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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:04   #181
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I think whole confusion is because of not having clear definition or common understanding of SUV/MUV,Cross overs. Our Society of Indian Autobile Industry seldom did anything to define them and educate it to consumer like us.

If you choose to call all big vehicles as SUVs, then we need to classify them as
Small SUV,
Crossover SUV,
Midsize/Full size SUV,(you may debate whu mid and full in same category)

So here are the vehicles which falls in these three catgories(please add/modify)

1. Small SUV,
- Gypsy,
2. Crossover SUV,
- Grand Vitara,CR-V,Tuscan,
3. Midsize/Full size SUV,
- Pajero/Montero/Land Cruiser/Terracan/Scorpio/Endeavor.

(Now classically, the third category were/are called as classic SUV in one school of thoughts.By definition,these should carry passengers of station wagan(5-9) but have towing capacity of pick up trucks(more laod carrying capacity-aka Scoprio Getaway) and have on and off road capability( ex 4WD/AWD).
So crossovers such as GV/CR-V do not have high GAWR(Gross Axle weight Rating-laod carrying capacity) like Land Cruiser or Terracan do.
Hence they are not classic SUVs.
So while 4WD is feature of classic SUV, not all 4WD necessarily a classic SUV.))

To avoid confusion let all BHPian(if you guys agree) use those three classification and try to standardise what we call them.

I hope you would not curse me for what I've written above which is off topic.

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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:09   #182
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And hey,
4X4REVIEW.COM - 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara XSport

In this review they NEVER EVER called GV as SUV !!.
They are telling its does very good job on Off Road (coz of motor and 4WD)

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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:09   #183
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hmm check this out

Car classification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says compact SUV for Crv. No mention of GV but SX4 as SUV

and

Sport utility vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Jaggu : 22nd November 2007 at 16:18. Reason: reading up
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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:11   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anju View Post
1. Small SUV,
- Gypsy,
2. Crossover SUV,
- Grand Vitara,CR-V,Tuscan,
3. Midsize/Full size SUV,
- Pajero/Montero/Land Cruiser/Terracan/Scorpio/Endeavor.

To avoid confusion let all BHPian(if you guys agree) use those three classification and try to standardise what we call them.

I hope you would not curse me for what I've written above which is off topic.
You will never be forgiven for omitting the Safari from your list. It seems to be the love of most T-BHPians! Everything else is off topic!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:24   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anju View Post
2. Crossover SUV,
- Grand Vitara,CR-V,Tuscan,
These are not crossover SUV's.A crossover SUV would be a Sabaru Forester or the Audi A6 Allroad etc.

The CR-V,Tuscan,RAV4,X3,X5 are SAV(Sports Activity Vehicles).The have very limited off-road capability and designed mainly for city use.

The Grand Vitara on the other hand falls in the small SUV segment.the XL-7 based on the GV is a proper SUV.Those who know the GV will agree that it is a proper off-roader with lockable diffs and low-range transmission.It is quite capable off-road like the Gypsy which is known as the Samurai elsewhere.I will include the LR Freelander in this class.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 22nd November 2007 at 16:25.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:26   #186
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safari is not a true offroader in stock form. Its just a semi offroader, and due to limited slip differential may fare slightly better than the scorpio
If you get stuck, its very difficult to get out without diff locks.
Many times you will have 1 front and 1 rear wheel loose traction, and then all you can do is spin aimlessly.
So either you have to be towed out, or you need to do the clutch burning, brake and accelerate maneuver.
As for SUV, the term is much abused. In a broader sense any 4WD comfortable vehicle is classified as SUV. But being a SUV does not mean its a perfect SUV.

To go back to the purpose this thread was started, the question was asked which is the perfect SUV.
The criteria was simple
1. Comfortable - Lots of not so perfect SUVs can do this
2. Below 10L - We omit most capable stuff
3. Decent(if not great) on road handling - Ok, most of these below 10L are okay in a straight line
4. Medium off road capabilities - This is where both safari and scorpio bite the dust. Reason is weight of safari, and absense of diff locks or limited slip mechanism in scorpio.

Please not that driving in dirt or shallow sand is not offroading. I have done such dirt trail driving in my indica. WRC cars do heavy mud and slush driving with just 2WD models. Off road means no road.
For example a wet field. You have GC, but unless all 4 wheels get traction you don't go anywhere.
Another example is thick sludge where you sink in.


GV costs 16L+ so the cost factor throws it out of the window.
Below 10L the only vehicles which can do serious off roading are the trax gypsy and the Mahindra jeeps.
But sadly these vehicles are a pain to drive and are strictly for part time use.

So what could be the perfect offroader, can it even exist.
The answer is yes.
A Mahindra scorpio with diff locks or LSD will become twice as capable as its now.
A Tata TL 4x4 with a 2.2L or 3.0 DICOR engine will be capable because you shed a lot of weight
A gypsy with coil springs at the rear along with a proper rear seat will be a great off roader

In the US you can get an offroader for the price of a mid size car(15,000$).
The 15000$ verna costs 8L in India.I guess its not too difficult to get a 10L offroader.

But market is not sentiment driven but business sense driven. The most offroading the average safari will do in its entire life will be to go off the shoulder on the national highway to cut through a traffic jam.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:27   #187
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OK, Please Forgive Me !!,

My uncle back home drives one and simply adores it.

Please add in the appropriate category.(which I did mention)


Cheers
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Old 22nd November 2007, 17:10   #188
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anju ,

why not tuscon ,crv and gv an suv.suv stands for sports utility vehicle i believe.suv has to have an element of sports in it and i believe all the above vehicles have that along with other qualities of an suv.

ram
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Old 22nd November 2007, 17:23   #189
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Oh well, what's in a name? Especially when the term SUV has so many interpretations. I am just happy I have a car I can off-road with, call it what you want.

Should the perfect SUV be a 4WD? If yes, that eliminates all 2WD variants.
Should the perfect SUV be able to offroad? If yes, that eliminates any 4x4 without diff locks.
Should the perfect SUV be below 10L on road? If yes, we are left only with desi stuff like Gypsy, Gurkha.
Should the perfect SUV have creature comforts? If yes, that leaves nothing.

There you go, there is no perfect SUV in India. If you push it 11L limit, then you have the Safari EX 4x4. Now we know why Safari is the most wanted SUV on Team-BHP.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 17:29   #190
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If you move to up north, the Safari EX 4x4 will cost 10L
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Old 22nd November 2007, 18:30   #191
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And if you move to Kerala the EX 4x4 is about 9.5 lakhs
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Old 22nd November 2007, 18:32   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

Yeah, that's a sorry classification. Every reviewer puts it otherwise. Even hardcore 4x4 reviewers like this: 4X4REVIEW.COM - 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara XSport
Yes. Grand Vitara is recognised more for it's off-roading, camping, recreational value proposition than on-road use. Something even CR-V can not do.

And on a sidenote, the GV (even with the detuned 2.0 L 119.5 BHP engine sold here) is faster (0 to 100 sec) than the Pajero sold here!!!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 18:33   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The most offroading the average safari will do in its entire life will be to go off the shoulder on the national highway to cut through a traffic jam.
.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 18:52   #194
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If Scorpio made it to your first list 'to some extent', then Safari should also have been included; or it doesn't figure at all? If not, what are your reasons?

Secondly, you didn't consider a Pajero or a Prado.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anju View Post
My take on Perfect SUV in India(by classic definitition of SUV).

1.Toyota Land Cruiser.
2.Mitsubishi Montero.
3.Ford Endeavor.
4.Mahindra Scorpio(to some extent).

I think following cars are called Crossovers and not SUVs.
1.Honda CR-V
2.Suzuki Grand Vitara
3.Hyundai Tuscan.

These are really meant for carrying large family which exibits more car like features than the off road beast charectors like SUVs.


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Old 22nd November 2007, 19:02   #195
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Ok on a scale of 10 can you list out points that a SUV according to you can do that a Scorpio or a Safari can't?

Thus we can know the disparity between a true-blue SUV and the others. Please keep in mind that while comparing take into account the 4WD models of Safari & Scorpio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
SUV stands for Sports Utility Vehicle. What kind of sports utility jobs can vehicles like Innova, Scorpio, Safari do?
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