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Old 30th April 2013, 19:31   #16
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

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Originally Posted by goandude View Post
8. no electrical accessories
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
5) All Electronics OFF.

.
How does that help? can't quite figure out how the electronics will affect the fuel efficiency.
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Old 30th April 2013, 20:08   #17
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

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How does that help? can't quite figure out how the electronics will affect the fuel efficiency.
By minimising load on the alternator
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Old 30th April 2013, 20:27   #18
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

Diesel engines are amazingly efficient. Due to their high torque at low rpm, the actual power used to keep the car at a constant cruise speed in top gear is very less, to the tune of around 15-20% or so. So keeping the car in a optimum power band should give excellent fuel economy. For the sake of trying I kept my Safari at a constant 80-90kmph in 5th gear on the expressway for about an hour. Tankful to tankful fill up gave me a fuel average of 21kmpl.. On such a heavy beast!!! So big fuel averages are possible.
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Old 30th April 2013, 20:29   #19
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

Not surprised at all. Its quite possible with modern fuel efficient turbo diesel engines if one knows right technique of using coasting and knows how the "Deceleration Fuel Cutoff" works and how to utilize that.
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Old 1st May 2013, 12:06   #20
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

For those discounting the high averages, I clocked around 415 kms in my Nano with a full tank. The stated capacity of the fuel tank is 15 litres. I pushed the car all the way till the engine died due to lack of fuel. This was on my return journey from Karnataka, two adults and moderate baggage in the car, and on the NH4 in real world traffic including two wheelers and tractors and whatnot. Including a halt at a toll plaza.
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Old 1st May 2013, 15:21   #21
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

Were any modifications done ?
Only way to achieve such figures are as per my view:
1. Rolling Start
2. Inflated low resistance tyres
3. All panel gaps sealed with duct tapes and streamlined mirrors
4. Removal of excess weight : Spare tyre, rear seats, AC components?
5. Windows up, No AC , and continuous drafting behind a truck/huge vehicle in less windy conditions.
6. Good quality fuel, maybe engine tweaked to use less fuel.
7. No electronics and coasting.
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Old 1st May 2013, 16:22   #22
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

In the second article linked in the first post of this thread is an interaction with a participant who was skeptical about the figure he was told.according to him:

1. Checkpoints at every 10 kms
2. speed limit @50 kmph
3. "Appropriate gear to be used according to speed"
4. Distance covered was 70 kms with stops at every 10 kms.
5. No special track was used


Although i have tried extreme hypermiling with inflated tires,windows up,no ac,coasting,early morning drive to avoid traffic, 75 kmph in the 5th gear, i could get a max of approx. 22 kmpl from my indigo car.

And i bet they didnt use the tankful method to measure the results.so far my conclusion is that its just a marketing exercise with no scientific measurement.

Quote:
“I could not believe when the engineer told me that my car delivered 38 kmpl. When I asked to explain how did they manage to get to this figure, they (Maruti) were not able to explain. None of the 50 of us were able to understand how did Maruti come to a mileage figure like that. All they asked us to do was to cover a distance of 70 kms with a checkpoint at every 10 kms. Once we were back, these figures were revealed.”
Read more at http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-suzuk...Rwimlli5St2.99

Last edited by drsingh : 1st May 2013 at 16:23.
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Old 1st May 2013, 23:09   #23
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

A similar thread on the Ford's Fiesta (now Classic?) doing 33 kmpl :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2847823 (Ford Fiesta Classic Spotted. EDIT : Now launched!)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post764489 (Autocar India & Ford Fiesta achieve 33 kpl?)

I don't intend to turn this into a competition thread, but see what BHPian bravo82in achieved on his Micra:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3025288
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2586069

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Marketing gimmick, like what we have seen being done by other manufacturers in the past. As it is, the ARAI FE figures are themselves not real-world figures, but the general public assume that they will get those figures and end up disappointed. Add to it, these kind of tall claims and the disappointment increases.
@supremeBaleno, I don't think that it is pure fiction. These figures can be achieved by a combination of the conditions mentioned by various members above. At the very least, it is not true that the ARAI FE figures are themselves not achievable. We have the best example of GTO's Sunny doing 23 kmpl vs the ARAI claimed 21.X kmpl
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Old 1st May 2013, 23:35   #24
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

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Originally Posted by thoma View Post
These figures can be achieved by a combination of the conditions mentioned by various members above. At the very least, it is not true that the ARAI FE figures are themselves not achievable. We have the best example of GTO's Sunny doing 23 kmpl vs the ARAI claimed 21.X kmpl
+1. I have achieved 22-23 kmpl constantly over many tank fulls on my Sunny. Also achieved 22.8 kmpl ( against the ARAI figures of 21 IIRC) on a trip to Jaipur from Delhi on my Altis when it was in the running in period and I didn't cross 2k rpm for most of the trip.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 11:20   #25
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma
@supremeBaleno, I don't think that it is pure fiction. These figures can be achieved by a combination of the conditions mentioned by various members above. At the very least, it is not true that the ARAI FE figures are themselves not achievable. We have the best example of GTO's Sunny doing 23 kmpl vs the ARAI claimed 21.X kmpl
I mentioned "real-world" and real-world is a mix of various conditions, mostly city, with limited highway (not highway-like conditions most of the time). BTW, ever tried getting the ARAI FE from a petrol car in real-world conditions ? Eg. say on the i10 ? Inspite of not being a diesel-head, I understand that diesel cars are inherently more FE than petrol, but still it would be far fetched to say that a Dzire or any other car can give 45+kmpl.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 14:24   #26
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

I saw couple of cars enroute to Navi Mumbai on Sunday 29th April.

There were multiple check points i came across, seems like owner's have to give in their MID readings at those places.

One was just after Vashi Toll Plaza and another was on Palm Beach Road.

I drove along side a new Swift Dezire and was frustrated in some time, seems like the guys participating in the rally were told to strictly adhere to speed limit of 40-50 on highest gear.

So it is possible to get high numbers, but i seriously doubt anyone will drive that slow with no breaking etc. during normal city runs.
Also, being Sunday the traffic was very less.

Only silver lining i saw was the gentlemen was driving on middle lane unlike our slow moving 3-wheelers who hog right most lane.

Cheers
MKP

Last edited by mkpiyengar : 2nd May 2013 at 14:26. Reason: additional info added
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Old 2nd May 2013, 15:59   #27
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

I heard from a friend (he participated in similar rally for Alto at Ahmedabad) that Maruti follows following procedure for these 'milage rallys'
- Fill the car at your expense at the starting point
- Maruti officials put some sort of a seal on your fuel cap
- you have to drive your car at the suggested route and get some sort of token/sign off at all check points
- once you come back, again fill your tank at Maruti's expense
- calculate the mlilage

My friend said, that by using the following tips given by Maruti he could achieve around 25 kmpl on his Alto in milage rally, which otherwise was averaging 15-18 kmpl.
- no sudden acceleration
- no sudden braking
- avoid AC
- drive in the recommended band of 50-65 (not able to recall exact number)
- overall very sedate driving -
As per my friend, winner got amazing 40+ kmpl milage.

I think, overall good move by Maruti, enhances their image of cars with good milage.
And yes, I could see that their method was fairly fullproof for arriving at a milage.

With regards,

JLS
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Old 2nd May 2013, 16:07   #28
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

I have myself not personally participated in this rally, but have a friend who was associated with conducting the rally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
These are purely Marketing Driven programmes. There could be various factors contributing to such a magical mileage. Some factors could be:

- Type of Fuel used - This could be a high quality (probably best) quality fuel directly sourced from oil companies. This might not be readily available in real world.
- Type of Tires - These could be some some modified / customized tires which cause the least friction. Who knows, they might be sourcing F1 tiers for that matter !!
- Engine mods - The engine could be modded for performance factor, but a company wouldn't possibly go that far, because a customer would only say "Maruti's engine delivers 40km/l. A customer wouldn't think of the ideal conditions while buying a car. The only think that will strike a customer is Maruti's superior engine.
- Roads - Ofcourse there are no "optimal conditions" road in India. Unless you are truck driver and always drive on Eexpressways (Yamuna for instance).
Just to answer in the same order:
Type of fuel used - Not high performance. Just normal fuel, but company sourced.
Type of tires - Maruti did not change any of the tires. The tyre pressure was however 'checked'. Hence, they could have been over inflated.
Engine mods - No modification done what so ever. Only checked for liquids.
Roads - Roads were obviously the best possible roads they could find. The idea is not to show real world figures, but to show what the car is capable of.

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
Most of these are Manufacturer backed rallies, with no third-part auditing party. Who is to certify, that the cars didn't stop midway , to refuel?
There are some that are done by the Magazines, but those are not done in real world conditions, and done at constant speeds.
The fuel tank was sealed before the start of the rally and if anyone had refueled, it would have been evident that the seal had been tampered with. With close to 2000 people participating the rally (All India combined) and the press being present in every location, I doubt if there was room for any malpractices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPJ View Post
Maruti seems desperate to tackle the threat from Honda Amaze. These mileage rallies are nothing but marketing strategies to garner some much needed public attention back to Maruti Desire.
I bet if Honda was to arrange such type of mileage rallies then the Amaze would deliver almost the same kind of fuel efficiency if not better.
Maruti is definitely doing this to tackle the threat from Honda, but I doubt if its desperate. Maruti sells two Wagon R's for every Honda sold, let us not even get started on the Dzire . I think what Maruti is doing, is reacting to threats in the market, in a good way. No cheap shots like the "trendsetter Vs. market follower" (and messing up the order of the same ). Let us not speculate, if Honda was really that confident about their mileage, I think they would DEFINITELY do a similar campaign in the following weeks.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 16:14   #29
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

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Your spreadsheet looks interesting. If it is not a problem, is it possible for you to share it?
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Old 2nd May 2013, 16:57   #30
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire delivers 45+ kmpl! Fact or Fiction?

While I'm celebrating 9 kmpl, these people are claiming 45 kmpl

Lets hope some manufacturer starts a new event for 0-100 timings and top speed with a few tips to improve
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