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Old 22nd November 2007, 00:03   #166
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Originally Posted by spittingfire View Post
How Can you leave this post without Pajero. Have you ever driven it? The Mother of all SUV's..........................
I actually like the Pajero 2.8 although I think it should be in the same price range as the Endy and not a cent more. What really put me off is the strange multi color paint job that Hindustan motors came up with. It looks like some on e drove it out of the paint shop before it was fully finished. Who are these brains in Hindustan motors who come up with this half brained schemes. Sell an 18 lack SUV with multiple colors !! How come none of the major world manufacturers come up with such *great* ideas? I would like to meet them personally and slap them on the face !
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Old 22nd November 2007, 02:28   #167
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4x4addict - I find that colour option quite cool, nothing bad, a red and white combo always looks good.

Only if Pajero 2.8 had a better engine.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:53   #168
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Hey When I said Montero, in my mind atleast I had Pajero.
Sorry about that , I should've written that.
Pajero definatley is an real SUV.

But I don't buy Sumrai's statement that Grand Vitara is full size SUV.
- NO WAY.......

In a classic SUV definition, it doesn't picture at all.
People in India call any big vehicle as SUV, So I don't buy what they write. Some people wrote Innova as SUV !!.
To me its MUV(Multi Utility Vehicle) not SUV.

For me SUV's are Land Cruiser/Pajero/Montero/Endeavor/Terracan/Scorpio.

I am not biased on any brand or vehicle here.

Anju
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:16   #169
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anju, why is GV not a SUV?
IT has 4WD(innova does not)
It has Diff locks (CRV etc., do not)

It may not be as capable as the Land Rover, but its definitely a SUV
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:44   #170
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Secondly the Grand Vitara doesn't belong in the second group. It is more an off-roader than on-roader unlike the other two.
Sorry - it is classified as a soft-roader in almost all markets where it is sold.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:52   #171
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Originally Posted by Anju View Post
For me SUV's are Land Cruiser/Pajero/Montero/Endeavor/Terracan/Scorpio.

I am not biased on any brand or vehicle here.
Anju
Any particular reason you aren't including Safari in this picture ? It has 4X4 with LSD (not the psychedelic variety).

You have referred to classic SUV definition in your posts. Please do share you version of it.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 10:45   #172
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Actually I want to know what is wrong about petrol SUV other than FE. Please provide facts, not mere opinions.
I'll try this one:

Interesting point. That an SUV should be a diesel powerplant is really a kind of 'modern' viewpoint. It is only lately, with the new generation diesels that compression ignition engines have become acceptable in the passenger car segment.
For decades diesel engines were too crude and with unacceptable NVH levels. More importantly they could not 'deal' well with altitudes (above about 8000 ft in particulr) - rapid de-rating of power and humongous amounts of black smoke. Petrol engines were really the only viable alternative. The fuel-air mix could also be easily 'tweaked' as required and the timing could be altered in a jiffy. (Pre-ECU days). The superiority of the Gypsy those days was plain to see, vis-a-vis the Mahindras and the Tatas, particularly in the mountains.
With the new generation diesel engines the scenario has changed dramatically.
Today there is a strong case for diesel engines in SUVs because of the innate strengths of excellent torque delivery and absence of spark-ignition elements which detract from ultimate reliability.
The quietness and refinement with which a petrol engine goes about it's job is still utterly enviable compared to the racket that a diesel engine cannot supress!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:54   #173
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Originally Posted by Anju View Post
But I don't buy Sumrai's statement that Grand Vitara is full size SUV.
- NO WAY.......
Funny, I don't remember saying GV is a full size SUV. It is a small SUV, it is even shorter than SX4.

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Sorry - it is classified as a soft-roader in almost all markets where it is sold.
Yeah, that's a sorry classification. Every reviewer puts it otherwise. Even hardcore 4x4 reviewers like this: 4X4REVIEW.COM - 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara XSport

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Today there is a strong case for diesel engines in SUVs because of the innate strengths of excellent torque delivery and absence of spark-ignition elements which detract from ultimate reliability.
The quietness and refinement with which a petrol engine goes about it's job is still utterly enviable compared to the racket that a diesel engine cannot supress!
That's a very good point. Now diesels make good SUVs, that doesn't mean petrols have no business being SUVs. It is not a mutually exclusive club.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 13:09   #174
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Originally Posted by Anju View Post
For me SUV's are LandCruiser/Pajero/Montero/Endeavor/Terracan/Scorpio.
I hope you do regard 4WD as being an imperative for being classified as a SUV. Ninety percent of the Scorpios you see are 2WD variants and in MY BOOK they are MUVs. Only 4WD can be considered for the SUV category.
Where does the Gypsy fit in your book?

Last edited by anupmathur : 22nd November 2007 at 13:11.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 13:14   #175
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
What really put me off is the strange multi color paint job that Hindustan motors came up with. It looks like some on e drove it out of the paint shop before it was fully finished.
Roger that.
I look upon it as a 'frivolous' paint job on an otherwise perfectly serious SUV!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 13:42   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
I hope you do regard 4WD as being an imperative for being classified as a SUV. Ninety percent of the Scorpios you see are 2WD variants and in MY BOOK they are MUVs. Only 4WD can be considered for the SUV category.
Where does the Gypsy fit in your book?
Any 4WD without diff locks(or limited slip differentials) is not really a proper SUV
As for Gypsy, thats an extremely capable offroader. You can literally go anywhere in the 4L mode.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 14:09   #177
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Any 4WD without diff locks(or limited slip differentials) is not really a proper SUV
As for Gypsy, thats an extremely capable offroader. You can literally go anywhere in the 4L mode.
But does it (the Gypsy) come in the SUV category?
Frankly, I think there since are no conventions or agreements regarding SUV classification, it remains a very subjective assignment.
As for whether diff locks are mandatory for SUV classification, again it remains 'undefined' and therefore subjective and therefore 'meaningless'.
Of course a 'true-blue' SUV must have independent diff-locks. But then, that is 'opinion'!

Last edited by anupmathur : 22nd November 2007 at 14:10.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 14:32   #178
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
anju, why is GV not a SUV?
IT has 4WD(innova does not)
It has Diff locks (CRV etc., do not)

It may not be as capable as the Land Rover, but its definitely a SUV
SUV stands for Sports Utility Vehicle. What kind of sports utility jobs can vehicles like Innova, Scorpio, Safari do?
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Old 22nd November 2007, 14:34   #179
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I think we are getting confused with SUV, MUV and 4X4 vehicles here
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Old 22nd November 2007, 14:39   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Yeah, that's a sorry classification. Every reviewer puts it otherwise. Even hardcore 4x4 reviewers like this: 4X4REVIEW.COM - 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara XSport
Care to read the engine specs please. But otherwise all is A-OK.
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