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Old 18th March 2013, 22:16   #121
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Smile Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
After a long time, I drove a special hatchback. In today's diesel-dominated world, manufacturers don't bother with going over 1.2L petrol engines. By plonking the 1.5L motor into the Liva's bay, Toyota has created one of the most fun-to-drive petrol hatchbacks.
Torque & driveability are stupendously good, while outright acceleration will easily embarrass most C2 segment sedans. Because of the light weight & basic nature of the car, there's a certain mechanical purity that you get....reminded me of my 2003 Vtec in some ways. The handling is surprisingly neutral (even better than the Etios),
The Etios Petrol 1.5 is one of the most fun to drive cars out there. It's among my all time favorites along with Lancer & Baleno Petrol. Practicality forced me into the diesel club. But, will miss this Petrol engine always.

Maybe, will purchase a second hand Etios / 1.5l TRD Liva some day.
Or maybe, I'll go for the Toyota Dear Qin Petrol ( scheduled for release on 2016 ) -

Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)-toyotadearqinsedan3.jpg

After experiencing the qualities of a Toyota, it's difficult to switch back to any other brand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Does that mean that this variant does not have the flat bottomed steering from the top end Liva/Etios? That will be really sad on a car with sporty pretensions if they removed the flat bottomed wheel
That's disappointing. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I got the contact details of the technical head at Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery. So, I'll be following up with him regarding the feasibility of reducing NVH on the old model once the parts details are published by Toyota to the dealer. The most confidence inspiring fact is that the technical head himself owns a Liva Diesel old model. That should act as a motivation for him to find a solution.
Talked with the technical head today. These are the inputs I got.
  • He was of the opinion that Hydraulic mounts will reduce more of vibration ( while starting and the jerk caused by engine weight when taking a pothole ) than noise.
  • He can be sure about the feasibility of fitting hydraulic mounts, only after getting the full details regarding the technical changes on the new Etios. But, he was hopeful that it should be possible.

I got info from another person that there are 2 hydraulic mounts used on the Etios Diesel and that cost comes around Rs. 6,000/- ( The old rubber mounts used to cost around Rs. 2,000/- )

Part Numbers

1) 12305-0N071 ( right )
2) 12372-0N071 ( left )

Also Quoting a South African website mentioning about the hydraulic mounts used on Etios 1.5l Petrol -

Quote:
A hydraulic compound-type engine mount is used for the right engine mount to achieve both excellent ride comfort and low vibration when idling.
An engine mount with a dynamic damper is adopted for the left engine mount to reduce gear noise, thus achieving low noise and vibration during driving.

Last edited by amalji : 18th March 2013 at 22:20.
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Old 18th March 2013, 22:18   #122
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The handling is surprisingly neutral (even better than the Etios), the gearshift smooth and the clutch super-light to use. It blows the Polo 1.6 away, whether it's ease of driving within the city, or performance on the open road. Official Review will be up in the next week.
Finally ! Something fast and reasonably affordable with Toyota reliability. Whats with the poor kit Toyota ? Cant we have our cake and eat it too !
Looking forward to the review

Is it better to drive than the Ford Fiesta 1.6S ?

Last edited by Vid6639 : 18th March 2013 at 22:19. Reason: Only 2 smileys per post allowed :) Thanks!
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Old 18th March 2013, 22:38   #123
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

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Originally Posted by Redline6800 View Post
Finally ! Something fast and reasonably affordable with Toyota reliability. Whats with the poor kit Toyota ? Cant we have our cake and eat it too !
Looking forward to the review

Is it better to drive than the Ford Fiesta 1.6S ?
I doubt it. The fiesta 1.6S is in a different league when it comes to handling, especially with its steering feedback.
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Old 18th March 2013, 23:10   #124
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Post Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline6800 View Post
Finally ! Something fast and reasonably affordable with Toyota reliability. Whats with the poor kit Toyota ? Cant we have our cake and eat it too !
Looking forward to the review

Is it better to drive than the Ford Fiesta 1.6S ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
I doubt it. The fiesta 1.6S is in a different league when it comes to handling, especially with its steering feedback.
The Fiesta 1.6S is certainly a fantastic all round car. But, when it comes to power delivery. The Liva 1.5L Petrol rocks big time!

Liva Petrol PS would be > 96PS / ton whereas the Fiesta 1.6S would be 91 PS / ton
Torque for Liva 1.5 Petrol is 141 Nm / ton vs 131.5 Nm / ton of the Fiesta.
In addition, the Liva torque peaks faster at 3000 rpms vs 3400 rpms on the Fiesta making it feel a lot more peppier in majority of its practical rpm range.

PS: I've taken the kerb weight of the Liva same as that of Etios Petrol since the kerb weight of Liva 1.5 is not yet available. Expect 2.5% more power than what I've mentioned considering that the Liva would be lighter by 2.5% compared to Etios Petrol

Last edited by amalji : 18th March 2013 at 23:13.
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Old 18th March 2013, 23:23   #125
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Torque for Liva 1.5 Petrol is 141 Nm / ton vs 131.5 Nm / ton of the Fiesta.
In addition, the Liva torque peaks faster at 3000 rpms vs 3400 rpms on the Fiesta making it feel a lot more peppier in majority of its practical rpm range.
Where did you derive the torque figures 'per ton' from? From what I know, the Fiesta 1.6's torque is stated to be 146 nm @ 3400 rpms.

By the way, it is good to know that Toyota is giving us an option of a hot hatch, when all other manufacturers are swinging the other way. But what lets the Liva down is the light steering and the 'tinnish' build.
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Old 18th March 2013, 23:27   #126
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Smile Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Where did you derive the torque figures 'per ton' from? From what I know, the Fiesta 1.6's torque is stated to be 146 nm @ 3400 rpms.
146 Nm torque with 1110 kg kerb weight implies torque per ton of 146/1.11 = 131.53 Nm/ton

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
By the way, it is good to know that Toyota is giving us an option of a hot hatch, when all other manufacturers are swinging the other way. But what lets the Liva down is the light steering and the 'tinnish' build.
Japanese/Korean cars are meant to be light weight whereas American/European cars are heavier. Both has its own advantages and there is a market for both. One of the main reasons why one group loves the Japanese designs is because of their lightness.

Last edited by amalji : 18th March 2013 at 23:28.
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Old 18th March 2013, 23:31   #127
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The Fiesta 1.6 is a rockstar too. But it can't match the Liva on space, nor how light and effortless it is to drive in the city.

Now, if only Ford would launch the Figo 1.6, it would make the hatchback segment fun all over again.
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Old 18th March 2013, 23:53   #128
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Japanese/Korean cars are meant to be light weight whereas American/European cars are heavier. Both has its own advantages and there is a market for both. One of the main reasons why one group loves the Japanese designs is because of their lightness.
Right On! Less is More No ?
I'm sure an affordable, reliable and reasonable to maintain and efficient (at least 10kmpl in city) hot hatch would sell really well. Around 6.5 L on road would be ideal, yes please

Have a feeling only the Japs or Koreans can pull this off.

Last edited by Redline6800 : 19th March 2013 at 00:00. Reason: corrections
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Old 18th March 2013, 23:57   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline6800 View Post
Right On! Less is More No ?
I'm sure an affordable, reliable and reasonable to maintain and efficient (at least 10kmpl in city) hot hatch would sell really well. Around 6.5 L on road would be ideal, yes please

Have a feeling only the Japs or Koreans can pull this off.
As per the sales guy i spoke with it will be about 7.5 on road bangalore, but then cars are anyways much more expensive here :( thanks to the taxes
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:05   #130
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

I have suggested the new Etios/ Liva to my in-laws, who are planning to change from costly Petrol to cheaper & efficient Diesel car..

I have seen few TRD Livas, & must say that those are looker as compared to staid looking top-variant (without kit), & with the 1.5L Liva that GTO has tested & commented upon, must say time warm hatches has arrived.

Last edited by CARDEEP : 19th March 2013 at 12:07.
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Old 19th March 2013, 22:55   #131
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The handling is surprisingly neutral (even better than the Etios), the gearshift smooth and the clutch super-light to use. It blows the Polo 1.6 away, whether it's ease of driving within the city, or performance on the open road.
How good is the handling? Is it better than the Polo & Brio?

Of course I dont expect it to be better than Swift, Punto or Figo.
Punto 1.4 is also a good car to drive. If only it had the 1.4 Turbocharged engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Nope. From the back of my head, these were the missing essentials:
Rear wash / wipe
Foglamps (on a car with body kit )
Electric mirrors
Steering-mounted audio controls
I wont mind missing any of these if it is priced reasonably. But the interior is a let down. Specially the console.

Last edited by oxyzen : 19th March 2013 at 22:56.
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Old 20th March 2013, 00:13   #132
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
...I have seen few TRD Livas, & must say that those are looker as compared to staid looking top-variant (without kit),...
+1. The TRDs are much better looking externally and have a beautiful upholstery too! I really liked the TRD variant in the showroom compared to normal variants. Guess the only bit I didn't like was either the rear spoiler or the side skirts (can't recollect).
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Old 20th March 2013, 08:13   #133
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post

I have seen few TRD Livas, & must say that those are looker as compared to staid looking top-variant (without kit), & with the 1.5L Liva that GTO has tested & commented upon, must say time warm hatches has arrived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
+1. The TRDs are much better looking externally and have a beautiful upholstery too! I really liked the TRD variant in the showroom compared to normal variants.
Any Liva can be converted into a TRD with certain accessories, including the decals, which are sold separately by Toyota. The only actual difference is that normally Liva has 14 inch wheels, while the TRDs come with 15 inch alloys. Even that is not a big deal.

People who are getting lured by the look of the TRD, just contemplate. Getting a normal Liva and converting it into a Sportivo TRD costs less.
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Old 20th March 2013, 08:21   #134
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

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Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
Any Liva can be converted into a TRD with certain accessories, including the decals, which are sold separately by Toyota. The only actual difference is that normally Liva has 14 inch wheels, while the TRDs come with 15 inch alloys. Even that is not a big deal.

People who are getting lured by the look of the TRD, just contemplate. Getting a normal Liva and converting it into a Sportivo TRD costs less.
That may hold true for the Diesel TRD but the petrol one comes with a different engine. You cant actually get that aftermarket!
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Old 20th March 2013, 09:18   #135
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Default Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
How good is the handling?

Of course I dont expect it to be better than Swift, Punto or Figo.
Punto 1.4 is also a good car to drive. If only it had the 1.4 Turbocharged engine.

I wont mind missing any of these if it is priced reasonably. But the interior is a let down. Specially the console.
Well, surprisingly, I find the handling of Liva much better than Swift or Figo. My personal opinion though. I haven't driven the Punto extensively. The beauty of the Liva is it's second and third gears. You can drive the car like an automatic, without even touching the clutch.

The new Liva interior has changed. Looks more up-market. The central console look has changed too, though it still remains at the centre. My experience says that a centrally mounted console is better than a steering mounted console, once you are used to it. Looks unconventional, true, but you can keep a watch on the speedo and other signals without shifting your eyes from the road.

Btw, Spark too has centrally mounted interment cluster. I have never seen anyone complaining about that. Only Etios and Liva come for a flak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaibir View Post
That may hold true for the Diesel TRD but the petrol one comes with a different engine. You cant actually get that aftermarket!
My bad. With diesel running in my veins now, I forgot about the petrol-heads.
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