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Old 5th November 2013, 09:04   #31
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
Guys, K series was designed and developed by Maruti for suzuki. Do not underestimate the engineering talent in India. While the budget may be sponsored by suzuki, India can be a choice of engineering at the hands of maruti. Please review how many IIT engineers are being hired by maruti. I'm driving one and I can feel the quality if low friction K series built in India. Whether maruti builds or suzuki its immaterial. It is for suzuki. Why do not people comment when a MS SX4 is callee maruti SX4. We just want to prefix maruti tag to make anything cheap. Lets have some respect for talent that has been locally hired. I'm no maruti fanboy - if u read my previous posts. Sorry for going OT.

And I expect them to engineer the diesel engine by following honda's footsteps. Low friction, low weight, Smart mounts)
Dude, i have been driving Maruti suzuki cars(Swift and now Ertiga) and have lots of maruti cars back home too. I know how good these are with respect to competition and that is why happily driving them

Just curious, What is the source of information for K series engines designed by Maruti ? I dont find it anywhere. All i know is Maruti is manufacturing these engines just like they are doing with MJD. but K series engines are suzuki global engines. Do share the links please.
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Old 5th November 2013, 09:05   #32
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
Did i hear it correctly ? Maruti is a nobody to develop in house diesel engine. I hope we are talking about its parent Suzuki(which also is not a big shot auto maker)
Maruti bought the technology from FIAT in a one-off deal - no trailing royalties, no support.

Therefore that had committed to in a way to not necessarily sourcing engines from FIAT. Given the volumes developing their own makes sense. I have a feeling that 90% of the Suzuki Diesel sales are in India. So a Diesel engine development led by Maruti makes good sense.

This is the company who reportedly encouraged a well known NGO to petition the SCI against Diesel engines!
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Old 5th November 2013, 09:32   #33
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
Guys, K series was designed and developed by Maruti for suzuki. Do not underestimate the engineering talent in India.
I don't think this is correct. The Suzuki K series engine has been in production even before it was first introduced in India in the AStar.

What Maruti engineers developed is probably the K12"M" variant to meet sub 1.2 liter capacity because the K12B engine is slighlty over 1200cc. The K12M afaik is sold only in India. K12M is a destroked variant of the K12B.
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Old 5th November 2013, 09:35   #34
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Came across the following news regarding 1.6 diesel from Fiat being provided to MSIL. The other information like compact SUV are also a bit involved in the posted article:.


Soruce : Link

Article :
Quote:


With its own diesel engine family still under development and the need felt for more powerful engines for upcoming SUV models, Maruti Suzuki now plans to import Fiat's 1.6-litre 'multijet' diesel engine from Italy starting next year, sources told FE.

To be first offered with the new SX4 Crossover (CUV) when it is launched in early-2015, the new diesel engine will help the car market leader be more competitive especially in the entry utility vehicle (UV) segment where diesel engines account for over 80% of sales and rivals like Ford and Honda already have larger and more powerful engines available.

"The upcoming SX4 crossover, which has already been launched in Europe, will be available with both a 1.3-litre and 1.6-litre diesel engines in India. The first is already made here, so the plan is to initially import the 1.6-litre diesel engine from Fiat and if the volumes are significantly high, then locally manufacture it afterwards depending on the license agreement with Fiat. This engine will later be introduced in other sedans and UVs as well," a source close to the development said.

...By then, analysts add that competitors will be well-established - the Ford EcoSport, Renault Duster and Nissan Terrano have already been launched in the past year, while Hyundai, Honda and Mahindra are also expected to launch their own compact UVs by 2015. In this light, Maruti's compact SUV in the Rs 7-8 lakh range, codenamed 'YBA' and based on the 'XA Alpha' concept shown in Delhi Auto Expo 2012, will only be launched closer to 2016. But before that in 2015, Maruti will launch the SX4 crossover (Code: YAD) in the Rs 9-10 lakh range. Later in the pipeline is larger SUV based on the 'iV4 concept' that is expected for launch by 2017.

Kenichi Ayukawa, Maruti's MD & CEO also confirmed this earlier this week. "It will be quite difficult to launch the compact SUV in 2014, I don't think that will be possible," he said when asked if the company plans to launch any SUVs next year. However, he confirmed that Suzuki is developing its own diesel engines.
WRT K-series:
K12B is 1242cc motor which was brought under 1200cc for India and then named K12M. K10B, weighing only 47 KG dry, was also developed by Suzuki for EU markets where A-star was be sold alongside its badge engineered cousin, Nissan Pixo ( Pixo is now discontinued or plans are there to discontinue Pixo ). The target was also set by Suzuki of less than 100 gms of CO2 per km. or something similar. K-series is developed by Suzuki and as Sankar mentioned, in its K12B guise has been on sale since long in EU. However, Indian engineered were involved when the K12B displacement was being reduced to create K12M.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 5th November 2013 at 09:44.
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:53   #35
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Thanks @aaggoswami

This is good news for most. However, if Maruti-Suzuki plans to import the engine from Italy, I fear the cost of the vehicle will be pushed higher in a bracket to make it less competitive.

Moreover, if the vehicle with 1.6L diesel engine is a success, I do not think MS will pass on the benefits of local production & would retain the import duties saved as premium, as in case of other manufacturers.

MS prove my assumption wrong.
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Old 5th November 2013, 11:11   #36
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
Just curious, What is the source of information for K series engines designed by Maruti ? I dont find it anywhere. All i know is Maruti is manufacturing these engines just like they are doing with MJD. but K series engines are suzuki global engines. Do share the links please.
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2000126_1.html

http://www.marutisuzuki.com/press-re...oct2-2008.aspx

http://marutistorage.blob.core.windo...ort2009-10.pdf

" The new KB series engine is a result of enormous R&D efforts and hours of design, validation and testing."

K series is global. I haven't mentioned it to be a product for Indian market only. But it cannot be ruled out that there was heavy localization, designed and developed in India using indian talent.

Sorry went OT for clarifying.
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Old 5th November 2013, 11:29   #37
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Came across the following news regarding 1.6 diesel from Fiat being provided to MSIL. The other information like compact SUV are also a bit involved in the posted article:.


Soruce : Link
I seriously doubt that is the case. This is probably just another case of hopeful and imaginary reporting of the Indian media.

Importing an engine from outside India will mean heavy import duties to be paid. Not to mention FIAT is likely to charge a bomb to MSIL/Suzuki to provide them with a whole new engine.

Let's remember, FIAT shared the 1.3L engine with Suzuki, only when they had a sort of partnership which resulted in the FIAT Sedici/Suzuki SX4. That partnership is no longer the case. They cant even significantly modify the 1.3MJD without having to continue to pay royalty per engine to FIAT.

In case of GM, the entire modern MultiJet engine was developed with financial and some technological help from GM. Thus GM get to use that engine. Tata gets to use that engine because it was and still is a 50% partner in FIAT India's manufacturing plant in Ranjangaon.

So, I seriously doubt Maruti will take the step to import engines from Italy.

And we are forgetting, there is a high chance that the 1.6MJD will be manufactured in India soon enough, as it is likely to show up in the new FIAT Linea which is expected to be launched early next year as well.
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Old 5th November 2013, 11:44   #38
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Call be pessimistic if you want to. If true, I find it a ridiculous strategy on Fiat's part to outsource the proposed 1.6Multijet engine. They need to first make Linea a seller and if its a game changer for them, may be they can outsource to MS. Even in the case of a game changer, 1.6Multijet in SX4 may just kill Linea all over again.
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Old 5th November 2013, 12:15   #39
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

Quote:
Maruti Suzuki may reduce its diesel engine supplies from Italian car maker Fiat by about half, partly because of the slowing demand for vehicles and partly because the country's largest car maker plans to fully utilise its own plant to make the same engine.

With the falling demand for diesel cars in the domestic car market that declined 5% in the first seven months of the fiscal, Maruti is now looking to source diesel engines from its captive capacity.
Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/25232152.cms

Anurag.
This would be a big blow to Fiat strategy. Their engine manufacturing unit was running in profits for the last couple of years mainly due to the engine supply to Maruti. With Maruti cutting its order and Fiat/Tata not selling enough cars, it'll be a tricky situation for them to manage with such minimal outputs expected.
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Old 5th November 2013, 12:57   #40
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
http://www.marutisuzuki.com/press-re...oct2-2008.aspx

http://marutistorage.blob.core.windo...ort2009-10.pdf

" The new KB series engine is a result of enormous R&D efforts and hours of design, validation and testing."

K series is global. I haven't mentioned it to be a product for Indian market only. But it cannot be ruled out that there was heavy localization, designed and developed in India using indian talent.

Sorry went OT for clarifying.
From http://www.marutisuzuki.com/press-re...oct2-2008.aspx

"The company has committed to set up an R&D centre and testing ground at par with Suzuki Motor Corporation, Japan as per schedule. Besides building capability in designing cars, Maruti Suzuki is also focussing on enhancing R & D in engine technology. Maruti Engineers worked as part of the Suzuki Engine Design team for the design, calibration & testing of the Engine at India & Japan. This is a step forward in building the Engine development capability"

The quotes text from the link clearly states that Maruti Engineers worked as a part of Suzuki Engine Design Team at India and Japan. The engine was designed by Suzuki Design Team and not Maruti Suzuki Engine Design team. And at the time of publishing the article maruti has committed to set up an R&D and probably progressing on it as per schedule, and soon would have the engine development capability. It can be inferred that currently they don't have the capability on their own.

The KB engine was in production in China from 2005 in the K14B and K12B guise. Thats 3 years before the K10B was put in Astar/Pixo. Suzuki has then updated the chinese spec K14 and 12B engines before launching it in other markets including India.

Last edited by Sankar : 5th November 2013 at 13:04.
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Old 5th November 2013, 13:07   #41
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

1.6 MJD deal with Fiat is some thing which has been in the news for long. So till Maruti does not issue a press release, that news would always remain under doubt. A year back I came across a similar news piece. Hence am having doubts about the same.
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Old 5th November 2013, 13:51   #42
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
Guys, K series was designed and developed by Maruti for suzuki...
Sorry! K-Series was developed by Suzuki Japan (guess Indian engineers were also a part of it) and for every K-Series engine that Maruti sells, they need to pay royalty to Suzuki. This also affects the bottom line of the Indian entity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajshenoy View Post
...Just curious, What is the source of information for K series engines designed by Maruti ? I dont find it anywhere. All i know is Maruti is manufacturing these engines just like they are doing with MJD. but K series engines are suzuki global engines. Do share the links please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
....What Maruti engineers developed is probably the K12"M" variant to meet sub 1.2 liter capacity because the K12B engine is slighlty over 1200cc. The K12M afaik is sold only in India. K12M is a destroked variant of the K12B.
===============

Quote:
Originally Posted by devsoftech View Post
...." The new KB series engine is a result of enormous R&D efforts and hours of design, validation and testing."

...But it cannot be ruled out that there was heavy localization, designed and developed in India using indian talent...
Guess you missed this point in the same article. "Maruti Suzuki engineers worked as part of the Suzuki Engine Design team for designing, calibration and testing of the K-series engine in India and Japan."


Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Maruti bought the technology from FIAT in a one-off deal - no trailing royalties, no support....
I am NOT too sure of this. From what I recollect, Maruti had to renew the license for MJD (close to the launch of Gen II Swift, IIRC) and Fiat made a killing. This would NOT have been required if that was a one-off deal.
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Old 5th November 2013, 14:46   #43
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Pray tell me what is so revolutionary between Fiat's multijet diesel engines, Hyundai CRDi, Fords TDCi etc?
The Difference is in the injection cycle .our current multijet engine can inject up to five times per cycle and multijet 2 can do 8 injections per cycle.This was done mainly through the use of a pre-injection of fuel that helped in quieting and smoothing out the running of the traditionally noisy diesel engine. bringing refinement to an all time high. The added pre-injections of fuel let the Fiat engineers precisely tune the engine for many variables... noise, vibration, harshness, fuel economy, power and emissions are all improved.I am not sure about how many injections are there for hyundai and ford units. I thinks its 3 injections per cycle .Fiat got awarded for international engine because of its lightness , efficiency and low co2 emissions.For us its difficult to even calculate the injection timing . We must appreciate them for there technical excellence . 75 , 94 bhp and 190Nm and 204nm from a 1248cc turbo diesel is indeed a achievement . Turbo lag is there but it is understandable because there is no replacement for displacement

Info : Some of the lines are from Internet

Last edited by justin.das : 5th November 2013 at 14:54.
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Old 24th June 2014, 17:53   #44
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti developing in-house 1.0L & 1.4L Diesel Engines

Update:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/37124302.cms

Its a good news. Celerio is coming with 800 cc diesel and will be smallest diesel motor in the country. Others need to watch out
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Old 24th June 2014, 20:07   #45
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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post

Its a good news. Celerio is coming with 800 cc diesel and will be smallest diesel motor in the country. Others need to watch out.
There goes another feather in the cap for Maruti if they launch the 800cc diesel mill before anyone else. I was expecting Tata to get one for the Nano but no strong updates I am seeing so the pioneer in this segment is again Maruti, hopefully.

Anurag.
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