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Old 22nd May 2013, 16:39   #16
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

Firstly, Maruti blaming you for going to a different 'dealer' than the one the car was brought from is 'RIDICULOUS'. I can buy a car in Mumbai and have a dealer in Leh inspect it if I find something wrong with it when I am there.

Secondly, I really think you jumped the gun with the consumer court. Maruti generally is very pro active in its replacements and warranty claims. Should have given a chance to them to fix the needful and need be replace the necessary parts which would have probably got damaged in the over heating.

I am sure they would have not overhauled a 10 or 20 kilometre engine which seized for overheating due to parts failure and handed you the car. They would have replaced it in that case is what I am 99.99% sure of because of my past experiences with them.

Since you took the court route, they are playing with you in that direction as they will have to respond some way or the other as their reputation is at stake and ego's too I believe when it comes to these babu run companies.

If I were you, I would sit down with them on the negotiating table and sort it out, not paying the EMI's after paying them for 2 years will be wounding in case of finances as from the description it looks like its a 3 year old, not paying would have been a manageable option if you would have stopped the EMI's right from day one.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 16:54   #17
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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Firstly, Maruti blaming you for going to a different 'dealer' than the one the car was brought from is 'RIDICULOUS'. I can buy a car in Mumbai and have a dealer in Leh inspect it if I find something wrong with it when I am there.
Now that is really ridiculous!

What is a 'different dealer' thing? Its Maruti who has authorized a business to become its dealer and hence a representative. I can get my vehicle checked at any ASC even if I am in my city, forget Leh & Ladakh. I think this might be a stupid gag pulled up by the dealer himself rather than the manufacturer.

The most important thing one should consider before suing a car manufacturer is that it frees them not to put forward any comment/ excuse, etc. in public or media, citing the fact that the 'matter is subjudice'.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 16:54   #18
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

Recently, SC has ordered that writ petitions cannot be filed against consumer court judgments. Please see if this helps > http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-act-fora-writ
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Old 22nd May 2013, 17:01   #19
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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Recently, SC has ordered that writ petitions cannot be filed against consumer court judgments. Please see if this helps > http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-act-fora-writ
Am I to understand that now all consumer court judgments are final? And nobody can appeal further against this decision?
If yes, then its a very good news for the consumers and of course, pretty bad for the manufacturers as they now cannot delay the process and frustrate the consumer who eventually may not have means to contest a 20 year trial in a court.

If that is really true, then can we expect some quick redressal of several cases pending against manufacturers like Mr. Harish?

Hope we do not get
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Old 22nd May 2013, 17:04   #20
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If she stops paying the EMI her credit score will be badly hit and will follow her when she applies for any future loans, credit cards, financial services etc. Now, as a person in such a pickle you can decide a poor credit score is the lesser of two evils and stop paying EMIs. All I wanted to point out is that it's not a decision without consequence.

Sad as this case is, the legal option should really only be used as a last resort with full awareness of what it entails and how long it may take. If the company in good faith offers to rectify the problem then one should take it. In this particular case, it seems to me it was a knee jerk reaction to not accept offers to resolve the issue and rush to court. Once in court, the company's lawyers take over and they have their own incentives to win and prolong the case. Also one can't blame Maruti for appealing, it's their legal right.
http://www.moneylife.in/article/cred...ero/30998.html. -- so much for the credit scores...!
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Old 22nd May 2013, 17:21   #21
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

I had a relatively minor issue with my Fiat Linea - every 3-4 months since I bought the car, the horn would stop working. Initially, it was the left side then the right side till the horn completely stopped working. Every few months, they would "fix" the issue only for it to resurface in 3 months time. When it happened once again for the 5th time they finally got some guy from Pune to look at it and he assured me that now the problem is "fixed for good". The "for good" happened to be 5-6 months and the same problem came back. I took it back to the service centre which promptly informed me that the horn is defective and the cost to replace the entire system is 25k now that the Linea is out of the 2 year warranty. I asked him why didn't they inform me when the issue first came to light and that they were supposed to replace it for free when under full warranty. They gave a very vague reply and offered to waive off the labour charges. I bombarded pretty much everyone at Fiat corporate office with a series of e-mails over a period of a week. Finally, they did agree that they screwed up and offered to install a full new system for free. I told them that I am so fed up of their service that I am not even going to drive to their service centre - and they should pick it up and deliver it. They did all of that. No problem since.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 17:52   #22
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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I had a relatively minor issue with my Fiat Linea - every 3-4 months since I bought the car, the horn would stop working. Initially, it was the left side then the right side till the horn completely stopped working. Every few months, they would "fix" the issue only for it to resurface in 3 months time. When it happened once again for the 5th time they finally got some guy from Pune to look at it and he assured me that now the problem is "fixed for good". The "for good" happened to be 5-6 months and the same problem came back. I took it back to the service centre which promptly informed me that the horn is defective and the cost to replace the entire system is 25k now that the Linea is out of the 2 year warranty. I asked him why didn't they inform me when the issue first came to light and that they were supposed to replace it for free when under full warranty. They gave a very vague reply and offered to waive off the labour charges. I bombarded pretty much everyone at Fiat corporate office with a series of e-mails over a period of a week. Finally, they did agree that they screwed up and offered to install a full new system for free. I told them that I am so fed up of their service that I am not even going to drive to their service centre - and they should pick it up and deliver it. They did all of that. No problem since.
Good that it ended well...but 25k for a horn? Is it our National Horn too? Going by this, our National Engine must be costing crores to replace?
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Old 22nd May 2013, 18:45   #23
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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Good that it ended well...but 25k for a horn? Is it our National Horn too? Going by this, our National Engine must be costing crores to replace?
Well - from what I understand it was so high because of the airbag. It wasn't just the horn - the entire assembly needed to be changed.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 22:34   #24
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

From whatever has been posted by the OP, it does not seem like a manufacturing defect, rather a chain of events that led to the unfortunate outcome. Here's my take on this - the car was delivered with a low on charge battery (it might have been lying there in the stockyard for sometime), then again it was not used for 10 days which caused the battery to drain out completely. When it was charged by the local electrician, due to carelessness there could have been an electrical surge and the fuse of the fan blew. (A fuse can in fact blow without any cause as well and hence is not covered under warranty also.) When they started driving, in absence of the cooling, the engine overheated and the coolant blew over. Now, this is not a manufacturing defect per se. Rather the onus lies with the dealer for delivering the car with a fully charged battery. Now, think about it from the manufacturers perspective. Is it a serious manufacturing or engineering defect? Does this warrant the replacement of the car? Well, no. If the battery had been fully charged, all this probably would not have happened. Now, I don't think any manufacturer would replace a car for a blown fuse or a discharged battery.
So, in this case, I think going to the courts for a replacement car was a bit of a knee jerk reaction and as someone already has rightly said that once the case goes to the courts, the lawyers take over, dragging it over and over in "taarikh pe taarikh" style. Rather, they should have accepted the fix proposed by Maruti and now would have been using the car without any issues. Having said that, I am all for going to courts if any serious defect or design issue crops up in our vehicles and there are attempts by the company to cover up. But, in this case, I'm not too sure. Of course, all those blame game of "going to different dealer for checking up" etc. sounds like dealer SA talks, and not from the company itself as nobody from the company in his sane mind would probably say that. (If someone from the company has really said that, one should definitely complain to the higher ups and he should surely be taken to task).
I still think Maruti is one of the more customer centric manufacturers and are quite proactive in solving customer issues. As an example, I still remember Maruti replacing the entire engine of my uncle's 800 because it had seized. In that case, the car was serviced at ASC only the previous day and they had put the engine oil drain nut loosely and it fell off leading to all engine oil draining out. The oil warning light had come on but he being a new driver did not know what to do and drove on resulting in the engine seizure. But, Maruti did replace the engine as a goodwill gesture under warranty without much hassle, as it was their ASC who had put the drain nut loosely in the first place. Though it does not imply that one should ignore the telltale warning signs and expect the company to provide cover in all such cases.

Disclaimer: Though am trying to deduce some meaning in this present case and playing Sherlock, we don't really have sufficient information to take anyones side. So, would like to clarify that I am not trying to take Maruti's side (I myself have a history of more than 2 years of long drawn fight with them, albeit out of the courts). Am just trying to piece together what could have happened based on limited information.

Last edited by wanderer4x4 : 22nd May 2013 at 22:57.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 23:32   #25
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

Maruti Cars are great - It is a freak incident - Allow the company to Fix it.
I used a Wagon R Dec. 2000 Model upto 2011. The Car was a delight - Gave 13.5-16.5 Kmpl with A.C and swallowed more Luggage than my Mercedes Benz.
My Swift 2007 VDI - Have not spent even a Rupee on it except Routine Oil Change. I have a 2012 Wagon R now - No problems at all although - Older one felt better with A.C on as far as the Power goes.

I am saying this after driving 300 different Cars across the World - including the Porsche 911 most recently.

Wagon R is not a bad car - It is one of the best. Infinitely better than the competetion.

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Last edited by moralfibre : 23rd May 2013 at 09:15.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 09:38   #26
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

Settle it out of courts please, from the description and the discussions / observations of various forum members it seems that the company was not at fault, the dealer might be.

1. Bring your car home, it does not deserve that kind of treatment by keeping it parked at the dealer until the dispute ends.

2. You have already eroded more than 50% of its market value since its purchase.

3. The car is not lemon - mind it.

4. The damage could have happened due to series of events, as they say - not a single fault is responsible for mishaps, its has to be multiple, in your case

- Poor PDI
- Parking the car for long (there could be a possibility of leaving the light on too, resulting in battery drain - petrol cars have smaller batteries too, but 10 days or whatever is quite long for any battery to drain off)
- Irresponsible charging of battery (pardon me for using the word irresponsible)
- Missing the overheating gauge (engine temperature)
- Breakdown of engine (it has not even completed running in, thus it was quick as new engines reach peak operating temperature early due to slightly high level of friction between machined parts else in most of the cases it can pull on some distance - like you mentioned about the trip to Church and their it would have cooled down by the time you would have finished prayers)
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Old 23rd May 2013, 10:12   #27
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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
...Rather the onus lies with the dealer for delivering the car with a fully charged battery...
My doubt is generic, and only loosely related to the topic. How do we ensure that the battery is fully charged, during PDI? Do the dealers provide an amp meter or something?
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Old 23rd May 2013, 10:29   #28
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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My doubt is generic, and only loosely related to the topic. How do we ensure that the battery is fully charged, during PDI? Do the dealers provide an amp meter or something?
some newer generation batteries come with a colour indicator on charge/specific gravity levels on the top of the battery. Otherwise, it needs to be checked by a voltmeter. Easily available check in all the battery shops.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 10:33   #29
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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My doubt is generic, and only loosely related to the topic. How do we ensure that the battery is fully charged, during PDI? Do the dealers provide an amp meter or something?
+1. There is no way to check the battery charge levels at the time of delivery. All this sounds good and logical on paper but is it practical? I don't think its mentioned in the TBHP checklist even.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 10:53   #30
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Default Re: Bought new WagonR, suffered breakdown, fighting in court with Maruti

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+1. There is no way to check the battery charge levels at the time of delivery. All this sounds good and logical on paper but is it practical? I don't think its mentioned in the TBHP checklist even.
Agree that it is impractical to check the status of charge held by the battery during the PDI BUT a discharged battery is not something which needs rocket science to charge and surely won't cost a bomb. Hence, IMO it's least of an issue. What we need to know is that the battery was charged with proper procedure being followed and was the dealer informed that the battery had died? I am sure that the dealer would have offered a remedy like charging the battery or might have even replaced it free of cost. I had a similar experience but with my bike. The battery died the next day I bought the bike. I took it to the dealership and they replaced the battery then & there. They probably put the old battery on charge and fitted one from another new bike. Even gave me a new warranty card for the new battery too. All this from a Honda dealership, which are not known to be very customer centric.

On another note, a lot of batteries will die during the lifetime of the car, which either would be put on charge or replaced altogether. What if improper procedure of charging leads to such failures later? Will people still blame the manufacturer or the dealer?

Some points:

1. I can understand the agony of the people who bought a brand new car, but a died battery or a fuse that blew up simply does not qualifies a car to be termed as a lemon.

2. And as someone rightly said that during all this ordeal, the family has been living without this car (they might have other cars but they paid for this one too, right?) for the last 2 years. & they have to bear the load of EMIs too for no services of the car?

3. And why in the world they have left the car at dealership? Who will take care of it? Even if they had filed a case, they could have kept the car with themselves.

4. They have already depreciated the car by a good value and since the car is lying unused, unsupervised, it is just rotting & decaying at the dealership. Why?

Would like to hear from the OP and if we or I am making any assumption mistake, I would love be corrected.

Regards,
Saket

Last edited by saket77 : 23rd May 2013 at 10:58.
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