Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st March 2013, 15:48   #121
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,471
Thanked: 19,385 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The question is not about paying a little more. Its about fairness. Why should a sedan owner driving a car costing the same, with similar fuel efficiency, and same size pay less.
100% agreed Tanveer.

The blame is that big SUV's like Audi and BMW have higher consumption and take up more space. How is that true. For 50L you get an Audi A6 or an Audi Q5. The Q5 is a compact SUV which is nowhere near as long as the bulky A6.

Both cars feature the same engine with similar economy. How is that the A6 is not charged extra but the Q5 which is supposed to be easier to drive in city because of compact dimensions is now classifed as a SUV and imposed extra tax. Same applies for X3 vs 3 series, X5 vs 5 and A4 vs Q3.

I think the target was Scorpio, Xylo, XUV, Safari, Innova, Fortuner, Endeavour which are not only huge and heavy in size but also in engine capacity yet they don't cost as much as the Audi, BMW or mercs but since they couldn't single out those SUV's in particular they came up with a blanket criteria. As a result the target SUV's fall into the category and they get a few more victims as well.
Vid6639 is offline  
Old 1st March 2013, 15:51   #122
Senior - BHPian
 
fiat_tarun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pune / Mysore
Posts: 1,113
Thanked: 582 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Kizashi ground clearance is 145 mm, so it escapes.
I'm not sure if any Kizashi's are left, but although it escapes the smaller additional 3% duty, it is a CBU and will be impacted by the 15% additional duty.

I'm sure Maruti will not even think of bringing in more Kizashi's !!
fiat_tarun is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 1st March 2013, 15:53   #123
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,308
Thanked: 641 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
I'm not sure if any Kizashi's are left, but although it escapes the smaller additional 3% duty, it is a CBU and will be impacted by the 15% additional duty.

I'm sure Maruti will not even think of bringing in more Kizashi's !!
oh yes, that has completely escaped me. Hope Maruti will develop good sense to bring in Kizashi as CKD.
lurker is offline  
Old 1st March 2013, 16:35   #124
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 946
Thanked: 295 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

The list of cars put up in TOI is not all that correct. We need to compile a list ourselves, I hope somebody is doing it right now. Weird are the rules of our country and make us feel even more weird by working on it, out of compulsion though.
zulfi hansi is offline  
Old 1st March 2013, 18:43   #125
mxx
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 683
Thanked: 102 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Not sure what the confusion is(referring to many previous post in this thread).
If TOI report is correct,
By definition (of GOI for purpose of taxation) SUV is
1. >4m length
2. >1500cc engine capacity
3. >170mm GC

A vehicle is only categorized as an SUV if it fulfills all the 3 criteria
Even if a sedan has all 3 of the above said criteria, it will be taxed as an SUV.
But if a SUV/UV(non-GOI classic definition) does not meet any one of the above criteria -like ertiga,duster- there is no change in the tax bracket.
Body style has nothing to do with it.

source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/18741666.cms

Last edited by mxx : 1st March 2013 at 18:47.
mxx is offline  
Old 1st March 2013, 23:50   #126
BHPian
 
Equus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 872
Thanked: 158 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Very unfair, no doubt! He just wants to ensure the govt also gets the share of the growing pie..

But PC is very smart - he will now make all vehicles > say 5 meters subject to additional excise of 3% :(

That apart, nothing for an industry that really needed some blood infusion.
Equus is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 06:58   #127
Senior - BHPian
 
ku69rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,293
Thanked: 1,226 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxx View Post
3. >170mm GC[/b]
A vehicle is only categorized as an SUV if it fulfills all the 3 criteria
Apart from the roads in front of 10, Janpath House am not sure how the cars can cope up with the poor quality roads. Did PC think that all cars in India can manage our roads with lesser than 170 mm GC.

This was by far one of the most dampest budget that could have been rolled out, when the market needed some free flow of money this was not what the doctor had prescribed.
ku69rd is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 07:10   #128
BHPian
 
wordsworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 63
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639
The Times of India wrongly mentioned Civic as falling into SUV category because of ground clearance. The Civic GC as stated by Honda is 170mm (from brochure and website). Only if it's greater than 170mm will it now be a SUV.

The Altis on the other hand is 175mm.
This is not correct. The notification issued for SUVs clearly states that the engines capacity has to exceed 1500cc and 4000mm in length. However, for a motor vehicle to qualify as an SUV, the ground clearance should be equal to 170 mm and above. Hence, Civic with ground clearance of 170 mm would qualify as an SUV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxx
Not sure what the confusion is(referring to many previous post in this thread).
If TOI report is correct,
By definition (of GOI for purpose of taxation) SUV is
1. >4m length
2. >1500cc engine capacity
3. >170mm GC
A vehicle is only categorized as an SUV if it fulfills all the 3 criteria
Even if a sedan has all 3 of the above said criteria, it will be taxed as an SUV.
But if a SUV/UV(non-GOI classic definition) does not meet any one of the above criteria -like ertiga,duster- there is no change in the tax bracket.
Body style has nothing to do with it.

source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/18741666.cms
As per the Notification 12/13 - CE, a motor vehicles would qualify as an SUV if it qualifies the following criteria:

- Engine capacity exceeding 1500 cc
- Length exceeding 4000 mm
- Ground clearance of 170 mm and above

Typical SUVs like Fortuner, Scorpio, Safari, XUV 5OO would qualify as a SUV in term of the central excise notification. Further, a sedan like Altis would also qualify as an SUV since it qualifies the above criterion and hence, taxable at the higher rate of 30%.

The criterion prescribed by the Government is clearly based on mere conjuncture and not clearly thought through. Picture this, the Duster in its diesel avatar would not qualify as an SUV since its engine capacity is 1461 cc. However, the Duster petrol would qualify as an SUV under the notification since its engine capacity is 1596 cc. Hence, additional excise duty of 3.09% on the petrol Duster.

Note from Team-bhp support: Posts merged. Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

Last edited by moralfibre : 3rd March 2013 at 08:23.
wordsworth is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 2nd March 2013, 08:06   #129
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 1,006
Thanked: 651 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Cars and SUVs are becoming common in most countries and not considered as a luxury. I seriously dont understant why in India, owning a vehicle is considered as a "crime". .

Think of the investments made by TATA, M&M etc., with the increase in price, their sales would be hit badly. Its impossible to manufacture SUVs less than 4m or the 1.2/1.5L engine limit, i.e. you technically cant call it an SUV. Also cars like Renault duster are picking up, when such a "bomb" was dropped.

Why are they trying to kill our industries and affect common man?

A person who buys CBUs is a filthy rich person and for such people taxes hikes dont matter, but here its the common man who suffers. Do we have transportation infrastructure in our country so that we dont have to use cars?

Are we only supposed to drive ambassadors and premier padminis or travel by Ox/horse carts or hand pulled carts?

I guess going forward, people are going to withdraw their investments from India, and resulting in the India in '70s/80s.
nitinbose is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 10:28   #130
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Delhi
Posts: 36
Thanked: 17 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

IMO it is lack of clarity or a lack of courage to say it or a combination of both.

What PC really wants is to discourage is sale of diesel non-goods carriers. Now incidentally, a good number of these are selling as SUVs. What would be difficult to implement is an excise hike across diesel vehicles and thus pick the easy candidate i.e. SUVs.

If the problem that he wants to solve is reduce diesel consumption, he needs to take-off the subsidy on the fuel straight away. These convoluted methods won't work and auto manufacturers would find means to circumvent.
Hiteshs77 is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 10:39   #131
BHPian
 
eyesice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: TVM / Chennai
Posts: 166
Thanked: 62 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

I feel that the rise in prices of SUVs maybe a ploy from the "non-SUV makers" ( Maruti, Hyundai, etc ) so that they do not lose market share to Mahindra, Tata, etc in the respective segments. With the rise of the so called Mini-SUV's, luxury hatchbacks and entry level sedans are taking a big hit which can be observed from the monthly sales reports.
eyesice is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 12:23   #132
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,449
Thanked: 6,438 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyesice View Post
I feel that the rise in prices of SUVs maybe a ploy from the "non-SUV makers" ( Maruti, Hyundai, etc ) so that they do not lose market share to Mahindra, Tata, etc in the respective segments. With the rise of the so called Mini-SUV's, luxury hatchbacks and entry level sedans are taking a big hit which can be observed from the monthly sales reports.
But there is NO impact of these taxes on the compact SUV segment as the engine capacity is less than 1.5L. But when you look at the segment where XUV is present, your point does raise a validity. That's exactly where even a Verna is competing, but I doubt there is any under-the-table manipulations that would have happened.

There was always this axe about to fall on the XUVs on grounds on lesser fuel efficiency and probably they wanted to do something to implement a tax on it.

Well, am kind of surprised and confused whether a person capable of buying a 10L car is really a "common man"!
swiftnfurious is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 14:11   #133
BHPian
 
Maky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 737
Thanked: 322 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
100% agreed Tanveer.

The blame is that big SUV's like Audi and BMW have higher consumption and take up more space. How is that true. For 50L you get an Audi A6 or an Audi Q5. The Q5 is a compact SUV which is nowhere near as long as the bulky A6.

Both cars feature the same engine with similar economy. How is that the A6 is not charged extra but the Q5 which is supposed to be easier to drive in city because of compact dimensions is now classifed as a SUV and imposed extra tax. Same applies for X3 vs 3 series, X5 vs 5 and A4 vs Q3.

I think the target was Scorpio, Xylo, XUV, Safari, Innova, Fortuner, Endeavour which are not only huge and heavy in size but also in engine capacity yet they don't cost as much as the Audi, BMW or mercs but since they couldn't single out those SUV's in particular they came up with a blanket criteria. As a result the target SUV's fall into the category and they get a few more victims as well.
You have a good point there but I must mention, You have made comparisions between SUV and Sedan made by German Marquee but How about comparing any SUV with most 'Aaam janta' sedans.
Does the argument still hold up?
Maky is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 15:57   #134
BHPian
 
ackyash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 81
Thanked: 9 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordsworth View Post
As per the Notification 12/13 - CE, a motor vehicles would qualify as an SUV if it qualifies the following criteria:

- Engine capacity exceeding 1500 cc
- Length exceeding 4000 mm
- Ground clearance of 170 mm and above

Typical SUVs like Fortuner, Scorpio, Safari, XUV 5OO would qualify as a SUV in term of the central excise notification. Further, a sedan like Altis would also qualify as an SUV since it qualifies the above criterion and hence, taxable at the higher rate of 30%.
Diesel Altis will not qualify as a SUV as its engine is 1364 cc, whereas the petrol version would qualify as a SUV.

Some of these people in the ministry are such iXXts. Really.
ackyash is offline  
Old 2nd March 2013, 17:20   #135
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 1,006
Thanked: 651 Times
Default Re: Budget 2013 & The Car Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyesice View Post
I feel that the rise in prices of SUVs maybe a ploy from the "non-SUV makers" ( Maruti, Hyundai, etc ) so that they do not lose market share to Mahindra, Tata, etc in the respective segments.
This could be also the case or HM might be trying their last chance to get into the India market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
But there is NO impact of these taxes on the compact SUV segment as the engine capacity is less than 1.5L. But when you look at the segment where XUV is present, your point does raise a validity. That's exactly where even a Verna is competing, but I doubt there is any under-the-table manipulations that would have happened.
Well, In my opinion an SUV is a vehicle which should be huge with around 2-3 liter engine, offering the road-presence, power and toughness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ackyash View Post
Some of these people in the ministry are such iXXts. Really.
This is not something new to everyone!
nitinbose is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
10 lakh budget. New car, used car or wait and increase budget? Tejas@perioimpl What Car? 59 2nd May 2014 12:03
2013 outlook for the "Auto Part Supplier" Industry GTO The Indian Car Scene 3 12th July 2013 07:42
Budget'08 Impact for Auto Industry keyank The Indian Car Scene 6 13th February 2008 16:32


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:34.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks