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Old 13th March 2013, 13:40   #16
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Default Re: 2015 -Host of safety and Emission regulations to come

All this is great but as somebody pointed out, the rest of the public infrastructure will still be stone age undoing whatever good these policies are meant to do. One look at the way the public buses and transport is run including commercial goods carrying vehicles one wonders how come we are still alive. Then there are self centered industrialists and short sighted government departments who will allow anything to go on such as this.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/18872974.cms

In Kolkata (assuming it is still considered a metro), the incorrigible Birlas still manage to arm-twist the government to let them sell their BSIII Ambys to the taxi owners who are compelled to replace their 15 year old ones. The Birlas will probably wait till Judgement Day to come up with a BSIV compliant 1.5L engine by which time obviously we won't need that engine unless we need taxis in Hell. Here is another pearl from whoever the joker currently heading Hindustan Motors at this point of time

Quote:
Uttam Bose, MD and CEO, Hindustan Motors, claimed they would launch the BS-IV-compliant diesel Ambassador in May. The three-month leeway by the government will end on May 31. However, Bose insisted: "Please don't relate this extension order with our company. The issues are not linked."
They have been promising this for the last 2/3 years I think but I guess this particular BSIV engine will be the gold standard of all BSIV engines given that it is taking so much time to be built. I am sure even this deadline will pass by like the idle wind. Policy be damned, in Kolkata they don't even care about the court's judgement even with respect to the environment. I guess just the mention of 2015 and BSV in the Hindustan Motors factory would cause some heart attacks in senior management.

Last edited by samarjitdhar : 13th March 2013 at 13:51.
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Old 13th March 2013, 15:31   #17
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Default Re: 2015 -Host of safety and Emission regulations to come

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Originally Posted by samarjitdhar View Post

In Kolkata (assuming it is still considered a metro), the incorrigible Birlas still manage to arm-twist the government to let them sell their BSIII Ambys to the taxi owners who are compelled to replace their 15 year old ones. ......Here is another pearl from whoever the joker currently heading Hindustan Motors at this point of time

I guess just the mention of 2015 and BSV in the Hindustan Motors factory would cause some heart attacks in senior management.
I agee that the Dinosaurs should be laid to rest. One simple question - How do they manage to sell Ambys across the country? Many other vehicles are today being (officially) sold and registered only in BS-III cities, since they do not meet BS-IV. Are there some underhand deals involved in the case of HM?
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Old 13th March 2013, 15:34   #18
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

Would like to see:

1) Compulsory front airbags.
2) Compulsory seatbelts for all adults in the car. (Front and rear seated)
3) No childern allowed in front row till age of 6 years.
4) Childern below 5 to have to sit in a Car Seat.
5) Bluetooth based infotainment systems compulsory.
6) Two wheelers to require both riders to wear helmets (enforcing of this rule that already exists.)
7) Pedestrians to be fined for jaywalking / crossing the road at the wrong place when there is a zebra crossing or overhead crossing within 400 mtrs.
8) Fine Trucks and Autoricks and Taxis with more than 1 light not working. (The rules exist today as well but who implements.)

Feel these are more important that what is listed out from the the safety point of view. (Not the environmental bit)

BAN NEW THREE WHEELERS - Is the nano not safer and cheaper than an autorickshaw? Will Bajaj allow this.

Last edited by ACM : 13th March 2013 at 15:35.
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Old 13th March 2013, 16:11   #19
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Default Re: 2015 -Host of safety and Emission regulations to come

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I agee that the Dinosaurs should be laid to rest. One simple question - How do they manage to sell Ambys across the country? Many other vehicles are today being (officially) sold and registered only in BS-III cities, since they do not meet BS-IV. Are there some underhand deals involved in the case of HM?
HM has two variants of their diesel engine, the 1.5L and the 1.8L. The latter is the only BSIV compliant one so naturally it costs more. Consequently the taxi owners out here don't buy that and want to buy the lower priced 1.5L BSIII one. They appeal to the state government along with the Birlas to exempt them from the CMVR guidelines on BSIV. The compliant government (probably under the influence of bribes) bring out a notification to specially allow registration of this BSIII junk as taxis through deadline extensions in contravention of the guidelines. I guess this has been happening for 2 years now. I actually have a lot of doubt these are even BSIII compliant given the amount of smoke these belch the moment they hit the roads. There is a high court order here which has banned plying of public transport older than 15 years hence this ensures a steady sale of these clunkers every month and let the Birlas hold on to the prime real estate where the factory is for free. I seriously hope the high court can ban Ambys older than 15 minutes from plying on the roads.
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Old 13th March 2013, 19:51   #20
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

I wish the Govt. takes initiative for something like NCAP or US highway safety authority . It only will enable better safety standards for Indian automotive industry . We can see how many of our cars pass this stringent safety standards set by whichever authority which get constituted by the Govt . It is very high time to bring this manufacturers under the law to ensure the safety of the passengers .
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Old 13th March 2013, 20:09   #21
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Would like to see:

1) Compulsory front airbags.
2) Compulsory seatbelts for all adults in the car. (Front and rear seated)
3) No childern allowed in front row till age of 6 years.
4) Childern below 5 to have to sit in a Car Seat.
5) Bluetooth based infotainment systems compulsory.
6) Two wheelers to require both riders to wear helmets (enforcing of this rule that already exists.)
7) Pedestrians to be fined for jaywalking / crossing the road at the wrong place when there is a zebra crossing or overhead crossing within 400 mtrs.
8) Fine Trucks and Autoricks and Taxis with more than 1 light not working. (The rules exist today as well but who implements.)
ACM, your suggestion number 3) & 4) are as you must be knowing, so strictly and religiously followed in the US.
A vehicle having a baby in the front seat or without a car seat is fined really really heavily. Till we do not have stricter norms and massive fines we can't expect Indians to follow such rules.
It will just be a new way for our cops to earn that extra "Hari Patti" and nothing else.

-Bhargav
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Old 13th March 2013, 20:12   #22
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

Will be interesting to see how stringently the safety norms will be implemented / or how diluted will be the "Indian" version of safety norms will be, when compared to international standards, as far as full frontal, offset frontal, rollover, rear crash, side impact, child seats etc are concerned.

Implementing safety norms are the most bitter pill for any car manufacturer. Crash norms have to be built into at the Body-In-White (BIW) stage and is a major investment on part of any OEM.
If our Government is gung-ho about safety and wants to harmonise Indian Crash Norms with European one's , expect to see a seismic shift in the automotive industry.
In fact many OEM's may be forced to shut shop, if they do not invest in technology that is, because some of their main products may not be meeting legislation (say for example: Hindustan Motors venerable Amby).

Am sure if this law kicks in, (I do not know when), but say from 2015 Jan onwards, it will not apply with retrospective effect.
Meaning any vehicle that can be "productionised" even by 31December 2014,11:59:59pm, can be sold "legally" for their entire product life cycle based on Ye Old Norms or Ye No Norms!
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Old 13th March 2013, 20:28   #23
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Would like to see:


BAN NEW THREE WHEELERS - Is the nano not safer and cheaper than an autorickshaw? Will Bajaj allow this.

Would love to see this happening.
This three wheel vehicle is dangerous on its own as well as for others. Putting in a fourth wheel will decrease its 'agility' and that will help a lot.
The auto walahs will no longer be able to make a quick 'cut' which not only will cause toppling, but also is a major reason for un predictable vehicular movement on road.

No comments on the full iron bodied three wheel pick ups, so much for pedestrian safety :(
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Old 14th March 2013, 09:22   #24
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

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Originally Posted by Octane_Power View Post
ACM, your suggestion number 3) & 4) are as you must be knowing, so strictly and religiously followed in the US.
A vehicle having a baby in the front seat or without a car seat is fined really really heavily. Till we do not have stricter norms and massive fines we can't expect Indians to follow such rules.
It will just be a new way for our cops to earn that extra "Hari Patti" and nothing else.

-Bhargav
Yep, I follow the Ritual of having my kido seat on a child seat mounted in the middle row even out here in India. Don't keep him in the front seat unless we are in what we call the "gali close to house" It is a major cause for irritation for him but safety first.

But having such a rule and having every one follow it would have helped even my cause more as there would be other example to point to and we wouldn't go soft even he gave one of his "I don't feel well" looks. My wife sits in the rear with him just to give him company at times while I drive sitting alone up front. Personal Driver anyone?
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Old 14th March 2013, 09:44   #25
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

The Govt. should also introduce legislation regarding vehicle recall policy. Currently vehicle recalls are performed voluntarily by automakers, and these may vary from relatively minor niggles such as in the XUV500 recall recently to the A-Star recall of a few years ago that required the change of a faulty fuel line.

The NHTSA in the U.S.A. is a strict body that oversees vehicle recalls, and based on consumer complaints begins investigating whether a particular part or mechanism of the vehicle is faulty and initiates a recall. They may even fine a manufacturer a whopping 16.4 million dollars over and above the bad press that the manufacturer receives if the manufacturer does not notify the NHTSA of this problem before they begin the investigation (a' la Toyota).

Not having a recall policy means that the safety of thousands of motorists and pedestrians can be decided on the whims of an automaker who may or may not decide to initiate a recall, fearing that the negative publicity of a recall may affect sales and hoping that nobody would find out about manufacturing defects.
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Old 14th March 2013, 11:45   #26
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yep, I follow the Ritual of having my kido seat on a child seat mounted in the middle row even out here in India. Don't keep him in the front seat unless we are in what we call the "gali close to house" It is a major cause for irritation for him but safety first.
And also the car seat facing the rear right?
It is so in the States. the car seat facing opposite the windshield so that in the event of an accident, broken glass bits or any other metal, plastic etc parts do not come to the baby, also the car seat properly fit to the seat and the baby strapped in it so even if the car turns turtle the baby will come out scratch free.
I just love the way, they protect their small ones over there.
People should have the same outlook here too .

-Bhargav
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Old 14th March 2013, 12:30   #27
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

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And also the car seat facing the rear right?
It is so in the States. the car seat facing opposite the windshield so that in the event of an accident, broken glass bits or any other metal, plastic etc parts do not come to the baby, also the car seat properly fit to the seat and the baby strapped in it so even if the car turns turtle the baby will come out scratch free.
I just love the way, they protect their small ones over there.
People should have the same outlook here too .

-Bhargav
Car Seat faces the rear only when the child is a baby (lying down position more or less) beyond x wt /age the seat has to face the front. There is a age and wt for every type of car seat.

Already for a 4 year old am in the third and last (wt wise) car seat - the latest one is called a booser seat and uses the cars existing seatbelts but guides them and raises the height of the base.
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Old 14th March 2013, 14:31   #28
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Default Re: 2015 - New Safety and Emission regulations coming up!

One thing more, insist on the full Euro V for BS-V fuels (esp Diesel) and do not dilute the Euro V spacs, as was done for BS-IV. We have a refinery exporting Euro V diesel, so I do not buy the argument that it cannot be done!
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Old 15th March 2013, 09:39   #29
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Default Re: 2015 -Host of safety and Emission regulations to come

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Originally Posted by samarjitdhar View Post
In Kolkata (assuming it is still considered a metro), the incorrigible Birlas still manage to arm-twist the government to let them sell their BSIII Ambys to the taxi owners who are compelled to replace their 15 year old ones. The Birlas will probably wait till Judgement Day to come up with a BSIV compliant 1.5L engine.

HM readies for featuring BS4 compliant diesel engine on Diesel Ambassadors and is likely to rollout from June this year and the company expects to sell 5000-5500 units in 2013-14. Apart from the BS4 diesel engine introduction, Hindustan Motors will also come up with a sub 4-metre Ambassador early next year.



Last edited by volkman10 : 15th March 2013 at 09:46.
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Old 15th March 2013, 10:47   #30
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Default Re: 2015 -Host of safety and Emission regulations to come

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HM readies for featuring BS4 compliant diesel engine on Diesel Ambassadors and is likely to rollout from June this year and the company expects to sell 5000-5500 units in 2013-14. Apart from the BS4 diesel engine introduction, Hindustan Motors will also come up with a sub 4-metre Ambassador early next year.


I guess this is a little OT now, though we have been hearing this from HM for the past 2 years, so the proof will be in the pudding. Also remember that the BSV standards kick in from 2015 replacing the BSIV standards. Given the generous deadlines HM has followed till now I won't be surprised if the engine actually comes out towards the end of this year if at all it happens. That would mean they can only sell for a year when in 2015 they must produce the BSV engine which I guess would be impossible given their track record. Apart from that, the build quality of Ambys is pathetic and parts start failing the moment rubber hits the road quiet literally. Even if it theoretically gets a BSIV engine it would be still a clunker and given the shoddy build quality coupled with absolute neglect and poor maintenance by the taxi segment these cars will continue to pollute as much as they do now.

EDIT: Also the sub 4m version of the Amby was in the news about a year ago and pictures were even posted on TBHP on one of the Amby threads I think. It looked the final design touch to get the length below 4m was effected by having a charging rhino ramming into the current version's butt. Ugliness would have a new definition if that version hit the roads here.

Last edited by samarjitdhar : 15th March 2013 at 10:51. Reason: Added info on new version
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