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Old 21st May 2013, 13:54   #31
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

The accident figures in India are not surprising, considering the fact that we rarely reach our home back after a 50+ km drive without seeing an accident vehicle or shattered glass or at least some rider's blood-stained footwear on the road.

People don't understand the importance of wearing helmet or seat-belt, how many times we say. Roads remain narrow like the officials' mindset( at least in Kerala). These figures, I strongly believe, will keep on moving up...
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Old 21st May 2013, 14:42   #32
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
The report says in india seatbelt is compulsory for all passengers ie. both front and rear. Is this correct?
Technocrat did some digging and found this:

• Country/area : India
• There is a national seat-belt law : Yes
• THE LAW applies to all occupants : Yes
• ENFORCEMENT is applied to the following occupants - Front seat occupants only!

SOURCE: Table A.4: Seat-belt and child restraint laws, enforcement and ...
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Why dont we compare the ratio of deaths on road versus population of the country?
If you look at the right, there is a column titled : "Death rate per 100,000 population."

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Consider that India has 5 times the population of USA, and with 130k deaths a year, it is only 4 times the 32k deaths a year in USA. ... Now we see that US has more road fatalites/per person compared to India, this in spite of them having excellent roads, primary and secondary health care facilites a police and emergency response team that works.
What we should actually be comparing the death rate to, is the number of road users in each country! And i can assure you that the USA has wayyyyy more car/bike owners than India does.

Yearly car sales in the USA are 7-times that of the Indian market. Factor that in if you want a comparo that shows a real picture!


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Originally Posted by Chris_Xtreme View Post
I was told that the life of an ISI helmet is 2 yrs and should be replaced without fail post 2 years however the condition is.
Not sure about helmets, but its quite possible this is some sort of "best practice".

I know that when it comes to 4-point and 5-point racing harnesses, the manufacturers (and race rules) say that they should be replaced every X years. (2-4 years if i remember correct).

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Originally Posted by ashtorque View Post
This problem will NOT be solved by training cops or installing cameras. We are a huge country with very small budget. This problem will only be solved by self-discipline.
Ideally yes, I agree that self-discipline and an understand of the reasoning is the most powerful driving force for following certain procedures and rules. However, its much harder to change people's minds than it is to change their actions!

Law enforcement is an external force for those who aren't capable of applying an internal discipline.

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Last edited by Rehaan : 21st May 2013 at 14:52.
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Old 21st May 2013, 15:24   #33
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

I have a suggestion regarding overspeeding. Since most/may be all the new cars sold for the past 6-8 years in India come with ECU equipped engines, is there not a way to harness say RFID via smart toll card/toll booth to restrict the car electronically to mantain the published speed for that road way?
For example: A car enters the Mumbai-Pune expressway, when buying the toll, the driver gets a RFID smart card in place of the toll reciept which he must preserve until he reaches the other toll booth towards Pune. The RFID chip has instructions engraved to make his car's ECU mantain a road speed of maximum 80kmph. Voila. Automatic speed enforcement.
I know this sounds like big brother, but with majority of Indians worse than KG children in mantaining self disipline, this seems the only logical way to have 100% implementation of road safety.
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Old 21st May 2013, 17:15   #34
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
The RFID chip has instructions engraved to make his car's ECU mantain a road speed of maximum 80kmph. Voila. Automatic speed enforcement.
Thats a very good idea. A default max speed limit (eg. 80-100 km/h) which can only be increased on specific roadways / highways.

The Nissan GT-R has something like this. The max speed is limited to 180 km/h, but if the on-board GPS detects that you're at a race track, it removes the limiter

Unfortunately, high-speeds are only part responsible for the traffic accidents and deaths in India. Poor condition of vehicles, bad road infrastructure (signage, barriers, etc) and lack of training & discipline of road users also make up a large part of the cause.


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Old 21st May 2013, 18:02   #35
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

My 2 cents

In India getting license is very easy & driving is difficult, but in other countries getting license is very very difficult & driving is easy.

1. Re validate all driving licenses again through a strict and genuine transport agency. This will bring down the "L" category drivers to a very large extent. Drivers should pass difficult tests (eg: parking in between two cars on a slope during a rainy night)
2. Make an uniform method of driving classes across India like CBSE education.Teach drivers to be patient on the road.
3. Create a drivers handbook with all information about all Indian roads and rules (nothing is there now)
4. Have seen many two wheeler accidents happening by overtaking on the left side of a Bus or a Truck. This has to be banned.
5. Have uniform signage's & traffic signals across Indian roads. Drivers should not view the status of other traffic light while waiting for a signal. This will avoid jumping before green or red.

My cousin is on a vacation to my house and learns driving. She is going to appear for road test in a weeks time and asking me to influence the RTO authorities through some known sources. I strictly said NO and have asked to do extra classes before appearing for the test.
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Old 21st May 2013, 20:23   #36
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

Excellent Report Rehaan.

I am surprised to see that US does not have comprehensive helmet & seat belt law whereas India has them.

Like GTO said, LAW ENFORCEMENT, two words that can change a lot.
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Old 21st May 2013, 21:12   #37
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
As i mentioned i am not questioning the efficacy of wearing seat-belts, what i am trying to figure out is what does the law say in india. My understanding is that only front passengers are required but the WHO reports seems to suggest otherwise
And you did not read between the lines bro. Till the time someone states in black and white, it is good to wear the rear seat belts as well. It will not only save the occupants, but also save you from from the hungry money mongers who can make 'not wearing the rear seat belt' a crime and penalize you.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 10:59   #38
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

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Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
When the government reads this report, they may try to fix what seems to be the most common cause of accidents: speed.

Unfortunately, the authorities will not dig deeper into finding the root causes of accidents. If all vehicles in one lane of a highway move at the same speed, will there ever be accidents? Lower speed limit should be enforced as much as the upper limit.

Most importantly, the police force needs to be trained to be proactive. Wherever we see, the police is only reactive. They rarely try to prevent a mishap (be it minor or major). Instead, they wait for the mishap to occur, and then try to solve it!
Absolutely agree on lower speed limits point. Its important, and overlooked. Its time we had a scientific road policy. Beyond a certain density of traffic, roads must be 4 laned as minimum with service lane for bikers. With lower speed limit on outer lane.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 11:25   #39
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

As far as India is concerned, Law enforcement has always been lacklustre because of the way the police force works. I don't blame he police force but from what i have seen, the conditions for them are to be improved a lot. Let us be frank, has any one of us dreamt on being a cop? For all we know, we might have thought about it as a child and then after seeing everything around us, we might have just given up.

In my opinion, these are the following methods that accidents can be reduced:

1. Enforce the helmet rule and spare no one.
2. Enforce the seat belt rule and spare no one.
3. Enforce lane discipline and catch the violators and let them be given gyaan regarding what are the do's/dont's as a phamplet.
4. Bi Annual traffic rules awareness campaigns, safe driving practices and also, driving skills which can be taught to the attendees.
5. Fitness checkup with a mandatory eye checkup every year. This will ensure that only people fit enough to drive hit the roads in their vehicles.
6. For heaven's sake, increase the salary of the policewalas. Their conditions are deplorable.
7. Speed limits in accident prone areas with CCTV and then, send a snap with a challan to the person. Increase the fine exponentially for each violation.
8. A course for the policewallahs regarding PR. Yes, this is important. Policewallahs are here to serve the citizens. They have to be made to understand the significance of the khaki dress and also, the badge.
Only if these points are enforced will the traffic situation improve.

p.s: regarding the automatic speed limit enforcement. It definitely will not bode well with the majority of the people who have shelled out big bucks on swanky cars.

Last edited by Arch-Angel : 23rd May 2013 at 11:31.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 15:01   #40
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

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Originally Posted by PapaBravo View Post
Excellent Report Rehaan.

I am surprised to see that US does not have comprehensive helmet & seat belt law whereas India has them.

Like GTO said, LAW ENFORCEMENT, two words that can change a lot.
As far as I'm aware most states in the US do have mandatory seat belt laws. On helmets it varies hugely, some states do some states don't. Some states have mandatory bicycle helmet laws! (Eg. California?)

We often think as the US as one country, which they are, but these sort of laws, and other types of legislation can vary considerably from State to State. There is no national/federal law on this as such.

Also, there is very little evidence, around the globe, that LAW ENFORCEMENT is a big factor in getting people to wear safety belts and or helmets. It's far more about eduction, attitude, social/cultural context and awareness that ultemately increases it.

Maybe as an example; Drink&Driving has been a big thing in Europe and the USA for a very long time. A very long time. And since it became law it has been enforced in the respective countries by the police.

But the real impact was made through publlic campaigns where in the course of a number of years the approach/view of drink/driving was changed. It is simply not a socially acceptable thing to do any more. So law enforcement has of course a place, but in order for anything to have a real material impact you need to change people's attitude. That means education, PR, social acceptance etc.

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Old 23rd May 2013, 18:43   #41
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

Just enforcing speed limits of having limiters will not solve the problem.
What about these:

1. Heavy vehicles hogging the Right most lane @40kmpl making it necessary for you to switch lane to left and then again to right.

2. Heavy vehicles driving with no brake lights or reflectors. You cannot see them till last moment, sometimes it might be too late.

3. Vehicles driving from wrong side of the road.

4. Pedestrians walking on the middle of the road deeply engrossed in conversation on mobile.

We can only hope of some improvement with Stricter enforcement. As GTO says if you drive down from Pune to Mumbai, then as soon as you enter Mumbai the cabbies wear seat belt. Why is this so because cops in Mumbai will catch them.

We need stricter enforcement at all levels even in tier-2 cities like Pune. Reason being we have more vehicles on the road as well as the vehicles are getting more powerful and easy to drive. That all the more calls for responsible driving.

If a school boy is dragged along to cross the road without paying attention to signal etc. then when he grows up he will follow same example whether driving or walking. The cannot suddenly become smart and start following rules.

All said and done if the Govt has the will to implement half of the sensible laws we have, much of the misery would be removed.

Cheers
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Old 24th May 2013, 11:18   #42
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Also, there is very little evidence, around the globe, that LAW ENFORCEMENT is a big factor in getting people to wear safety belts and or helmets. It's far more about eduction, attitude, social/cultural context and awareness that ultemately increases it.
As much as i agree with the sentiment in the latter part of your quote, i have to say that i completely disagree with your point about law enforcement not being a big factor.

In a Utopian world, sure. I'd agree 100%.

However, in India, what i hear more often than not is :
"Hey man, i hope you're not driving... there's naka-bandhis (police checkposts) everywhere tonight".


Responsibility can be a powerful motivator, but so can fear!

Unfortunately, responsibility and intelligence takes far longer to cultivate than fear. So rather than waiting around for our road using population to get smarter, I'll settle for some strict law enforcement to kick-start that change!

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Old 24th May 2013, 16:32   #43
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Technocrat did some digging and found this:
[indent]
• Country/area : India
• There is a national seat-belt law : Yes
• THE LAW applies to all occupants : Yes
• ENFORCEMENT is applied to the following occupants - Front seat occupants only!

R
thanks, this indeed is an eye opener that the law states all passengers. I don't think even the cops are aware that it is applicable to rear seat passengers.

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Originally Posted by nkishore_007 View Post
And you did not read between the lines bro. Till the time someone states in black and white, it is good to wear the rear seat belts as well. It will not only save the occupants, but also save you from from the hungry money mongers who can make 'not wearing the rear seat belt' a crime and penalize you.
it is always better to wear seat belts.. no two opinions about. my question was purely from a legal stand point
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Old 24th May 2013, 17:47   #44
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

Wearing a helmet while entering one of the military areas in Pune is compulsory and we are well known to not lose any business opportunity. So, they rent helmets along the road side there. Some, are 10 year old cricket helmets, and some look like a 10 year old's skating helmet!
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Old 24th May 2013, 18:58   #45
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Default Re: 2013 WHO Report on Road Safety : Eye-opening figures

Do any of us have information on what kind of training our traffic police receive, and what information does the training material contain? I am sure that the training process and material are outdated. Well, when the law itself is so outdated (e.g., left ORVM is still not compulsary - it was fine in 2 lane highways), we cannot really expect the police to receive quality training. Also, once they receive the training, that probably lasts their life time. That is, they are not updated once in 3-4 years.
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