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Old 3rd April 2013, 13:00   #16
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post

It depends, but if i was not having Civic i wouldnt buy it now. I am aware that the car would be supported for next 10 years but my experience has been as the years go by it takes more time to source parts.
Is it very tough to source the parts for Civic. I myself is in search of a pre worshipped civic (she stole my heart at first sight itself and still remains my love) and was following the civic maintenance page. Would like to know your experience with sourcing parts, if you have the link in the maintenance page, please could you share the same?
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Old 3rd April 2013, 19:11   #17
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
It depends, but if i was not having Civic i wouldnt buy it now. I am aware that the car would be supported for next 10 years but my experience has been as the years go by it takes more time to source parts.
Support for both cars shouldn't be a problem though.

I've had my 1.5 Exi City since 2000 and have never faced any problems with spare parts and being a Honda, you don't need them too often

Will miss the Jazz :( Was more Amazed by the Jazz than the Amaze
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Old 3rd April 2013, 20:39   #18
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

So if I need to change some major things, such as bumpers, I should get them changed now? Might not get them after a few months?
I think Honda has good support, even for older models..
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Old 4th April 2013, 02:13   #19
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

Its a sad day, a very sad day for me. I had the 2007 Civic which stuck by my side till last year when I swapped it for a Cruze. I still cannot help but remember the time it was first launched in India. It was revolutionary in terms of design. No one in India knew that you could have a properly pretty and sporty looking car this side of a BMW/Audi and the likes. Till date I see a civic on the road I am just floored by its looks. First car in India that offered paddle-shifts on the automatics (in the sort of main-stream cars).

It wasn't really practical. Low-slung, really little ground clearance, lack of low-end grunt, making it quite annoying in the city, the Automatic, atleast the one I had never managed anything above an 8 kmpl in the city. And it was actually a softly sprung car as opposed to the menacing looks of a sports car.

But all that aside, The Hydraulic Power Steering unit - that feel, the way it was so effortlessly chuckable around the corners and one of the most liveliest petrol engines with its revv-happiness I have driven. Boy, I loved that car. I had my share of romance with it when our country was a bit kinder to petrol heads, and now its time to say a goodbye.

I am equally sad about the Jazz too. I always desired to own one as a sort of family city runabout car. It never happened and now by the looks of things it never will. :(

Regards,
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Old 4th April 2013, 03:38   #20
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by n:CorE View Post
I always desired to own one as a sort of family city runabout car. It never happened and now by the looks of things it never will. :(
As per Hindustan Times, you can!
Read this article on the business page, Jazz is expected with a diesel engine April, 2014.
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Old 4th April 2013, 05:33   #21
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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The Civic is also a case to point where a sharp radical look ages faster than a more conservative look like that of the Corolla Altis which is still in business (though only just and thanks to a Diesel boost). But in general radical looks like that of the Civic, Beat etc stop exciting people after a period. Wonder if Ford Eco-Sport runs the same risk or is it an eternal snape - time will tell.
I agree with ACM that radical looks may age faster than a more conservative look. Civic was/ is a great car.
As for the Jazz I remember looking at it with covetous eyes when I wanted to replace my City in 2011. Loved the styling and the space it had to offer. Sadly, it was overpriced (at that point of time) and there was no AT option.
If only Honda had reacted faster and effected price cuts at least a year before they eventually did, I feel the story would have been different.
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Old 4th April 2013, 05:47   #22
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

The advent of very European looking premium priced Hyundai's i20 initially helped Jazz but pretty soon removed Jazz altogether. The diesel power plant of i20 and its all-round performance being its USP.
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Old 4th April 2013, 08:43   #23
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Is it only the lack of a diesel heart that killed the civic? Honda manages to sell decent numbers of the City with just a petrol option. Moving up a segment one would think that higher running costs should not worry the car owner.
Indian public is not against a petrol car but most turn around and walk away when they see a petrol car that gives low FE.

There is a big difference between a City and a Civic when it comes to fuel costs. City commands very respectable fuel efficiency numbers which are comparable to smaller cars, which makes the potential customers compromise, especially if they are upgrading from a petrol hatchback since the FE numbers are similar to their existing car. For Civic, the FE is nothing to write about, with very few cars managing above 10.
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Old 4th April 2013, 09:41   #24
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

Honda India CEO says Jazz and another UV will be launched sometime next year!!

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Within the next three years, we will come with five big launches. The next-generation Jazz and an all-new utility vehicle will debut next year
Source:

Honda Ready for Counter Attack
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Old 4th April 2013, 10:00   #25
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Indian public is not against a petrol car but most turn around and walk away when they see a petrol car that gives low FE.

There is a big difference between a City and a Civic when it comes to fuel costs. City commands very respectable fuel efficiency numbers which are comparable to smaller cars, which makes the potential customers compromise, especially if they are upgrading from a petrol hatchback since the FE numbers are similar to their existing car. For Civic, the FE is nothing to write about, with very few cars managing above 10.
This low FE thing is just in the mind if you ask me.

We have owned the foll petrol cars in the family in past (some currently owned) and this is what the FE was like with each car


Maruti WagonR
City : 11~12 kpl
Highway : 13 ~ 14 kpl

Hyundai Santro
City : 10 ~ 11
Highway : 13~ 14 kpl

Toyota Corolla (Petrol)
City : 9~ 10
Highway : 12~ 13 kpl

Palio Stile 1.6
City : 9~10 kpl
Highway : 11~ 12 kpl

Skoda Laura TSI
City : 9~ 10 kpl
Highway : 12~ 14 kpl

The way I see it, the difference in FE between a B segment petrol hatch and a D1 segement petrol sedan is at the most about 1 ~ 1.5 kpl in the city, and the gap is further reduced when its out on the highway.

If we consider that the car is owned for an average period of 50,000 kms, the additional expense in terms of fuel is just about a rupee per km or roughly about Rs. 50,000/- over the entire period of ownership . The point I am trying to make is that when one is buying a car that costs nearly 10 lacs more than a small hatch, why does it hurt him to pay only Rs. 50,000 more for fuel, that too spread across the entire period of ownership?

The thing is that when someone buys an entry level petrol hatch, he does so coz he feels it is not justified to pay the premium for a diesel hatch as it costs so much more. But when he moves up to a segment like the, C2 or D1 , he feels that for the money he is paying, the car SHOULD have a diesel engine. The 'Diesel car' for him is a desirable commodity.

The funny thing is that as you go further up to the D2 segment, the diesel engine is not that important. The Skoda Superb petrol sells more than the diesel variant. The Sonata and Accord don't even have diesel variants. Its almost as if in this segment the car buyer is more rational in his thinking and the refinement and lower capital cost of the petrol car is more appealing.

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 4th April 2013 at 10:02.
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Old 4th April 2013, 10:13   #26
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

Honda is doing what anyone should do, cut their losses before its too late. The FE of the Civic was not a deal breaker around the time of it's launch, the petrol price increases in the last few years really did it in, people loved the looks and futuristic interiors with Honda reliability to boot. The Civic's replacement was a bore and Honda realised that it would not be worthwhile to assemble it here. A Civic with a good diesel will still find buyers, however the Jetta and Laura(new Octavia) have taken the game forward, the new Civic is hardly in that league.

The Jazz will not be missed, too few of them around, the next version should launch when the market is ready to pay for premium products as opposed to cut price third world spec sedans.
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Old 4th April 2013, 11:56   #27
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat
The funny thing is that as you go further up to the D2 segment, the diesel engine is not that important. The Skoda Superb petrol sells more than the diesel variant. The Sonata and Accord don't even have diesel variants. Its almost as if in this segment the car buyer is more rational in his thinking and the refinement and lower capital cost of the petrol car is more appealing.
I don't think this part of your post is correct. The Superb-P does sell more than the diesel variant, but not only is that more of an exception rather than the norm and the reason is because the price-differential is too high - D costs 5lakhs or more than the P variant. So makes sense to buy the Petrol. And regarding Sonata and Accord, who are even buying these cars today ?
And if you go higher into Audi/Merc/BMW zones, when was the last time you saw a petrol variant of these cars on the road ? For someone paying 30L+ for a car, petrol being priced Rs20 more per litre is a trivial thing, but still diesel rules.

Coming to the topic of this thread, both the Jazz and the Civic are nice cars and it is sad that they are going away.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 4th April 2013 at 11:57.
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Old 4th April 2013, 15:56   #28
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Default Re: Honda removes Jazz and Civic from its website

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
This low FE thing is just in the mind if you ask me.

The way I see it, the difference in FE between a B segment petrol hatch and a D1 segement petrol sedan is at the most about 1 ~ 1.5 kpl in the city, and the gap is further reduced when its out on the highway.

If we consider that the car is owned for an average period of 50,000 kms, the additional expense in terms of fuel is just about a rupee per km or roughly about Rs. 50,000/- over the entire period of ownership . The point I am trying to make is that when one is buying a car that costs nearly 10 lacs more than a small hatch, why does it hurt him to pay only Rs. 50,000 more for fuel, that too spread across the entire period of ownership?
I was speaking specifically about City and Civic, not C2 and D1 segments in general.

FE for ANHC in city seems to be in 11-13 range based on what my friends get. For Civic, the corresponding numbers I've heard are 7-9. That is the difference we are looking at. Also, don't forget that a top end City is definitely an option within the budget of every Civic buyer. Even for a Honda lover, it is just one Honda over another. I don't think most buyers would mind getting 3-4 kmpl extra FE and 90% of Civic at 75% price, which tilts the table in favor of City.

Quote:
The thing is that when someone buys an entry level petrol hatch, he does so coz he feels it is not justified to pay the premium for a diesel hatch as it costs so much more. But when he moves up to a segment like the, C2 or D1 , he feels that for the money he is paying, the car SHOULD have a diesel engine. The 'Diesel car' for him is a desirable commodity.
Think of it from an affordability perspective. An entry level petrol hatch buyer, especially first time buyers would be stretching their budget a lot more than someone who upgrades to C2 or D1 segment. For a first time buyer, he calculates his potential monthly spend based on the ARAI FE and what he thinks might be the usage involved. Once he gets a car, the recurring cost will usually be much more than what he initially planned and he would realize the hard way that the FE numbers quoted by the sales rep is something he'll never see. Even before he is ready for an upgrade, he would have decided "I'll buy a diesel car next time!"

With a diesel car in the garage, you might not think twice to take the car to buy something from the store which is 2km away. With a petrol car, you might actually start looking at getting some exercise for your body by walking down to the store.

Last edited by zenren : 4th April 2013 at 15:57.
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Old 4th April 2013, 16:06   #29
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Civic failed in the recent years mainly because of lack of features for the price. It just was too bare basic and Honda upped the price by around 1.5-2 lakhs since its launch for various reasons. Even a car like i20 has more features than that in Civic.
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:36   #30
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Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
Civic failed in the recent years mainly because of lack of features for the price. It just was too bare basic and Honda upped the price by around 1.5-2 lakhs since its launch for various reasons. Even a car like i20 has more features than that in Civic.
I don't see how you can say that, would you care to further elaborate?

As I see it,

1. Hyundai is known for overloading their cars with features that's one of their main selling points.
2. When I bought civic a year ago it's features we're in line with most of its competitors in the segment and still is and it's cost though increased was still quite less than most of its competitors at 13.15L on road for the S variant.
Add to that a brilliant engine, which was economical too (Current FE has never gone below 11, which is pretty good in my books), Honda Warranty, Honda Assure, and Honda Road Side assistance, I never understood why it never sold well in the end.
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