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Old 1st May 2013, 16:48   #1
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Default Tata and Mahindra vehicles in Car and Driver's World's 7 Worst Vehicles list

Excerpts from an article on World's 7 Worst Vehicles list from Car and Driver magazine

Quote:
Tata Indica Vista:

It’s common practice at cheap-car dealerships to disable the odometer—and therefore the speedometer—so new cars never age, so we’re not sure at what velocity the steering wheel began wobbling in this Tata. ........READ MORE

Mahindra Scorpio:

After chatting up a Mahindra salesman in his dead-empty showroom, we figured a quick test drive would be no problem. Sorry, he said, he was too busy being “the only one here.” With his work ethic duly established, we could only perform an informal walk-around of a Scorpio, the pickup that nearly launched in the U.S. during 2011. Now we’re sort of glad it didn’t make the trip to North America. .....

Conclusion:
Going in, we expected to hate everything and crack jokes all the way home. We didn’t. .........
READ MORE HERE

http://blog.caranddriver.com/crapcan...d-or-are-they/

Last edited by Mpower : 1st May 2013 at 18:18. Reason: Hi, post only excerpts & use quotes to adhere to copyright regs
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Old 1st May 2013, 17:24   #2
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Default re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

that conclusion is the uncomfortable truth.
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Old 1st May 2013, 20:31   #3
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Default Tata, Mahindra & VW in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Why is this not a surprise? The best part is the attitude of the sales guy at Mahindra, very similar to those of his counterparts here. BTW, I have included VW in my post's title bar, though am wondering why that was excluded from the title thread. VW are as much a part of the Indian car industry as the other two why leave them out. Moderators might like to change the thread title accordingly so as to give a complete picture to the members & visitors of the forum at large.
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Old 1st May 2013, 20:49   #4
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Quote:
Originally Posted by manolin View Post
that conclusion is the uncomfortable truth.
Yep, I agree, but IMHO, we need to take that with a pinch of salt given the infrastructure we have and the Indian focus on safety. I have posted multiple times asking about the safety aspects of a "brilliant" vehicle and have seldom found responses. All the reviews talk about asthetics, the interiors, the drivability and the pickup, seldom is the safety aspect included in the rating of "brilliance"
Vehicles like Scoprio, or Quatro or Xylo which are so popular in India, never stand a chance from the safety point of view in the international market which gives a lot more weightage to the safety aspect. Providing airbags and the like in a body not subjected to crash test is akin to dropping eggs from a treetop placing them in inflated polythene bags!! - to expect any thing better from a western thought process is a misplaced dream, they are absolutely right, this sort of acceptance of a vehicle can happen only in countries like India where human life has little value.
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Old 1st May 2013, 20:50   #5
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
BTW, I have included VW in my post's title bar, though am wondering why that was excluded from the title thread. VW are as much a part of the Indian car industry as the other two why leave them out.
that VW is not offered here. Those Tata and Mahindra vehicles are.

And that VW's crapiness has nothing to do with us. But Tata and Mahindra crapiness is ours. Its our work. That VW is not.

the VW does not belong in the thread title.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gops2009 View Post
Yep, I agree, but IMHO, we need to take that with a pinch of salt given the infrastructure we have and the Indian focus on safety. I have posted multiple times asking about the safety aspects of a "brilliant" vehicle and have seldom found responses. All the reviews talk about asthetics, the interiors, the drivability and the pickup, seldom is the safety aspect included in the rating of "brilliance"
Its not as if the Tata and the Mahindra are up to par in aesthetics, interiors, quality and performance.

I am sorry to say most people buying these vehicles obviously find tata and mahindra adequate on those counts.

Last edited by Harbir : 1st May 2013 at 20:54.
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Old 1st May 2013, 21:39   #6
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Then let's take Mahindra off the title too, since the double cab is not offered here either. "Our work" really? it is not as if Mahindra is a PSU, they are a private company going about their business wherever that might be. As for VW they may not offer the exact same model but then the Viva is as much derived from the Polo for that market as Vento is over here. In all fairness either VW should be added or Mahindra taken off the title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
that VW is not offered here. Those Tata and Mahindra vehicles are.

And that VW's crapiness has nothing to do with us. But Tata and Mahindra crapiness is ours. Its our work. That VW is not.

the VW does not belong in the thread title.
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Old 1st May 2013, 21:57   #7
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

In Mahindra's defense, these guys are referring to the double cab pick up. This is longer than the standard Scorpio and thus may have more flaws. But the Scorpio is quite a good vehicle and handles pretty well. This review is more from an American perspective. They are used to driving cars with huge engines while all the cars mentioned in the list are from lesser developed countries and hence is unfair to compare with those.

Regards,
-Rohan
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Old 1st May 2013, 22:24   #8
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

I think the report is from a South African perspective - a market very similar to ours. It is not an American report at all. So let's not just say that our cars don't suit American tastes and hence this report. The fact that we are ready to spend on ICE and Wheels and all the cosmetics on cars, while giving no value to safety is reflective of our overall attitude towards automobiles and safety.
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Old 1st May 2013, 22:33   #9
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Then let's take Mahindra off the title too, since the double cab is not offered here either.
No, because whatever aspects of it they commented on are true for the mahindras we get here, as far as I have seen.

Quote:
"Our work" really? it is not as if Mahindra is a PSU, they are a private company going about their business wherever that might be.
Yes, ours, as in the capabilities of the automotive industry of India, PSU or not, defining the limits of what engineers and others graduated from our schools, educated in our engineering schools, trained in our industries, endowed with western science and technology can do.



Quote:
As for VW they may not offer the exact same model but then the Viva is as much derived from the Polo for that market as Vento is over here. In all fairness either VW should be added or Mahindra taken off the title.
no, because that model of the Polo was not offered in India. Not as a polo, not as a vento, not as a vivo. There isn't anything about it that applies to the Indian polo. But much that is crap about the Scorpio double cab is true for all scorpios.

At any rate, its not about the indica or the scorpio but the fact that vehicles made by indian manufacturers figure on that list. Lets quit making excuses about how the scorpio double cab is not revelant to us because Mahindra doesn't sell it here. A Tatas and a Mahindras are listed among the world's worst cars. that is the point.

Last edited by Harbir : 1st May 2013 at 22:41.
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Old 1st May 2013, 22:50   #10
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Thanks for posting!

One thing is most of the vehicles in the list are under engineered. But Vista, I suppose, is a very well engineered product. Plastiky interiors is not what you complain about in a mass market car. Regarding the Mahindra, I agree the writer is pissed of about the dealership experience. But the vehicle got nothing to do here. Yes, it's got panel gaps... but at least it is dependable - which is what a truck has to be. A solid workhorse. It ain't America where truck buyer's shell out heavily for a luxurious and capable work horse.


Overall, these vehicles definitely don't belong in there.
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Old 1st May 2013, 22:51   #11
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

South Africa is not exactly a pinnacle of automotive technology,so anything their reviewer says, I treat with a healthy dose of scepticism. Anyways interesting to see, the reviewer is quite positive about the Vista, calling it a real car and all.

And whats with the title? The world's worst cars? Seriously? A review from a country which is in the dark shadows of a forgotten continent.

Last edited by apachelongbow : 1st May 2013 at 22:56.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 00:24   #12
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Both the Scorpio & Vista are well suited to Indian roads, tastes & middle class wallets....not sure about the other products from China & SA, probably the same case.

More importantly they are successful in their home markets
Whats the point of evaluating it with a yardstick that is not relevant or related to the original purpose?

The author does not offer a conclusion that is clear! In fact the title of the article ends with.. "or are they?" which leads me to believe that its asking questions & starting a train of thought rather than offering a definitive answer...not sure!

On the surface it comes across as classic American attitude of ignorance/mockery of anything 3rd world

Last edited by Mpower : 3rd May 2013 at 17:55.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 07:17   #13
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Both the Scorpio & Vista are well suited to Indian roads, tastes & middle class wallets....not sure about the other products from China & SA, probably the same case.

More importantly they are successful in their home markets
Whats the point of evaluating it with a yardstick that is not relevant.
That is indeed the point. He just picked a few cars from China, India and Malaysia and passed the verdict. The odd German entry is there because it’s the Polo sedan for emerging markets. As far as quality goes, the Tata or M&M cars are quite on the lines of a Geely or a Chery, and the Proton maybe marginally better in comparison. But these brands are extremely successful in their home markets, and the reviewer should know that South Africa is not Europe or America (not sure why he is so happy that the Scorpio did not make it to the US). Being another emerging market, he should have made this comparison with some home-made cars (not sure if there are any).

Probably trying to do Jeremy Clarkson kind of a review, but quite a bland effort!
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Old 2nd May 2013, 07:38   #14
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

Folks, the article somehow appeared to give a different message to me. It looks like they picked up some cars voted as the worst cars (by someone) to see if they are really bad and sort of gives their take on the ranking. It is incidental that in this case it involved two Indian cars. So why take offense, don't we ridicule products from Tatas and Mahindras?
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Old 2nd May 2013, 07:39   #15
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Default Re: Tata & Mahindra in Car & Driver's 7 Worst vehicles list

That article has some good points too, for the Indica Vista. Take a look.
Quote:
...the cabin is quiet, and the engine could be considered civilized. The plasticky interior isn’t much worse than that of a last-gen Toyota Yaris, save for the persistent glue stench and the grease left on our fingers after adjusting the steering column. The clutch pedal feels as stretchy as string cheese, though, and there’s nothing even close to a discernible engagement point. A key point in the Indica’s favor: Its high ride height is a blessing on South Africa’s potholed rural roads. This one’s basically a real car.
Further, the Cherry QQ3 is nothing but the chinese copy cat of the Daewoo Matiz.

Last edited by rajeev k : 2nd May 2013 at 07:45.
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