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Old 23rd April 2014, 12:44   #16
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

Out of sheer curiosity and an itch to know more and more about the K9 and 1.3 MJD engines and their applications I came across this link on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multijet_engine

It says
Quote:
A small 1.3 L (1,248 cc) version (called the SDE, Small Diesel Engine) introduced in February 2003 is produced in Bielsko-Biała, Poland,and in Ranjangaon, Pune, India, by Fiat India Automobiles.
It is also called Duratorq TDCi (Ford), Multijet (Fiat), Multijet 2 (Fiat), Quadrajet (Tata), SDE (GM)
Now, having read this on Wikipedia that that 1.3 MJD is also called Duratorq TDCi by Ford I went to the official review of Ford Figo on team BHP to clear the confusion. Here is the link to the review by GTO

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...-pictures.html

Here, GTO mentioned
Quote:
A key advantage of the 1.4 diesel is that, it does NOT have the turbo-lag of the Fiat 1.3 MJD (aka our national engine) used in several other hatchbacks. Actually, the TDCi doesn’t seem to have turbolag at all.
I am totally confused now
Are the two engines different? Does Ford manufactures its own engines? Is the information on Wikipedia not updated or I have made a wrong perception.
Please enlighten me on this. Please
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Old 24th April 2014, 12:34   #17
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

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Originally Posted by jeepster_chd View Post
Please enlighten me on this. Please
The particular engine being referenced here is that of the Ford KA which used the 1.3 L Multijet engine rebadged as the Duratorq TDCi. The Ford Figo/Fiesta uses the Ford's1.4L TDCi engine which is technically speaking an outdated version compared to the Multijet even though both of them are using the Common Rail system.

You can find more info about the 1.4 and 1.3 here.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...-superior.html

Last edited by Roomy : 24th April 2014 at 12:41.
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Old 25th April 2014, 15:07   #18
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

Another point that I would add to the Renault K9K is that it is the smallest diesel engine mated to a Dual Clutch Automatic Gearbox in the world.
The cars with this combination are the Renault Megan sedan and Hatch.

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Old 26th April 2014, 16:04   #19
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

When is Fiat introducing Multijet II in India? I only find articles like this one - http://www.carblogindia.com/fiat-mul...engines-india/ which refer to a possible launch but no news on actual launch.

I am assuming the second iteration of MJD should cover up for the low end torque issue many refer to.

Last edited by pacman2881 : 26th April 2014 at 16:21.
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Old 26th April 2014, 17:13   #20
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

The only way to have both low end torque as well as a good mid and higher range is to have twin turbos.
A fixed geometry low inertia turbo gives good low end torque, but looses out beyond a particular speed, while a heavier variable geometry turbo is lethargic initially, and also gives higher back pressure, giving poor low end torque, reasonable mid range and excellent higher range. Renault uses the twin turbo in their newly developed 1.6 Engine.


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Old 26th April 2014, 17:25   #21
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacman2881 View Post
When is Fiat introducing Multijet II in India? I only find articles like this one - http://www.carblogindia.com/fiat-mul...engines-india/ which refer to a possible launch but no news on actual launch.
It is a tricky situation. MSIL and Tata are the big customers who help Fiat stay alive in India with the engine sales. I don't think Suzuki or Tata has the license to use MJD2 which means Fiat would need to keep separate assembly lines for customer engines and it own and would lead to higher costs. Since the sales of Punto and Linea are still minimal, even the MJD2 would be sold only in very small numbers, unless they give away that technology to the competition.

Once they settle down on their current priority of establishing own dealer and service network across India and are ready to start fighting, they'll introduce it as new technology unique to them to attract buyers.
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Old 27th April 2014, 11:47   #22
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

How does the Honda 1.5 L iDtec do when compared to these engines? Honda claims to have the highest FE on its Amaze and City but I have heard people complain about NVH levels in the Amaze.
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Old 27th April 2014, 14:38   #23
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

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Originally Posted by sarav87 View Post
How does the Honda 1.5 L iDtec do when compared to these engines? Honda claims to have the highest FE on its Amaze and City but I have heard people complain about NVH levels in the Amaze.
K9K and MJD have been in the market for quite some time and they've already gone through evolutionary cycle multiple times to improve NVH levels.

On the other hand, Earthdreams is a new technology and Honda's first stab at diesel engines. So it can be expected to be falling short on the refinement of the other engines for the time being. However, based on Honda's track record, they'll certainly improve and it should get to the NVH levels of MJD or K9K in a year or two. Usually, NVH and refinements are the focus areas of the later part of the evolutionary cycle from V2 onwards. Power, efficiency and reliability are more important and would be focused in V1.

Even when Suzuki develops its own diesel mill, expect these same evolutionary phase - expecting a well refined and silent engine in V1 is asking too much.
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Old 27th May 2015, 00:07   #24
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

Reviving an old thread. After having used the 1.3 MJD collectively for over 1 lac kms I can emphatically state the Renault K9K beats it hands down in terms of refinement and power delivery. I've driven the Micra with absolutely nil turbo lag and currently the Lodgy 110 PS with a hint of turbo lag in second gear. The engine just comes into its own in the 5th and 6th cogs with remarkable refinement; no boom noise or roar that is characteristic of the 1.3 MJD. Idle refinement is definitely better on the MJD and sometimes at part throttle there's a faint clatter on the K9K. That said, the K9K takes performance to an all new level. I'm okay with the 1.3 MJD on the Swift/Dzire but definitely not on a vehicle bigger than them both. On paper, the 1.3 MJD is technically superior but out on the open road, it's the K9K diesel that shines. I haven't factored in reliability yet as the engine is still running in. Given the credentials, I'm sure it'll compete with the 2.5 D-4D.

If I can take the liberty to draw an analogy: I'm sure all of us have friends who were bright sparks in school, excelling in academics and then there were the last benchers who never really shined academically. But in real practical life, the last benchers outshine their academic counterparts with their street smartness and diligent living while the bookworms usually fail in street smartness. The 1.3 MJD is the academic excellence pupil at school while the K9K is the last bencher who's street smart and making it great in life!
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Old 27th May 2015, 06:59   #25
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan K9K 1.5L Diesel, and its sales competition

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Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
I haven't factored in reliability yet as the engine is still running in.

Given the credentials, I'm sure it'll compete with the 2.5 D-4D.
Oh don't worry about it; the same engine has proved to be a workhorse with it's simple 8v design, silently munching lakhs of km as proved by those airport taxis. In the Logan M&M said change belts at 60k intervals, a neighbor of mine kept driving till 1 lakh km and changed then. Renault Europe says 1,60,000 km or so but Indian conditions might reduce it to half. The turbocharger is cheaper too when compared to DDiS.

D-4D is still leagues ahead, mate. You say about the first bench student and last bench student, D-4D is like the restless school dropout guy who later became one the richest in the world.
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