Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th February 2013, 01:38   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,188 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

If Tata launches anything which has got to do even 0.00001% with an Indica, It a failure even before the launch. Period.

Indica has run its product life cycle, its time to phase out the entire range rather than trying to milk various engines and combination into that cars portfolio.

Mahindra did the same with the Quanto, recycling stuff from one product to another thinking "Hell ya, Indians will buy anything that we throw at them if its cheap". When they utilised those 1000 crores on a Quanto, they should have researched the market and built something like a Mini SUV on the lines of the Premier Rio and priced it at the Quanto range. Swifts and Figo's would have taken a massive hit from this, but with the Quanto, naa, not even 0.1% of hatchback buyers would buy that thing.

Similarly, Tata should phase out the Indica, get to the drawing board from 0 and come up with an all new hot hatch with some 100 bhp diesel engine option and a price tag of 7 to 8 lakhs along with being ultra reliable. Then the Swift will see some serious competition and Tata some serious sales in this segment.

Last edited by humyum : 8th February 2013 at 01:39.
humyum is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 01:43   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Similarly, Tata should phase out the Indica, get to the drawing board from 0 and come up with an all new hot hatch with some 100 bhp diesel engine option and a price tag of 7 to 8 lakhs along with being ultra reliable. Then the Swift will see some serious competition and Tata some serious sales in this segment.
I am curious to know what is the problem if they use the existing Indica platform and build a good looking car around it? How would you be able to tell if they have used the same platform if they don't tell you they have?
extreme_torque is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 01:47   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,188 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I am curious to know what is the problem if they use the existing Indica platform and build a good looking car around it? How would you be able to tell if they have used the same platform if they don't tell you they have?
Headlights, the famous Indica lined tail lights, the body structure etc etc, its all a give away.

BTW, I have seen that elongated Indica near Pune atleast twice, looked hideous to say the least. isn't that trying to use the same platform?

And customer acceptability factor has shown over the years that the Indica platform is not accepted anymore whatever you do to it, why invest further in it then ? If it was working well for the Indica as it worked for the Swift, a facelift or a model relaunch would have been excellent, but not with a product which is hardly selling now.

Last edited by humyum : 8th February 2013 at 01:49.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 03:02   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Headlights, the famous Indica lined tail lights, the body structure etc etc, its all a give away.

BTW, I have seen that elongated Indica near Pune atleast twice, looked hideous to say the least. isn't that trying to use the same platform?

And customer acceptability factor has shown over the years that the Indica platform is not accepted anymore whatever you do to it, why invest further in it then ? If it was working well for the Indica as it worked for the Swift, a facelift or a model relaunch would have been excellent, but not with a product which is hardly selling now.
Using the same platform doesn't mean they have to use the vertical tailights or the same body structure. I hope you know what they mean when they say the same 'platform'. While each of us is a self confessed marketing expert, please let the argument be rational first before you start explaining merits and demerits.
Example: Ford EcoSport is based on the Fiesta platform and looks nothing like it.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 8th February 2013 at 03:04.
extreme_torque is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 09:53   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
safari_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bengaluru / Bagdal
Posts: 1,058
Thanked: 377 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Sharing platform doesn't mean sharing the same body design. Period. Ex. Innova-Fortuner, Aria-Storme, Swift-Ritz, etc.

According to the ET article TaMo is clearly working on a new body design, so let's stop saying it's another Indica variant.

And the references to the Indica XL are laughable. That car was reportedly aimed at the Taxi segment and in no way could have been a premium hatch. Also, the new car is supposed to be in design phase. How could one spot a test-mule if it is still in design phase? Moreover, last time I checked, the Indica XL project is shelved!

Last but not the least, for all those who think anything that looks like Indica is a failure, you would be surprised to know that the Indica Vista cannot exactly be termed a failure. It has sold more than 2.3L since launch and the last refreshed version has sold about 85K in just over a year's time.

Last edited by safari_lover : 8th February 2013 at 09:55.
safari_lover is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 11:56   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
Sharing platform doesn't mean sharing the same body design. Period. Ex. Innova-Fortuner, Aria-Storme, Swift-Ritz, etc.
A hatchback, A sedan, A Xover, a Mini Van - 4 Entirely different vehicles in 4 different categories from the same platform. That is the norm these days followed by all OEMS. There is nothing wrong with that.
Honda Accord - Honda Pilot - Honda Odyssy. Toyota Camry - Toyota Highlander - Toyota Sienna, it is the same practice for all.
teamveevee is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 12:00   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,188 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Using the same platform doesn't mean they have to use the vertical tailights or the same body structure. I hope you know what they mean when they say the same 'platform'. While each of us is a self confessed marketing expert, please let the argument be rational first before you start explaining merits and demerits.
Example: Ford EcoSport is based on the Fiesta platform and looks nothing like it.
Oh please, from Tata's past history of launching similar products on the same platform in the Indica range is the reason for the judgement. Might be true, might not, but cannot rule it out. Yes, I had a strategy as well as marketing module in my MBA so why not . The argument sounds pretty rational to me.

Here is an article for you to read

--> http://articles.economictimes.indiat...senger-vehicle

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
Sharing platform doesn't mean sharing the same body design. Period. Ex. Innova-Fortuner, Aria-Storme, Swift-Ritz, etc.

According to the ET article TaMo is clearly working on a new body design, so let's stop saying it's another Indica variant.

And the references to the Indica XL are laughable. That car was reportedly aimed at the Taxi segment and in no way could have been a premium hatch. Also, the new car is supposed to be in design phase. How could one spot a test-mule if it is still in design phase? Moreover, last time I checked, the Indica XL project is shelved!

Last but not the least, for all those who think anything that looks like Indica is a failure, you would be surprised to know that the Indica Vista cannot exactly be termed a failure. It has sold more than 2.3L since launch and the last refreshed version has sold about 85K in just over a year's time.
Well, the article above says 75 % change in body, so NO, it cannot be ruled out that it has the Indica genes and secondly, the Indica XL is being 'speculated' to be towards the Taxi segment and not 'confirmed'

Well, I don't know where you checked but here are the pictures of the XL being tested.

Secondly, Indica Vista fails to create excitement like the Swift or the Figo does, hence the failure tag. The 90 bhp Indica did not even create a ripple. Launch a 90 bhp Swift or Figo and see the roar in the market. If 2 thousand or 2500 cabbies buy it a month along with say a 1000 odd private buyers and you want to term that as a success then be my guest.

Here are the pictures

Tata Motors lines up new hatchback, the X0-img_7208.jpg

Tata Motors lines up new hatchback, the X0-img_7235.jpg

Tata Motors lines up new hatchback, the X0-img_7236.jpg

Last edited by humyum : 8th February 2013 at 12:02.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 12:47   #38
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 1,594
Thanked: 439 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
you would be surprised to know that the Indica Vista cannot exactly be termed a failure. It has sold more than 2.3L since launch and the last refreshed version has sold about 85K in just over a year's time.
2.3 L units sold in over 4 years (i.e. < 5K per month) isn't exactly a flattering figure nor is 85K in "just over a year's time".

The first gen Indica had sold a million units in less than 9 years!
directinjection is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 12:54   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,580
Thanked: 823 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

I agree with humyum's argument. In India we are yet to see the 'common platform' but different cars catering to different segments that Honda or Toyota would do.
srishiva is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 13:12   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
safari_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bengaluru / Bagdal
Posts: 1,058
Thanked: 377 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post

Well, I don't know where you checked but here are the pictures of the XL being tested.
Here you go - http://indianautosblog.com/2013/01/t...+Autos+blog%29

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
2.3 L units sold in over 4 years (i.e. < 5K per month) isn't exactly a flattering figure nor is 85K in "just over a year's time".

The first gen Indica had sold a million units in less than 9 years!
Of course it isn't flattering! But doesn't necessarily constitute a failure either. If you look around in the segment, most of the (successful)cars, except the mighty Swift, sell in similar numbers.

Last edited by safari_lover : 8th February 2013 at 13:20.
safari_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 21:26   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I agree with humyum's argument. In India we are yet to see the 'common platform' but different cars catering to different segments that Honda or Toyota would do.
And what makes you think we can't do it?
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 22:12   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
oxyzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Not fixed.
Posts: 1,026
Thanked: 265 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Secondly, Indica Vista fails to create excitement like the Swift or the Figo does, hence the failure tag. The 90 bhp Indica did not even create a ripple. Launch a 90 bhp Swift or Figo and see the roar in the market.
Swift and Figo are driver oriented cars. A 90 BHP will create a ripple in both without a shadow of doubt.
Indica does not have the handling prowess to complement the 90 BHP engine. In other words people who want 90 BHP engines will not want an Indica.

Vista's USP is Space. Not Power. I feel it is a marketing blunder to launch the 90 BHP Vista.
oxyzen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 22:47   #43
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,449
Thanked: 6,438 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
...Mahindra did the same with the Quanto, recycling stuff from one product to another thinking "Hell ya, Indians will buy anything that we throw at them if its cheap". When they utilised those 1000 crores on a Quanto, they should have researched the market and built something like a Mini SUV on the lines of the Premier Rio and priced it at the Quanto range...
Mahindra wanted to get the ROI on the Xylo & they just did what they could do BEST! And it rewarded. There were reports that the Quanto sales actually was higher than expectations.

And I do NOT agree with phasing out Indica range. Let it be there, as a taxi segment. Whatever new hatches / sedans coming from TATA should NOT have even remote relations with these in terms of looks or name / branding. This would ensure TATA gain new acceptance among private buyers (ofcourse VFM offering + reliability factor including). That's what they should be targeting at!

A completely new brand & a design language - TATA, you have NO other way out.
swiftnfurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2013, 10:42   #44
BHPian
 
altius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 216
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

I wish Tata's come up with a better logo. The present one looks so down market and Truckish!
altius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2013, 00:42   #45
BHPian
 
aditya79india's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DELHI
Posts: 253
Thanked: 215 Times
Default Re: Tata Motors lines up new premium hatchback

I think people are carrying serious misconceptions here. Lets first understand what is the meaning of a platform.

A Platform means the floorpan (from dash panel / firewall to approx rear seat bench) + front end (area between the radiator and the dash panel / firewall) and rear floor extension (the floor beyond rear seat bench and rear bumper) with the suspension and steering gear setup.

Thats it. Nothing more, Nothing less.

These parts are visible only in the weld shop proper, during the manufacturing of a car. In a finished product these are invisible to the eye. So when they say the new car will be built on the X0 platform, where is the allusion to Indica? There is none !

Upon the platform are mounted the following:-

1.) Side body (25%) - that creates the side profile of the vehicle with doors etc.
2.) Front end member (25%) - along with bumper, bonnet, and fenders that create the front profile with provisions to carry the headlight and other lamps.
3.) Rear end (25%) - along with tailgate / boot, bumper and rear combination lamp.

Add the above 3 and you get the 75% change they are talking about (though this is just a rough division of the vehicle in blocks / not based on component count or value - anyways cant be expected to be that specific while talking to the press).

Indian market has seen resounding success with platform sharing strategy. Original Alto / Wagon-R, original Swift / Ritz, Toyota Innova / Fortuner, Tata Storme / Aria - all are prime examples of platform sharing, while catering to entirely different segments, preferences and price bands.

Some even wonder if its going to take 2 yrs!!!!!! just to change the styling? What do you think, huh?

1.) The instrument panel / dashboard if you call it, if made in plastic is a very complicated design to mature, 1.25 yrs minimum at full speed. After that development of tools and etching etc 8-10 months minimum again at full speed at specialized outsourced locations.

2.) Development of side body - a major structural member with direct link to crash test requirements, is another challenge in itself. This development can be initiated only after styling freeze. And then it is going to take atleast 1 year for quality matured parts to come our of the dies.

3.) Then there are a plethora of small but very complicated, difficult to calibrate long lead time items - Front and Rear Lamps, Seats, ride and handling setup, homologation and certification by Govt agencies, reliability testing etc etc

Overall, 2 years for a full body change (75%) is a pretty respectable feat.

No, I dont work for Tata Motors and do not own or endorse any of their products.
aditya79india is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tata Motors launches 'Tata Motors Service' for passenger vehicles GrammarNazi The Indian Car Scene 10 30th July 2013 11:21
BMW R&D Head confirms 10 brand-new product lines by December 2014 swiftnfurious The International Automotive Scene 1 14th February 2013 15:12
Tata Motors Enters Motorsports With “Tata Motors Full Throttle”! fiat_tarun Indian Motorsport 28 16th September 2012 12:16
Funfilled Weekend for Customers courtesy Tata Motors, KHT Motors and Aadya Motors anujmishra Indian Car Dealerships 9 27th May 2012 16:47
M&M lines up 7 new vehicles idea The Indian Car Scene 7 22nd November 2010 11:36


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:43.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks