Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th December 2013, 14:33   #121
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,428 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

I mean, are we even seriously thinking M&M did a real time testing?! That too from the supposedly informed bhp'ians? It sounds way too silly !! As Rehaan mentioned, there are minimal damages to the side panels and to me, it did NOT even look like had a serious roll over (And yes, lets NOT speculate on the tank-like built that M&M may have incorporated into this vehicle or even innovative anti-dent panels - a segment first on this car). It might have slipped off the road and went and landed where it is, might have landed on one of the sides (passenger). In case of a serious accident, that would have definitely shown on the exteriors.

And the ever enthusiastic magazines would have added their measure of masala for getting that additional set of curious eyes to their pages, when they caught the incident.

Just think of it - This one report has gained more -ve reputation for the vehicle even before launch. Is this M&M would want (especially by attempting a real time stunt)? And there is NO backup vehicle / safety personnel or even an ambulance? A lot of people are now suspecting the vehicle dynamics and they in all probability will try and stay away from the vehicle.

My hunch is that it was a driver error coupled with the high GC that might have landed the car in the accident. I am sure if M&M wanted to have such a test, that would have been in a completely covered / remote locations where no one would get to know what happened or even a single shot of the result would have gone public.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 12th December 2013 at 14:42.
swiftnfurious is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 12th December 2013, 14:36   #122
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,703
Thanked: 7,599 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
....More-so, Aditya and I were just looking at the pictures, and we both agree that it doesn't even look the the vehicle rolled over (perfectly intact ORVMs, no damage to the A-pillars or roof, no scratches on the doors). Maybe the roll-over part was just an assumption?
Exactly!! Even I wondered after seeing those pics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
M&M should be SUED if they chose to do a Roll-Over test on Public Roads.
If this was not a test, then the reverse implication is that it still suffers from stability problems.
Too early to say Roy. We dont know under what circumstances the accident happened (speed, road-surface, condition of tyres, other vehicles on the road, visibility, driver skills, service/maintenance history of the particular S101).

In today's world, 99% accidents happen because of driver error and not vehicle. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the vehicle's stability yet.
SDP is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 12th December 2013, 14:41   #123
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 844
Thanked: 587 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

In my opinion, it is just another accident. The blogger added some part from his imagination to fill the page. Many of us aware that Mahindra has set up a full fledged research and development facility in Chennai. Then why should they test such a vehicle outside for roll over?

Last edited by MaxTorque : 12th December 2013 at 14:43.
MaxTorque is offline  
Old 12th December 2013, 14:43   #124
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,467
Thanked: 19,372 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

It's pretty obvious it was not a planned test. Noone wants the public looking inside the car in this state and obviously no manufacturer is dumb enough to this.

My educated guess is that this happened at the exit of a turn. Driver went in too fast not knowing how sharp the turn was and the S101 simply understeered off the road into the barrier.

That's how majority of cars are designed i.e. to understeer at the limit. Fact that both got out safely and damage is not major means looks good so far.

I hope noone is even thinking of doubting this car/SUV just because of this. If they are then all they need to do is take a drive once in the Quanto. Rest assured that has more chance of rollover than this.

Remember the S101 is supposed to be a monocoque construction and will be far safer than a Quanto.
Vid6639 is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 12th December 2013, 15:36   #125
Senior - BHPian
 
sourabhzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: GURGAON
Posts: 1,541
Thanked: 1,277 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

I am sure that wasn't a "planned" roll-over test. However, this will help them analysing the damages in a real life accident conditions.

I hope the occupants of the car are safe.

A few questions for the experts:
1. Do the manufaturers test multiple vehicles or they test single vehicle for multiple conditions?
2. Can this accident delay the launch due to delayed test result?.

Thanks
sourabhzen is offline  
Old 12th December 2013, 16:44   #126
Senior - BHPian
 
schakravarthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: KA 09 / KA 02
Posts: 1,361
Thanked: 3,967 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsquared View Post
The report says that S101 was tested for rollover safety! If this is true it is commendable! Also there is minimum damage to the passenger shell as per the pics. Looks like one safe vehicle.
I beg to disagree. The "minimum damage" you refer to is, more often than not, not a good trait. It implies that most of the energy is transferred into the cabin and not absorbed by the structure.
Ps- its not a comment about the safety of the vehicle in question though, just a general observation.
schakravarthy is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 12th December 2013, 17:22   #127
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,467
Thanked: 19,372 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post
I beg to disagree. The "minimum damage" you refer to is, more often than not, not a good trait. It implies that most of the energy is transferred into the cabin and not absorbed by the structure.
This is true unless it is a roll over. Incase of roll over you don't want the A, B, C pillars to collapse causing the roof to collapse. There should be minimal structural damage incase of roll over.

Ofcourse neither is this a rollover nor is it a proper accident. So doesn't matter and we can't say anything about the S101 safety.
Vid6639 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 12th December 2013, 18:04   #128
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,428 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
...A few questions for the experts:
1. Do the manufaturers test multiple vehicles or they test single vehicle for multiple conditions?
2. Can this accident delay the launch due to delayed test result?...
1. They usually have multiple mules spanning multiple variants (or even same variants). You can make out that looking at the (temp) registration numbers / alloy wheels etc. And they will put all these cars thru multiple conditions too. It would make more sense to get feedback on a car which has gone thru different conditions.

2. Need NOT be. We really do NOT know the reason why this happened in the first place. If it was purely a driver error, then there is NO reason why it would be delayed further.

And again as mentioned, this is a monocoque and hence better dynamics are assured. But the car also needs to be driven keeping in mind the GC. If it's really high (~200mm), then one ought to drive it the way it should be; no two ways about it. You cannot sweep thru the corners in such vehicles and get away with it always unlike good dynamically accomplished sedans / hatches. Even hatches & sedans can roll over in such cases, not ruling out those possibilities, but they are far safer than SUVs.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 12th December 2013 at 18:16.
swiftnfurious is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 16th December 2013, 10:10   #129
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney/Cochin
Posts: 289
Thanked: 154 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

I have seen a few vehicles being test-driven in camouflage, and in most of the cases the cars/bikes were being driven at more than average speeds, and the drivers usually don't seem to be very familiar with the roads and curves at the places where they are testing the vehicles. Last time when I saw the Mahindra Mojo being tested near Hosur the plates were MH, and they really looked like having travelled all the way from Mumbai, with all the luggages and provision for a long trip. And in no way they could be very familiar with roads, and sharp curves come unexpected in the Ghats. This accident too happened at just another 'surprise' corner for the driver.

Guys at M&M are not foolish enough to loose reputation over a rollover test which hasn't even given them video footage to analyse. If they wanted to show off rollover safety of S101, they could've published it in YouTube, and a more educated and interested audience would've welcomed it, than rolling a test mule down a slope, when none is watching.

If they rolled it over on a straight road, we can at least say they wanted to demonstrate safety, and the vehicle rolled over because the driver tried to make the car roll over. Usually they do it with the help of ramps, I guess. Falling over at a corner is not 'demonstration' of anything.

And we can't conclude there are handling issues with the SUV just because it happened to be in an accident. Even Ferraris and Porsches crash into roadside poles and all sort of things.
Joe M is offline  
Old 16th December 2013, 10:58   #130
Senior - BHPian
 
schakravarthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: KA 09 / KA 02
Posts: 1,361
Thanked: 3,967 Times
Default

Aren't there rules and regulations that govern testing on public roads? I mean, I can't believe that the RTO would let loose untested vehicles that may pose serious threats! The vehicles may be safe and pre-tested, but on-road testing often involves pushing the vehicle to its limits in order to test its reliability, endurance, handling etc. Cases such as these are indicators, sooner or later they are bound end up as misdirected missiles!
schakravarthy is online now  
Old 16th December 2013, 12:01   #131
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,428 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post
...I mean, I can't believe that the RTO would let loose untested vehicles that may pose serious threats! The vehicles may be safe and pre-tested, but on-road testing often involves pushing the vehicle to its limits in order to test its reliability, endurance, handling etc. Cases such as these are indicators, sooner or later they are bound end up as misdirected missiles!
Why are we even getting into these kind of discussions? Do we have any proof that the vehicle was pushed to the limits, resulting in a roll over? From the minimal damage I could see, this could have been a low speed accident, drifting from the road due to some reasons and once it moved to uneven / inclined space, ended up rolling over.
swiftnfurious is offline  
Old 16th December 2013, 12:25   #132
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,576
Thanked: 1,723 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Why are we even getting into these kind of discussions? Do we have any proof that the vehicle was pushed to the limits, resulting in a roll over? From the minimal damage I could see, this could have been a low speed accident, drifting from the road due to some reasons and once it moved to uneven / inclined space, ended up rolling over.
The way I see things, this was a regular accident and not part of any testing. However, M&M folks inside the vehicle might have said "they were testing the car" to the crowd that gathered around the accident site as the reason for the accident. Any other reason would either have to blame the driver (who as still within reach of the crowd) or the car (which will ensure a lot of bad publicity for M&M)
zenren is offline  
Old 16th December 2013, 12:38   #133
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,428 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
...However, M&M folks inside the vehicle might have said "they were testing the car" to the crowd that gathered around the accident site as the reason for the accident...
1. I would think in another way. Not always the car will have officials. Most of the times, it's ONLY the driver in the car.

2. Here, even if the driver / officials did NOT say anything, it is natural for people to think this could have been a "test" since the car is camouflaged.

3. All these diversion happened from the single phrase that was used in the report who caught the pics. The statement was NOT a direct statement and as interpreted by couple of folks was more in a funny way (tongue in cheek) which meant "was it a roll over test?" Unfortunately the site did NOT have smileys as we are blessed with or a bunch of our members took it way too seriously and could NOT find the humor in the statement.

Edit:: It's even more unfortunate that they did NOT manage a single interior pics when they had the car at their disposal completely unlocked. (I seriously hope people notice the smiley after the statement and do NOT start another debate)

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 16th December 2013 at 12:43.
swiftnfurious is offline  
Old 16th December 2013, 12:52   #134
Senior - BHPian
 
schakravarthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: KA 09 / KA 02
Posts: 1,361
Thanked: 3,967 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post

Why are we even getting into these kind of discussions? Do we have any proof that the vehicle was pushed to the limits, resulting in a roll over? From the minimal damage I could see, this could have been a low speed accident, drifting from the road due to some reasons and once it moved to uneven / inclined space, ended up rolling over.
I should have been clearer, sorry my bad. The questions I posed were in a general sense, not particular to this incident. It is obvious testing is allowed on public roads (again, maybe/may not be in this case, but that is irrelevant). With only that in mind, could you please answer my questions?
schakravarthy is online now  
Old 16th December 2013, 13:56   #135
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,428 Times
Default Re: Scoop Pic! Mahindra's S101 Mini-SUV spotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post
I should have been clearer, sorry my bad. The questions I posed were in a general sense, not particular to this incident. It is obvious testing is allowed on public roads (again, maybe/may not be in this case, but that is irrelevant). With only that in mind, could you please answer my questions?
With respect to general testing vehicles, I do NOT think any different rules apply; it has to be the same as regular production vehicles - save for the registration number.

Some of the test mules might be pushed to the limits for real life testing too or due to over enthusiastic drivers, but most of these will be done in the test tracks I believe. But then, we have such high speed driving done on production vehicles on the road too.

I have come across very few accidents involving test mules, so I would rather believe that these guys generally do NOT go beyond limits.
swiftnfurious is offline   (1) Thanks
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SCOOP PIC : Hyundai Starex MPV/H-1 Minivan spotted testing! rocky080 The Indian Car Scene 21 13th March 2017 15:35
India's largest selling SUV: Mahindra Bolero (Pic-Pg 36. Launch - Pg 41) Mpower The Indian Car Scene 789 29th June 2016 16:40
Scoop Pic! *Improved* Chevrolet Tavera spotted chennai-indian The Indian Car Scene 23 1st February 2012 23:19
SCOOP PIC - Euro spec Ford Fiesta spotted testing! EDIT: New pics on pg 15 AbdulRahmanM The Indian Car Scene 334 15th February 2011 01:47


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:09.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks