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Old 16th February 2013, 23:22   #46
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Default Re: Grotesque Gurkha needs a Burkha

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But it is definitely at the cost of overall life of an engine.
OT, could you explain the part above? Does that mean the downsized engines will have lesser life, if yes, why?

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Old 16th February 2013, 23:30   #47
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Default Re: Grotesque Gurkha needs a Burkha

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OT, could you explain the part above? Does that mean the downsized engines will have lesser life, if yes, why?

Spike
No I did not mean downsized engines will have reduced life. Only downsized engines with higher outout is likely to have reduced life.
FOr instance, two engines of 1.5 L and 2 L producing 100 hp, the later is likely to have better (higher) overhaul life.
But in many cases the former is happening.
Sorry if my earlier post was not clear.
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Old 17th February 2013, 13:16   #48
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Hey thanks! Corrections made. It's "derived" from the OM616. I think taking it from 2.4 -> 2.6 entailed nothing more than reboring? Here's what Force had to say:
A brochure of the Trax Challenger that uses the TD-2650 F (II EG) / TD-2650 FTI (III) engine, says that the Bore x Stroke is 90.9 x 100 mm, giving Displacement of 2596 cc. Source : http://www.driveinside.com/car-broch...lenger-432.pdf

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM616, OM616 used in the Trax has Bore x Stroke (mm) 90.9 X 92.4, giving Displacement of 2399 cc.

So GTO, they stroked it ... not bored it out.

Cheers,

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Old 17th February 2013, 15:05   #49
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This gurkha has "flop" written all over it!! I am frankly shocked by the pricing. What were the marketing and sales team at force motors smoking when they decided on the pricing eh? I think they bid against each other on who Will win the highest price at the end. Honestly , with this kind of pricing force are not going anywhere.
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Old 17th February 2013, 18:06   #50
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Using 2,650 cc of any fuel to come up with a pathetic 80-odd horsepower is criminal in today's world.

Having said that, there is nothing else in the same price band that offers basic protection from the elements (i.e., roof and windows), seats meant for human backsides and air-conditioning on a proper 4x4 with lockers all around.

Why do we always have to compromise? Especially while paying serious money for essentially decades-old (half-a-century for competition!) vehicles that have been 'refreshed' with some local jugaad?

Its not like either of these companies is offering something brand new.
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Old 17th February 2013, 20:47   #51
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Using 2,650 cc of any fuel to come up with a pathetic 80-odd horsepower is criminal in today's world.
Beg to differ. 80 HP is more than enough. You need more HP for speed.
80 HP with a well matched powerband and gearbox is more than enough for this class of vehicle and its use case.

Debunking a vehicle just because it based on a older platform is incorrect thinking. Finally it is the result which matter not the methods.

I agree though Force should have engineered and thought through the design a little more before launching the vehicle.
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Old 17th February 2013, 22:12   #52
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
This gurkha has "flop" written all over it!! I am frankly shocked by the pricing. What were the marketing and sales team at force motors smoking when they decided on the pricing eh? I think they bid against each other on who Will win the highest price at the end. Honestly , with this kind of pricing force are not going anywhere.

IMHO an established company will have a Marketing / Sales team who work out the pricing not just by 'smoking' and deciding !

Lets leave the actual numbers to do the talking.
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Old 17th February 2013, 22:23   #53
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by Saptarshi B View Post
IMHO an established company will have a Marketing / Sales team who work out the pricing not just by 'smoking' and deciding !

Lets leave the actual numbers to do the talking.
Exactly, that's why i used the word in the quote! An established company must have thought about these factors, especially the market position, target audience , feasibility etc etc. For a jeep, that does not have ABS( i know thar also does not , but its priced much lower,but since this fellow is priced much higher, that would have earned it some brownie points), commanding a price of 8 big ones is simply no no. When a much better vehicle(read thar) with a much better A.S.S is available at a lesser cost why would people be willing to buy a not-so-known brand that too by giving a premium?

Its purely my personal opinion that force motors marketing/sales team went over ambitious(read greedy) while deciding the pricing of this one!

As you said, lets see the actual numbers !
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Old 18th February 2013, 09:12   #54
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Congratulations to Force motors to finally muster the willpower to relaunch the Gurkha. Gives a great opportunity to get a true blue offroader and a great platform to build a real monster.

It's obvious from several posts that this vehicle does not appeal to the masses because it does not have the "looks" of a Jeep, which seems to the key ingredient in Thar's success.

But to those who are not swayed by internet forum popularity and know the real value of an "Almost a G" wagen, this is a godsend.

Funny how the logic of adding parts to justify the Thar's price is not being applied here. Probably because it might end up higher than what Force is charging if the Thar's calculation generosity is used for Diff locks, Snorkel, A/C, etc.

Just hope that the vehicles on display are more bling for the show than the actual product.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
When a much better vehicle(read thar) with a much better A.S.S is available at a lesser cost why would people be willing to buy a not-so-known brand that too by giving a premium?
Hmm, on what basis is Thar a better vehicle?

Illegitimate chassis with mish mash of older parts?

Unsuitable for real offroading Suspension?

Interiors that makes a Rickshawallah cringe?

Must be the classic Jeep looks then, the cause of half the problems in the Thar with the limited room for engine and accessories (read a/c compressor, intercooler placement, etc.).

If threads on TBHP are anything to go by, the A.S.S. for Thar seems quite asinine as well, and the few reports about Force personal vehicles division seems OK.

So, what must one smoke to think the Thar is better?

Cheers
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:16   #55
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Thanks GTHang - I couldn't have said it any better.

After having an older generation Gurkha as my daily drive for close to the last two years, I have somehow started believing that Force is actually giving a lot more value for your money, than any other manufacturer. Thar, by contrast, deserves to be at least 2L cheaper than it currently is!

The reliability of this vehicle, coupled with it's comfort & ergonomics (relative to Thar, MM*, CJ*, MG*), makes it very easy to own and maintain and easy to drive around daily respectively.

The Snorkel, I have found, has more than just one advantage. Apart from keeping out Water, it also reduces dust accumulation in the Air Filter. This is a major boon, especially in Northern India, which tends to have a lot of dust storms, especially off-road in the open.

The Differential Locks, more than make up for the relatively lesser articulation of this platform. Try towing another vehicle on slushy, slippery ground, and one can see what I am talking about. Additionally, with the correct usage, it doesn't need any maintenance either. I tend to only use the Rear Locks to get out of most situations, and have had to engage the front locks only about 3-4 times till date.

The Transfer Case allows a 4H to 4L transition while moving (very low speeds of course). That's worth something, ain't it?

The Ground Clearance is fantastic. In the new one they are offering under-sized tyres, to presumably, offer a better ride and lesser roll, at the cost of about 25 mm GC. If one so desires, go back to 7.5x16 and enjoy the difference. Coupled with a relatively Short Wheelbase, you will see that it is not easy to beach a Gurkha.

The PTO Option, allows you to be creative. Hook up a Hydraulic pump with the PTO and you can drive a number of different units from this (winch, compressor, generator, tube-well!). Who else gives you this?

Then you have the smaller things like AC, 5 proper seats for Adults, Lower NVH, Excellent Cabin Space.

80 HP is kinda sufficient for the intended application. Especially, when you find that the Gurkha can generate an enormous amount of Torque at close to Idle RPM (1000-1200 RPM). This allows the Gurkha to crawl over situations without mush fuss or drama, where some of it's competitors are happily spinning their wheels and basically making better photographs! One big reason, why Gurkha's in action photos don't look as cool. There is no drama! :(
Yes, on the Highway, it is a only a staid performer, and it will be happy cruising at about 100 kmph.

Turning Radius (5.5 odd meters), is best in class for a vehicle of this size and shape. Damn easy to drive around in Old Delhi (for those who know what that can mean).

Having said that, the new Gurkha with all it's embellishments, looks B*S*! I actually, kinda like the Green one, minus the Plastic Fenders. But, I guess they may be friendlier to CMVR norms.
They have improved upon the Interiors a lot, and they really should offer older customers, the new interiors and the new Facia (old/original?) as an upgrade option.

My experience, till date, with Service and Support has been pretty decent, as I have said in some of the other threads earlier. Except the Front Axle Assembly, Diff Locks, AC-PS Belts and Transfer Case, the Gurkha shares components with other Trax vehicles, and that makes it pretty easy to find general spares.

P.S. - It's good to see the competitor Fan boys out in full strength again. Speaks volumes about the strengths of this particular product.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:41   #56
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

As one of the few who is familiar with both Thar CRDe and Gurkha, I would pick Gurkha over Thar any day based on the value. But I don't like the looks of Gurkha, Sorry! Besides, in my area, there are way too many Trax based people carriers, I don't want to be hailed down at very turn. So I went with the good old MM550.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:45   #57
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Is there no getting away from Indian companies showing their complete lack of competence or interest in sophisticated aesthetic design and quality. The exterior looks absolutely ghastly, and the interior looks like the work of mentally retarded people.

Still, I won't complain for what is a diff lock equipped vehicle at this price.

What I find hard to stomach is the absence of HVAC on the soft top. Just because I would like to take the top off on the spring and autumn days doesn't mean that I will choose to live with the killing heat and freezing cold in the summers and winters of north India.

But that too may not be too much of a problem. I presume that all the parts can be swapped into the softtop from the hard top version.

On the whole, if I didn't have my SFX, I would be first in line to buy one. But dear god, what a tremendous display of the Indian lack of sophistication in design and engineering.
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:49   #58
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Looks like they didn't put much effort on this one. Too bad. Force have a very solid platform to seriously fight the Thar. Healthy competition would have been great for the market.

Normally snorkels make a vehicle look good. But there is something wrong with
the one on this Gurkha. It doesn't suit the vehicle somehow. Does it hamper visibility for the driver?
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:57   #59
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
\]
Normally snorkels make a vehicle look good. But there is something wrong with
the one on this Gurkha. It doesn't suit the vehicle somehow. Does it hamper visibility for the driver?
No, it does not hamper visibility! If anything, the visibility from the Driver seat in the Gurkha is outstanding.
In any case, different designs appeal to different persons differently, so I will not counter your point about the Design fitment of the Snorkel. However, one thing I would say is that the Snorkel is what makes this vehicle stand out of the crowd, and gets this a lot of attention everywhere. The Snorkel itself is of a very high quality and finish.
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Old 18th February 2013, 12:06   #60
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

I agree that the new gurkha looks ghastly and is only BS3 for now, But i don't understand what all the fuss is about regarding the price. It is not like the Thar is VFM either,

Thar
Showroom price for the That Crde:7.2 Lakh
Good after market hard top: 50k
Front facing rear seats with seat belt: 20k
Snorkel that actually works: 10k
Alloys (Thar comes with steel rims): 30k
Diff locks: ?

Total= 8.3 lakh

Gurkha is sold with all of the above @8.5 lakh.

Both of them don't set any benchmark for quality either. If you ask me, i think both of them are overpriced for what they offer.

Cheers
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