k149in View Post
People have commented that 800 has better brakes to its capacity than the new Swift. Do you not think a car costing 7 lakhs need to have much better brakes? People still want to buy it and talk bad about other cars!
Agree completely. Can anybody help it? Swift / Dzire is NOT cheap by any means and people still keep buying these cars & later blame why manufacturers take us for granted!

But it still does NOT inspire me to buy a Sail. I would rather buy a ZDi version and be happy with it, coz Sail just doesn't cut it.

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Originally Posted by k149in View Post
I really didnt post for arguments sake, I understand every has a opinion and I love that. All I wanted to request is some fairness in the comments. Just request, no forcing.
I think there should be arguments, in a healthy way. That's when we come across certain points which we did not see/think earlier. Helps widen our knowledge, perception & what not!

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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
...Moreover, in your opinion, it's got higher brand value than the GM.
Pasting the portion from my previous post to assert what I meant by "brand" & I stand by it!

************************************************** ******
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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
... By brand, I do NOT mean a premium image, but the years of trusted service. Maruti has LOADS of it while GM is still a baby in this context.
************************************************** ******

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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Hope you know that this is the same suzuki who was kicked out of US soil.
Sorry, I do NOT care where they have been kicked out from, what their market positions globally are! It matters to me how their operations are in India, coz that's where I own my car, drive it & get it serviced/repaired. :-)

################################################## #########

Edit::

I do NOT think Sail twins are crap, but I think they are NOT worth at the price mentioned. If a Swift ZDi is beyond my budget, I will look at a Liva D over Sail. To me, both are dull cars, the big "T" takes the cake on the reliability & cheap A$$ cost fronts. Except for cheap initial cost, I do NOT find Sail having any advantages over a Liva (except for properly placed odo console). When I am signing up for a dull interior car, a centre mounted console is the least of my worries.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 3rd February 2013 at 19:07. Reason: Added "Edit" portion
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Old 3rd February 2013, 19:06   #67
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

The car looks a lot better than its competitors at the price range.
Its a big Caaar for sure.(is it me or the rear quarter looks somewhat like the Sunny)
A lot better looking than the typical Chinese looking hatchback.Well done GM.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 20:01   #68
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

Saw one on Bellary Road (maroon coloured) and must say, looked very nice and 'pert'. Size and aspect ratio was spot-on as was the boot job. Should do medium numbers in my opinion.

As an aside, I have owned Chevys since 2008 till date (Aveo + Cruze) and have always found GM service to be not perfect but enthusiastic and eager-to-please. They DO mess up but not as catastrophically as Skoda or VW. However, they DO try their level best to make up and please you.

The 1.3 diesel has scope to become a taxi fleet favourite too.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 20:33   #69
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

Seems like a better job done that the competitor. Need to watch our consumer now, we have a alternative.
The boot, legroom and thigh support is a reciprocal feature. All you cant get at sub 4m car You need to compromise in one of them. But I believe the 370 Lt boot is good enough to pack your stuff.
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Old 4th February 2013, 00:32   #70
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I believe it's a serious mistake to rely on certain brands' global positioning & sales figures & bias your buy based on those reputations. You should see how they are performing in India w.r.t to various parameters & take a call based on it.

From a GM service quality perspective, I have a very hot, off the oven case of my friend's Captiva (and a lot more too), which is the MOST premium offering from Chevy @ 20L+. Don't really want to paste it here & take deviations. Trust me, NONE of them want to touch another GM product for a life time. The car is wonderful, but incapable A$$ does the damage.
I totally get what you're saying.

The brand at the end of the day does it for some. Maruti's reputation in India has a lot going for them. Obviously, they're doing something right! You can't sell 30k units of one car, amongst other cars - and in substantial numbers at that - without getting the perfect formula.

This formula, I've got to admit, has strong doses of reputation and a good history. People buy them because they've done well in the past and they're doing pretty well now. They're akin to a well-oiled machine. I'd like to draw parallels of a different kind, and not cars. Think Universities. Everything runs on reputation. If you are a bright student, you will do well irrespective of the lecturers who teach you in fancy Universities. Think clothes, basic commodities et al. Everything runs on reputation.

Which brings me to the topic: It doesn't mean that GM isn't a reliable brand.

Every manufacturer, including MSIL, have their set of issues. I have heard of unhappy Maruti customers. Some of them are my good friends. One had to shell out over 50k over a 7 year ownership period in parts replacement on a Swift.

I've heard of unhappy Toyota customers, actually just 'customer'

I'm a happy Honda customer, but I know many who aren't quite as happy. We were not happy Ford customers, but that will not stop us from buying a Ford, if and when the time comes. Ford has improved by leaps and bounds, with regard to service-backup.

I've heard of unhappy AND happy GM customers. Some sold their cars off immediately because of the initial costs. Some were frustrated with the service. And some others continue to drive their Astras and Corsas while others have bought new GM products. A friend's family own a Cruze and previously owned an i10. They were unhappy with Hyundai's service-backup and decided to exchange it for a Beat. They're thrilled with GM's after-sales-service.

At the end of the day, it's good to own a car that gives you this 'perceived' peace-of-mind feeling. But it's not like other manufacturers treat us too terribly. Some dealerships / service-outlets are notorious and some brands do have niggles, but if you do stay in a Metropolitan / Cosmopolitan / established city or town, you're fine. Some are lucky, while others aren't. Cars are machines after all and they can go wrong.
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Old 4th February 2013, 13:55   #71
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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I believe it's a serious mistake to rely on certain brands' global positioning & sales figures & bias your buy based on those reputations. You should see how they are performing in India w.r.t to various parameters & take a call based on it.
When Sony came to India, did we not take consideration to the fact that they were so famous in other countries? What about Air-conditioners like O General/Daikin/Hitachi? Didnt we trust them? See, we Indians generally have this quality of "Obsession". Look, we are so obsessed with Honda Activa, no matter, how good other scooters are, still Honda is selling in the ratio of almost 10:1. When we recently went to Honda showroom, they didnt even reduce a penny, they didnt even bother to answer our questions. They said, take it or just leave the showroom.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
From a GM service quality perspective, I have a very hot, off the oven case of my friend's Captiva (and a lot more too), which is the MOST premium offering from Chevy @ 20L+. Don't really want to paste it here & take deviations. Trust me, NONE of them want to touch another GM product for a life time. The car is wonderful, but incapable A$$ does the damage.

Looks like you missed a very important word that I wrote. Re-posting & highlighting what I posted, below.
See, you have indirectly accepted my problem statement. Okay, let me put this way. Maruti consistently sells more than 15,000 Swifts per month, out of which, lets say 10000 are SWift non-ZDis/ZXis. Therefore every month 10k cars with substandard brakes hit the country. How much effort do you think will it take from Maruti to put a better braking system even though its been months since the launch? Lets say, Maruti brings a All New Swift, and now additional to insufficient brakes, lets say we have another new major problem, do you think people will stop buying it? Absolutely NO!
Why cant Maruti fix the problem? Why will Maruti try to change something that really sells so many in numbers and its going just amazing? They wont change because people are still buying it. Why are people still buying it? Because they think other manufacturers cannot guarantee parts/service availability after 10 years or not many service centers are available all through the country. Why cant other companies invest so much in services centers nor can they gurantee parts availability? Because people just dont buy their products inspite they being good products. Now if you own a industry, would you start service centers all over the country even before you are able to sell the products? Would you guarantee parts availability when your products are not just making enough numbers? Which car manufacturer can take such a risk? Nissan/Renault/Chevrolet/Fiat etc, all of them are in the same boat.

See, ultimately, it all boils down to customer not buying, atleast in my opinion. If we dont buy different cars that are infact better, there will be monopoly. When there is monopoly, market will see more substandard cars, a country filled with substandard cars. This is what I dont want to see. You encourage competition, you will see better products. If Hyundai didnt ever come to the country, do you think Maruti would have ever bothered to improve?

Regarding the service of Chevrolet to your friends Captiva, I can say we were so satisfied with the service we got for the Spark. There may be incidents like this and every manufacturer has this. The fact is, at this stage, every company wants to do better in the BRIC countries. If they want to survive, they ought to give better service. This, GM/Nissan/Renault/Fiat are all 100% aware of it. We just need to trust them.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Sorry, I do NOT care where they have been kicked out from, what their market positions globally are! It matters to me how their operations are in India, coz that's where I own my car, drive it & get it serviced/repaired. :-)
When GM was so much into trouble couple of years due to recession, were people not thinking about how its Indian operation will perform? If Suzuki files bankruptcy or collapses in Japan, will it not affect your thoughts before you will buy a Maruti product. Its so simple that when there is a problem elsewhere, it might very well happen here also.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I totally get what you're saying.

The brand at the end of the day does it for some. Maruti's reputation in India has a lot going for them. Obviously, they're doing something right..

..But it's not like other manufacturers treat us too terribly. Some dealerships / service-outlets are notorious and some brands do have niggles, but if you do stay in a Metropolitan / Cosmopolitan / established city or town, you're fine. Some are lucky, while others aren't. Cars are machines after all and they can go wrong.
Sir, I totally agree!

Last edited by suhaas307 : 4th February 2013 at 19:51. Reason: Merging consecutive posts. Please use EDIT / MULTI QUOTE option within 30-minutes of posting :)
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Old 4th February 2013, 14:33   #72
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

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...
Thanks for your points.

My replies would ONLY add to the off-topic discussion we already have had here. So I pass it duly acknowledging that I do NOT buy any of your points. If interested, we can take it over PM.
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Old 4th February 2013, 14:39   #73
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

A very good looking and function job done by GM here. Definitely not a stick-on boot approach like the Dzire. But here's where they missed grabbing my wallet

a) Steering looks very spartan; a bit of dual tone or a dash of chrome would have made it look so much more appealing

b) Power window button near the gear knob when so much space near door pads are wasted? What were the designers thinking? Reminder of the earlier Indica

c) Flap type door handles looks from the 80’s era
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Old 4th February 2013, 14:51   #74
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

The rear looks very Linea'esque i must add. Do we have an official review of it yet or is it in the works?
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Old 4th February 2013, 18:11   #75
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Default Re: Chevrolet Sail (Sedan) Launched @ Rs. 4.99-7.51 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by k149in View Post
Maruti consistently sells more than 15,000 Swifts per month, out of which, lets say 10000 are SWift non-ZDis/ZXis. Therefore every month 10k cars with substandard brakes hit the country. How much effort do you think will it take from Maruti to put a better braking system even though its been months since the launch? ... Why cant Maruti fix the problem? Why will Maruti try to change something that really sells so many in numbers and its going just amazing? They wont change because people are still buying it. ...
I am with you in most of what you have mentioned. Additionally;

- As I read somewhere on this forum itself, if Maruti had emphasized on things like better handling, safety, etc. rather than "kitna deti hein", the average Indian perspective might have been entirely different.
- When a political party is doing harm to the society (or so you believe, from various experiences), you would naturally do a negative publicity to the same (consciously or unconsciously), right? And that is thought to be the most ethical thing to do, along with voting against them.
- Similarly, if most of us know that Maruti is doing a terrible compromise with its customers' safety (and safety of others who happen to be in the vicinity of where they drive their cars), I would say it becomes a moral responsibility on us, the more enlightened (about cars), to do the required negative publicity for Maruti.
- All the more, in Maruti's case, unlike that of political parties or politicians, the proofs for the compromise they have done to safety is much more evident and easily provable by the common man, by just driving the L and V versions of Swift.

Maruti owners, I do not mean to hurt your sentiments, but am criticizing the company that manufactured the cars you are driving. Also, Maruti obviously is doing a lot of things right (indirectly favoring their own profits as well), but their terrible lack of responsibility towards the safety of their cars and customers is what is making me think that I am writing this post for a good cause.
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