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Old 13th March 2013, 11:58   #151
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Finance minister P Chidambaram's cabinet colleague, heavy industries minister Praful Patel has sought exemption for utility vehicles such as Mahindra Bolero and Tata Sumo from the 3% additional excise duty proposed in the Budget.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/18942621.cms
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Old 13th March 2013, 13:01   #152
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Originally Posted by rohit0103 View Post
Finance minister P Chidambaram's cabinet colleague, heavy industries minister Praful Patel has sought exemption for utility vehicles such as Mahindra Bolero and Tata Sumo from the 3% additional excise duty proposed in the Budget.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/18942621.cms
I wonder what kind of compensation he's getting from Tata and mahindra ; )
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Old 18th March 2013, 07:51   #153
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Global carmakers Proton, Peugeot, Citroen, Kia shelve India plans due to tough financial conditions - locations like China, Brazil,Argentina and Russia in demand.


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A fleet of carmakers such as Proton, PSA Citroen, Kia, Geely, and Chery seems to have shelved their plans to drive into India, and has instead reset destination to other emerging markets such as China and Brazil
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/19026382.cms
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Old 22nd March 2013, 08:04   #154
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Government may clarify SUV tax to keep off sedans from 30% tax slab.

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Certain long cars normally referred as sedan have come under the SUV definition of the government and ended up paying higher taxes after the February 28 budget.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/19119611.cms
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Old 22nd March 2013, 11:23   #155
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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Government may clarify SUV tax to keep off sedans from 30% tax slab.



http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/19119611.cms
there is still 8 days to go for notification before 1st Apr. So, as per this :

1.>4-metre length,
2.>1500cc engine
3.>170mm GC
4. Two-Box
is a SUV and 30% tax bracket.

Or will they tweak with 1, 2 and 3 as well ?

If it stays like this, Ertiga (Engine CC), Quanto (Length), Duster will still escape.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 14:23   #156
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

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Originally Posted by rohit0103 View Post

Or will they tweak with 1, 2 and 3 as well ?

If it stays like this, Ertiga (Engine CC), Quanto (Length), Duster will still escape.

No, they are going to introduce the vehicular structure into the condition to clear the air. This is by bringing the in the two box classification. Since sedans are three box, they will be off the axe.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 14:37   #157
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

What about one box structure? If the Innova/Ertiga are reskinned to a one box structure, they too can get away with reduced tax.
Also what if the two box SUV is reskinned to a three box one? Something like a small, covered load bay? Something like a lifestyle pickup....
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Old 22nd March 2013, 14:41   #158
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Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
No, they are going to introduce the vehicular structure into the condition to clear the air. This is by bringing the in the two box classification. Since sedans are three box, they will be off the axe.
Two Box and Three Box, makes sense. Thats OK to differentiate between SUV and sedan.

My concerns is: are they going to tweak Length, Engine capacity or GC as well as mentioned in the Budget.

If they do away with length, even Quanto/Duster will be a SUV. Although, I doubt that, since hatchbacks are 2 box and less than 4 m. So, not tweaking length

If they do away with Engine cc or reduce it, even Ertiga would come in SUV category.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 14:47   #159
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
What about one box structure? If the Innova/Ertiga are reskinned to a one box structure, they too can get away with reduced tax.
Also what if the two box SUV is reskinned to a three box one? Something like a small, covered load bay? Something like a lifestyle pickup....
How do we define One box ? Maruit Van, EECO, mini Bus Winger ? How many like to ride one, let alone own one - that too, just to save 3 % ?

Again, the car companies can either absorb or pass on, but they will not be tweaking their models just for this 3% ? imagine XUV look like a tailless pony.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 14:53   #160
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Which SUV falls in the sub 4 meter, <1500cc, <170mm gc category? Maybe the EcoSport. Also may be the Quanto, and the RiO, although I guess RiO and Quanto ground clearance is >170mm.
Duster doesnt fit into this category and since 2 box has been clarified sedans like SX4 escape the tax.

Honestly speaking is it worth buying a <4 meter <170mmgc, <1500cc engined SUV? Better to buy a sporty sedan or a hot hatch instead...
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Old 22nd March 2013, 15:17   #161
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

apachelongbow, you are getting it wrong or may be approaching from another angle. In order to be a SUV, a vehicle will have to meet all 3 (as of now) + Box category . If it falls below on either of the 3 conditions, it will be a non SUV.
So, Quanto, even with GC of 200, will still be non SUV because of length being <4m.

Seems, there will be 4 rates of categories of Excise duty:

1. Length <4 m, Engine <1200 Petrol, GC=NA. Excise -12%.

2. Length <4 m, Engine <1500 Diesel, GC=NA Excise -12%.

3. Length >4 m, Engine >1500, GC >170 | Two Box |SUV ==>Excise -30%.

4. Length >4 m, Engine >1500, GC =NA | Three Box |Car ==>Excise -27%.

5. Length >4 m, Engine <1500, GC =NA | Three Box |Car ==>Excise -24%.

6. Length >4 m, Engine <1500, GC =NA | Two Box |Car ==>Excise -24%.

Last edited by rohit0103 : 22nd March 2013 at 15:43. Reason: Better clarity
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Old 22nd March 2013, 16:15   #162
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohit0103 View Post
apachelongbow, you are getting it wrong or may be approaching from another angle. In order to be a SUV, a vehicle will have to meet all 3 (as of now) + Box category . If it falls below on either of the 3 conditions, it will be a non SUV.
So, Quanto, even with GC of 200, will still be non SUV because of length being <4m.

Seems, there will be 4 rates of categories of Excise duty:

1. Length <4 m, Engine <1200 Petrol, GC=NA. Excise -12%.

2. Length <4 m, Engine <1500 Diesel, GC=NA Excise -12%.

3. Length >4 m, Engine >1500, GC >170 | Two Box |SUV ==>Excise -30%.

4. Length >4 m, Engine >1500, GC =NA | Three Box |Car ==>Excise -27%.

5. Length >4 m, Engine <1500, GC =NA | Three Box |Car ==>Excise -24%.

6. Length >4 m, Engine <1500, GC =NA | Two Box |Car ==>Excise -24%.
Thanks. Got it. So for example if Mahindra wants Scorpio to meet requirements of a non SUV they must either
a) reduce engine to <1500cc
b) reduce length to below 4 meters
c) reduce ground clearance to below 170mm
d) change bodyshell to 3 or 1 box car.

So is it not easy for the SUV maker to lower the gc to below 170mm by simply adding a hanging rod or a bolt, which can be removed by the customer or at time of delivery?
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Old 22nd March 2013, 16:57   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Thanks. Got it. So for example if Mahindra wants Scorpio to meet requirements of a non SUV they must either
a) reduce engine to <1500cc
b) reduce length to below 4 meters
c) reduce ground clearance to below 170mm
d) change bodyshell to 3 or 1 box car.

So is it not easy for the SUV maker to lower the gc to below 170mm by simply adding a hanging rod or a bolt, which can be removed by the customer or at time of delivery?
The prime differentiator, between SUV and Sedan would be, as per the new govt law and as per my understanding, Length > 4M and then, either 2 box or 3 box. Engine and GC will come into play later.

So, if Mahindra somehow manages to make current Scorpio 1 box or 3 box, then it would not be a SUV- it will be considered a Sedan.

So, if Mahindra keep current Scorpio and reduce engine cc <1500, then it would not be a SUV- it will be considered a Sedan. (Same as Ertiga, I guess)

So, if Mahindra keep current Scorpio and reduce GC <170, then it would not be a SUV- it will be considered a Sedan. (but, practically, who wants a SUV with GC<170 ?) Adjustable GC, as mentioned by you..hmm, interesting workaround.

If there is mini Scorpio <4m, then irrespective of Engine or Body type or GC, it will be small car.

Bottom line : if any vehicle meets all the 4 parameters, ONLY Then, it will be SUV.
PS.As per my understanding of proposed change. unless govt decides to word the notification in some other manner.

Somehow I feel, Govt should go with 2 Box, L > 4m and Engine >1500 = SUV, irrespective of GC. No one who wants to drive a SUV will go with a GC<170. ?

Last edited by rohit0103 : 22nd March 2013 at 17:03. Reason: correction
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Old 1st April 2013, 13:17   #164
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

i dont suppose there has been a notification issued by the Govt on the new differentiation between SIV and Sedan. So, have the manufacturers hiled the prices of sedans coming into the new category ?
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Old 1st April 2013, 16:09   #165
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Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

The government should instead taxing big cars should incentvize the weight reduction by taxing low weight cars. This will have a double benefit:
1) Low weight means a low power engine can suffice performance meaning better mileage.
2) Low weight means existing engines also have less problems in propelling reducing fuel consumption.
Europe had such a strategy but now they have gone back without retrospect. Hope India takes a lead ahead of Europe and flags off an exotic and innovative approach in Indian OEMs for weight reduction.
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