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Old 18th February 2013, 12:18   #61
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Even the snorkel on the Gurkha looks like the work of some local illiterate mechanic than something done by competent and experienced engineers.

I cannot get over how much worse this vehicle looks than pre face lift gurkha which only had the bad snorkel design. I like the round headlamps but in EVERY OTHER WAY the original was a much better looking vehicle. The lack of A/C in the soft top and the lack of tach are also very serious short comings.

The pricing I don't mind at all. in light of what the gypsy and thar cost, for a diff lock equipped vehicle, I am happy to pay the asking sum. but I am discouraged by the quality control. That interior is really terrible, not just in design by quality.

Last edited by Harbir : 18th February 2013 at 12:22.
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Old 18th February 2013, 13:01   #62
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibhu_f430 View Post
Diff locks: ?

Total= 8.3 lakh

Gurkha is sold with all of the above @8.5 lakh.
You have not priced the most expensive item. Manual diff locks can cost a lot, at least 75K to 1L.
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Old 18th February 2013, 13:48   #63
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Just called TAPL Force, the Delhi Force dealer. They confirmed the new Gurkha is with them. However the vehicle is currently at Greater Noida auto expo and will be available for viewing and test drive from March 1 onwards. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 18th February 2013, 13:59   #64
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

My first reaction few days ago was no different to 90% of the posts here -- it looks ghastly. So, I gave it a few days and looked again and my opinion has changed a bit.

1. I'll wait till the real product hits the showroom. Compared to the launch vehicles, almost every test vehicle looks a lot more bearable. If they bring it out without the ghastly body kit (or if it can even be taken off), give it a plain stark black look and it becomes a lot better. Same for the dash, what makes it terrible is the 3-tone/colour treatment. Make it a single colour and it will look much better.

2. If the BS4 pricing is not off by more than 50K, this ticks off all the right boxes. It is reliable, serviceable (well, most parts) across India, has AC, the HT looks decent and is leak-free going by the old Gurkhas. And, of course, the diff locks.

I would, obviously, love to see something with the dimensions of a SWB Pajero/LC in this product segment, with an engine that's modern and reliable and has good authorized service support. But, looking at how automobile sales are slowing down, I doubt if any company will actually dare to invest money into bringing a brand new platform (non-monocoque) that won't do crazy numbers. And we are not even taking into account the BS5 angle, which affect all players in this niche.

So, in the sub-10L serious 4x4 options, the playground is going to be the Thar, Gurkha and Gypsy. (there is the unknown in the form of whatever DB is cooking up at TMIL, but it may eventually turn out to be a crossover than a purebred and it is not on the marke yet).

Thus, for any buyer, the choice boils down to the value of the core platform than comfort. From that aspect, the Gurkha is top of the pile in terms of value. Other than a tyre upgrade, there is little else the vehicle needs.

But, we still have to see the actual customer vehicles and for metro-city-slickers like me the BS4 version has to roll out.

Last edited by codelust : 18th February 2013 at 14:01.
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Old 18th February 2013, 13:59   #65
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibhu_f430 View Post
Diff locks: ?

Total= 8.3 lakh

Gurkha is sold with all of the above @8.5 lakh.

Both of them don't set any benchmark for quality either. If you ask me, i think both of them are overpriced for what they offer.

Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You have not priced the most expensive item. Manual diff locks can cost a lot, at least 75K to 1L.

Hello vibhu_f430 & Samurai,

In all fairness to the Thar, the Gurkha also lacks one of the most important aspect of modern day vehicles - a CRDI engine !!
An engine thats -
- more powerful
- less polluting
- more efficient
- less noisy

I completely agree to the point that both of them are way overpriced for what they offer.

Regards,
Varun

Last edited by powertrain : 18th February 2013 at 14:04.
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Old 18th February 2013, 14:03   #66
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Default Re: Grotesque Gurkha needs a Burkha

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
When the whole world is moving towards downsized engines . . .Spike
If whole word = Mahindra, then fee fi fo fum, I think I can smell the Quanto's engine being plonked in the Thar ! What say folks?

Cheers
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Old 18th February 2013, 15:54   #67
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibhu_f430 View Post
I agree that the new gurkha looks ghastly and is only BS3 for now, But i don't understand what all the fuss is about regarding the price. It is not like the Thar is VFM either,

Thar
Showroom price for the That Crde:7.2 Lakh
Good after market hard top: 50k
Front facing rear seats with seat belt: 20k
Snorkel that actually works: 10k
Alloys (Thar comes with steel rims): 30k
Diff locks: ?

Total= 8.3 lakh

Gurkha is sold with all of the above @8.5 lakh.

Both of them don't set any benchmark for quality either. If you ask me, i think both of them are overpriced for what they offer.

Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
Hello vibhu_f430 & Samurai,

In all fairness to the Thar, the Gurkha also lacks one of the most important aspect of modern day vehicles - a CRDI engine !!
An engine thats -
- more powerful
- less polluting
- more efficient
- less noisy

I completely agree to the point that both of them are way overpriced for what they offer.

Regards,
Varun
Though I am a big fan of the Gurkha I am very much disappointed with the price and engine choice. Had the Gurkha been launched with the 2.2 L from the Force One then a Price tag of 8.5-9.0 lakhs Ex. would have been very much acceptable. But with the 2.6L unit from its commercial division, this price is too high given the comfort and refinement of this engine.

Just think, if and when Force motors do Plonk in the 2.2 Unit in the gurkha from the Force one, then I am guessing the price will creep up to 9.5-10 Lakhs Ex-showroom. And that is just not acceptable.
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Old 18th February 2013, 16:44   #68
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

the top four 4x4 vehicles in the international 4x4 scene are:

1. wrangler
2. defender
3. LC 70
4. G- wagon

could some one confirm whats the four similarities in the above four?

india is not yet a mature market for an international standard 4x4 dedicated offroad only vehicle. (wrangler is going to be a 20lakh plus vehicle).

in more than half of the posts in this thread, we have compared our wishes as per options available in 4x4 vehicles at international level.

indian OEMs (read TATA, M&M and FM) always made vehicles as per the purchasing power of the indian customer and not per their wish lists. its simple business!

so what we get in terms of Thar and Gurkha, its enough to cater to indian 4x4 automotive scene, who are more used to spending 3-4 lakhs on ex army rebuilds of 540,550 and Gypsy.

Thar was a result after years of negelect by M&M for the need for a dedicated 4x4 offroad vehicle. which im sure 90-95% of offroad enthusiasts liked it and bought it. as some people have called it a hybrid, juggaad or contraption....it works and its a hit. its loved like an old crush who has come back in life and made every one crazy. thanks to BD.

FM saw the Thar flying off the shelves and MM laughing all the way to the bank and MM again creating and leading a non existence segment few years back, dominated by scrap vehicle from the army.

so FM also went back to its inventory and gave re birth to Gurkha (same as what MM did with Thar) and gave few more options which were missing in Thar.

rather than re-inventing the wheel all over again, MM and FM simply used and upgraded what they already had in their stable and saved themselves a lot of investment for a very small segment of dedicated 4x4 offroad vehicles.

now coming to the options/features available both in Thar and Gurkha. please understand that whats we are getting in these vehicles is very much excepted by indian standards and is value for money for individual taste and needs, please dont compare them with whats available outside india!

i still think that old school 4x4 with body on chassis, live axles, basic cabin options is the best 4x4 dedicated offroad vehicle. thats why ex-army vehicles are being rebuild for indian offroad scene!

thats what exactly Thar and Gurkha are.....Body on Chassis. but MM went one step ahead to give a CRDe and IFS in Thar.

now going back to international standards of 4x4 offroad vehicles, they come fitted with neccessary options for certain countries which are luxury for us indians looking at what MM and FM give us.

LC 70 is not sold in North America and Europe, but its a BIG hit in Asia, Africa and down under. its as basic as it could be.

Wrangler has evolved over the years and now it comes fully loaded with comfort options along with 4x4 options. it changed the concept of trail blazing in the comforts of luxury.

Defender is also pretty basic in its design and options/features and still a rugged "The Best 4x4xFar" as the sticker says on its rear window!

G-Wagen....discontinued as of now, but still made on demand for its exclusive middle east customers.

All above four were born 30 plus years ago.
All were intended for military use.....but walked across into civilian use.
All are body on chassis, Old School.
All have live axles, front and rear.
All are still sold in original form (body on chassis and live axles) after so many years and inspite of technological advancements.

so my point is, that what MM and FM are giving us are not lacking in any equipment, but might lack in comfort/luxury options to individual wants and needs.

If FM is offering the below mentioned options, its a VFM at its best.
OE snorkle.
OE hard top.
OE Power Steering.
OE AC.
OE Diff locks.

i would say buy a Thar or Gurkha....they are still going to be cheaper than the Wrangler 2.8 Ltr diesel being launched soon at 20 lakhs plus!

some are buying thar, some are still going for ex army scrap, some are going for gypsy, some are going to go for Gurkha, some will wait for a product from Tata, some will go for Wrangler.....every one will go for what suits his/her needs and wants.

some of us come back from developed countries and start comparing the indian OE offering with whats available outside india.

fortuner, endy, pajero, etc are all above 15-20 lakh segment, and getting an indian made 4x4 hardcore offroad vehicle under 10 lakhs is a good offering.

guys lets have a positive criticism and enhance or modify the Thar or Gurkha as per individual needs.

i hope i didnt hurt anyone's sentiments in my above post.
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Old 18th February 2013, 17:38   #69
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

It is not that they lack in "comfort/luxury options to individual wants and needs" but the horrid quality and the really very poor grade of design and engineering, that is MUCH poorer than is justified by the high value.

When you look at the vehicles in the 8 lac price range, NOTHING is as badly engineered and badly built as the mahindras, tatas and force vehicles.

Last edited by Harbir : 18th February 2013 at 17:41.
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Old 18th February 2013, 17:41   #70
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

not every one is BD!

well as i said, we get basic basic stuff from MM and FM....they do all this to save on cost and improve upon in later versions of upgraded models.

4x4x4
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Old 18th February 2013, 17:56   #71
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Oh come on. People need to stop being so tolerant of crap. THe companies know customers are accepting of low standards so they have no incentive to improve.

What justification is there, for example, for a dashboard design in the thar where fingers get jammed between dashboard and turn signal stalk? Couldn't they have engineered a better solution for the same cost? Couldn't Mahindra have fitted the correct heater core from the upper level bolero model to the thar from the beginning instead of fitting early thars with a heater core that has to be removed to install an AC? On the first new thar I saw on the showroom floor, the hood could not be unlatched, the drivers side didn't open from the outside. What cost cutting justifies this terrible quality control? Why do the A/C vents not swing properly so they can be aimed properly?

They sell us garbage and we do their job for them by arguing on their behalf that it has to be done for the sake of low cost even though there are all kinds of faults that are are not justifiable.

Its not done, man. If we indians are going to compete with the world, we have stop excusing ourselves and our companies low standards and excuses.
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Old 18th February 2013, 18:03   #72
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
G-Wagen....discontinued as of now, but still made on demand for its exclusive middle east customers.
Daimler Steyr Puch has confirmed production of the G Wagen till 2015. In addition to the AMG version, they are still available in G350, and G350 Professional trim without the bells and whistles in different parts of the world.

True that they are popular with the Arabs, ironic, since it was the Shah of Iran who originally commissioned the vehicle, but it is very much part of the MB lineup worldwide.

You have made a general comparison of all the popular offroaders in the world. Which of the two, the Thar, or the Gurkha comes closest to a world class offering? Interiors and other luxuries not included.

The Gurkha interior might look sparse, but then again, I would not want to be scrubbing mud off my veneered oak dash and Nappa leather interior anyways. But compare it to the Thar, and notice the absence of knee breaking jugaad fitments, and hacksaw cut corners. The original Engineering in every aspect of the Gurkha is eons ahead of the "roadside mechanic" jugaad style of engineering trumpeted around by Mahindra Thar creators.

At least give credit to Force for having more than one test mule, rather than having a local garage built "Prototype" that is nowhere close to actual production model.

Cheers
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Old 18th February 2013, 18:33   #73
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
It's obvious from several posts that this vehicle does not appeal to the masses because it does not have the "looks" of a Jeep, which seems to the key ingredient in Thar's success. Cheers
I personally prefer the CJ/Wrangler look, but given that Gurkha is a much more practical, I would pick the Gurkha over the Thar any day. However, I was just upset that they ruined the classic G-wagen look by trying to copy DC Design and do some hideous front grille and bumper. If I were to buy it, I would just replace it with the classic Gurkha Facia with round headlights and simple grille and bumpers, like the red vehicle clicked testing. I also wish they had used this opportunity to bump up the power output to 90bhp like the Traveller.
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Old 18th February 2013, 18:51   #74
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Exclamation Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
...4x4x4


PS : Welcome back, Parm !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
... like the red vehicle clicked testing....
I also hope that the actual production vehicle is like that red vehicle, it was nice to see the original round headlights back.
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Old 18th February 2013, 18:56   #75
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Default Re: Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs

My family were dealers for Force (then Tempo) up till 2004, when we gave up the dealership and went our separate ways. 9 years later i can see the company has not learnt anything. Force remains a cash rich company with no pulse of what the customer wants or desires.

In 2002 we literally begged them not to phase out the 307 Matador as it was a raging success in the Northern markets of J&K, Punjab, and Rajasthan. Or if they were so adamant to let us locally build the body (we had the facility in Jammu) and source the chassis from them. They of course did not agree and phased out the Matador and introduced the Tempo Excel based on the Tempo Traveler format. The vehicle went onto be spectacular failure due to its dodgy axle, a loss which was then passed onto us dealers.

Like mentioned by Behram sir these vehicles give a chance to manufacturers to make something customized and truly “for the people” but Force continues to live under the rock. As we saw in the case of the Force One launch, just getting Amitabh Bachan on board doesn’t amount to marketing. Launching a SUV in the 11 lakh bracket without ABS, airbags is just sheer stupid.

In my previous company we did a lot of dealer development work for Chevrolet (CSIPL) and it’sshocking that across the board dealers are left so clueless by the manufacturers. Dealers are your best source for market/consumer feedback, treat them as an extension of the company and not some random entity

I am looking at these pictures of the launch if you can call it that and the immatureness of it is shocking. Firstly what are these neon colors, will any self respecting 4x4 lover find himself/herself in one of these Barbie doll contraptions (my apology to Barbie doll fans).
BS3 and no BS4 really? so effectively you’ve ruled out any sales in the metros where the consumer has both the money and desire to have a lifestyle vehicle. A city like delhi where im based would kill to have a Mercedes powered 4x4, throw on some nice alloys and its perfect. Similarly for demand centers like Punjab, Chandigarh, Rajasthan.
With the right design and specifications in place this could be a desi version of the G Wagon – a true off roaders which would command a snob value. I hope they release a BS4, CRDE powered engine Gurkha asap

I had a Tempo trax judo from 2001-2009 and it was a solid, reliable workhorse with one of the best engines I’ve driven. If Force could have added the softer aesthetics to it and made it more appealing it would have given serious competition to the so called SUV’s in today’s Indian market. They keep missing the trick and it’s so frustrating as a dealer, owner and G Wagon fan

I have a query so being a BS3 grade vehicle; if I was to buy it in a non metro city (i.e. – Jammu), register it there and then use it in a metro (Delhi/ Mumbai); would there be any problem in that? Please throw some light on this.
Cheers

Kundan
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