Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th May 2006, 08:55   #46
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 569
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
Nope; it's gonna be priced between 28.5-30 lacs, as per reliable sources. But there are some rumours of some duty cuts on certain areas, so it COULD be cheaper.

The new Vitara is a good option, but if people from Maruti are to be believed, then the Indian version is going to be petrol only- no diesel options.

It would have been great if Honda came up with the 2.2 diesel CR-V, but that's a long shot. For one, Honda doesn't have any plans to launch it soon; it's concentrating on the Civic, new Accord (both diesel and petrol) and of course, the B+ segment hatch.

And yes, the rumours are true. Terracan has stopped production about 6 months ago. Checked it out myself a long time back. A few are still available from the last batch of imports, but that's it. It would have been THE SUV to have, if it was priced around 18 lacs, but sadly..

The Safari is a great budget SUV, but it still doesn't have that "upmarket" feel. Quality of plastics are disappointing, and the car still doesn't have that "solid" feeling that the Endy (which, is outdated now) gives. But still, the Safari is the only true SUV for guys on a budget; and that's a good thing.

The Subaru Forrester is a great stationwagon. That's it. It's just about as big as the Tata Estate, or the Palio Adventure. From no perspective can it be called a proper SUV. But it drives like hell, great AWD system, yada,yada....And that 4wd lever takes a li'l getting used to; the lever travels in a straight line, is placed behind the handbrake, and has just 2 positions; 4H and 4L; but everything is forgiven once you open those frameless doors. As a secondhand buy, it's great. But it's not a proper/practical SUV, in the purest sense of the term.

Like I said; the best SUV for this side of 20 lacs if bought THIS year; the 2.8 Pajero. For next year, it would be a close call between the new Endy, GM's quasi-SUV or the new Safari, and/or Fortuner, if launched as per plans...
Thanks.. Nice summary of what we can expect this year and the one following..
rangaraj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2006, 09:27   #47
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Because it is. Its almost as bad as the old scorpio and worse than the current one. When you see whats available here, it may seem to be okay, compare that with the similar priced SuVs all around the globe, its way way down.

An ideal Suv would be with the character of the Safari with the handling of Innova
I don't know how you arrive at this conclusion. I have driven the old Scorpio extensively. Ditto for the Tata Sierra, the Qualis, and the Bolero. I have been driving (and off-roading in) Steeroid's Dicor for close to 1500 km now, and have come away pretty impressed. It is the best combination of true comfort, handling, ground clearance, and off-road ability I have seen so far. With the exception of better tyres, the car (?) is stock, and yet it begs to be driven hard. Well, harder than the Scorpio.

If you were to rationalise Indian car prices wrt excise etc, the Dicor would cost something like 5-6 lakhs. Thats about USD 13000. I doubt you could find anything better for that price.

I have not driven the Innova or the new Scorpio, so I can't really comment on their handling.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2006, 10:24   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 257 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
Like I said; the best SUV for this side of 20 lacs if bought THIS year; the 2.8 Pajero. For next year, it would be a close call between the new Endy, GM's quasi-SUV or the new Safari, and/or Fortuner, if launched as per plans...
And, not to forget, the Outlander (if it comes with a diesel powerplant) and (hopefully), the Captiva!
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 09:12   #49
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 960
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jraj
exactly;as this one is about SUV's i thought of sharing this.My friend in Detroit,had leased out a Jeep Liberty Sports 2006 model for 4500USD for 2 years\24000miles.That monster has 3.7ltr engine,and delivers 210bhp.has got sunroof,16" alloys etc......how is it possible..i just dont understand this logic at all.....anyone can throw some light on this?
I consider this as a complex part of our economy. I'll give u an example. In Canada a can of Coke in a vending machine costs 1.75$ which will be about 70 Rs. acc. to current exchange rates. But ideally it should be equal to 1.75*10=17.5 Rs. which is close to what you pay in India. So in that way the 10 Indian Rupees should make a Canadian Dollar whereas in reality it is about 40. This is because of the weakness of our economy and our currency rates (export, import etc.).
So ideally your friend paid only about 50000 Rs. for the lease acc. to my calculations but acc. to the currency rates you'll have to multiply 4500 by about 45 Rs. This is what makes most of the difference between locally produced and imported cars. If it was locally produced, we would be dealing with Rupees all the time and keeping the profit margin same, the cost would have been much lower. It'll also depend on the no. of units sold since they can keep the profit margin lower if they can sell more.
sujaylahiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 09:23   #50
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 960
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
- User selectable 4x4 option (not a sissy all wheel drive)
Why do u call AWD a sissy? Some of the best SUVs in the world (X5, Cayenne etc.) have AWD in them. Their handling will be unmatched which is really important for an SUV and they have some of the best traction control systems in the world. Not to forget Subaru's world famous AWD.
If you really want to go off-roading, then 4WD would be important but for that we have Jeeps, FJ Cruisers and Range Rovers (or even Gypsys). I think an AWD is more suited for an SUV than 4WD.
Even the king of bling Cadillac Escalade has AWD as an upgrade from RWD.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 29th May 2006 at 09:28.
sujaylahiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 09:44   #51
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,709
Thanked: 89,162 Times
Default

Quote:
Why do u call AWD a sissy? Some of the best SUVs in the world (X5, Cayenne etc.) have AWD in them.
Correct. But I want a true off-roader, or something atleast close. The X5 aint one.

GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 11:43   #52
BHPian
 
ranjan united's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Windsor, Canada... But still a Bombay-Boy at heart !!!
Posts: 409
Thanked: 2 Times
Lightbulb

well GTO, i went through your list and it seems what you want isn't a SUV, but a MUV. X5, Cayenne Turbo, and the Nissan Murano are the best SUV's in the North American market right now (the nissan murano's sales are so high, i'm seeing them everywhere!) they arent off-roaders, but they are damn fine SUV's. Only thing i knw that does well off-road is the Land-Rover Discovery, which is classified in the UK as a 'MUV' (apparently anything that goes off-road automatically becomes a MUV in the UK, US, Japan, Germany and Canada). I dunno about diesel, but i feel both the Land-Rover Discovery and the Range Rover can do very well in India as SUVs, i.e. if ppl are willing to shell out what they are worth. also, the Jeep Liberty is also awesome. that too can do very well in India. though i doubt u'll get common rail on all, if any, of these models.
ranjan united is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 12:14   #53
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,054
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Here's why I think Pajero 2.8 fits the bill:

[quote=GTO]

To me, the perfect SUV would have the following:

- Turbo-diesel CRDi engine
Ok not CRDi, but a damn good, proven 2.8 litre turbo diesel

- Modern "butch" looks and chassis design
Looks pretty butch to me. Also has the body on chassis design instead of the newer, pansier monoque

- Seating for 6 - 7 passengers
Should be able to do the job

- User selectable 4x4 option (not a sissy all wheel drive)
Got 4WD and more importantly, it can actually go offroad without breaking something

- Good performance and handling (by SUV standards)
Proven "real" SUV that will bitchslap most contenders

- Goodies such as leather, sunroof etc.
Take your new SUV to Milan Subway

- Price anywhere between 12 - 16 lacs.
18 lakhs, but still a way better option than any of the sissy SUVs

GTO
quote]

The only downside is that you could consider the Pajero 2.8 to be outdated. But frankly IMO, it is still leagues ahead in terms of being an actual SUV package, and there is no other choice in the price bracket.
Boom Shiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2006, 23:13   #54
BHPian
 
ranjan united's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Windsor, Canada... But still a Bombay-Boy at heart !!!
Posts: 409
Thanked: 2 Times
Cool

Are we people in Bombay still obsessing about the Pajero, a SUV that is considered 'CRAP' in every other country outside India ?? Nissan Murano; now that thing has got butch looks, is cheap, powerful (3.5L DOHC V6) , and can go off-road, all-wheel drive, traction control, abs and more torque than the pajero can even dream off.
btw, are mitsubishi selling Pajeros in India, coz if they are, man they are ripping us off. If Nissan starts importing the Murano, it'll cost the same (+/- 1 lakh) as the Pajero.
ranjan united is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2006, 19:28   #55
Senior - BHPian
 
veyron1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,426
Thanked: 37 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjan united
Are we people in Bombay still obsessing about the Pajero, a SUV that is considered 'CRAP' in every other country outside India ?? Nissan Murano; now that thing has got butch looks, is cheap, powerful (3.5L DOHC V6) , and can go off-road, all-wheel drive, traction control, abs and more torque than the pajero can even dream off.
btw, are mitsubishi selling Pajeros in India, coz if they are, man they are ripping us off. If Nissan starts importing the Murano, it'll cost the same (+/- 1 lakh) as the Pajero.
Well, the Pajero might be "crap" to people who do not appreciate true SUV's, but here in India, it serves all that is required of it to a "T".

As for the Murano, just look at how expensive the X-trail is. Considering that the Murano comes only as a petrol, and is priced at about U.S. $29 K base, (which works out to about 30 lacs on-road; more than twice that of the Pajero, and as much as the Montero-which is more VFM at that price) I don't think Nissan will ever make the mistake of launching it in India. If it did, it could be a bigger flop than the Toyota Prado petrol.

Isn't THIS the Murano...

http://www.internetautoguide.com/car...272/index.html

The Murano, with a 3.5 DOHC V6 petrol, has about 334 nm of torque. The humble 2.8 IDI I4 diesel pajero has 292.3 nm. That's not "more torque than it can dream of". And yeah, just for reference; the equally-priced in India Montero, (when launched) has it's torque rated at 373 nm...
I'm not a Mitsu fanatic, nor am I justifying HM's pricing strategies. It's just a matter of availability; no other SUV in the Pajero's price category is as capable, that's it. Just stating the facts.
veyron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2006, 21:15   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Because it is. Its almost as bad as the old scorpio and worse than the current one.
Missed this one. I beg to disagree, tsk. If you think the Dicor's handling is BAD, you have either not driven one or have been reading too many automags.

I won't say its 'good' because there is scope for improvement, but please don't compare it to the Scorp - old, new or any future version. Its too square to do anything properly - they need a new platform. I could've explained this graphically if you'd come to Goa - Kart #3 is the Scorp, SWB, square, spinning @ every turn and usually heading out of the turn backside-first. Kart #6 was the Safari, LWB, a bit reluctant into fast corners, but drifting gracefully sideways (opposite lock, but frontside first) if you convince it to go for it.

I don't know about others, but I chuck my Safari around all the time. Its only weakness is fast twisties, but which SUV is meant to be doing that? Anyway, Psycho will hopefully do something about that too.

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th May 2006 at 21:25.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2006, 21:56   #57
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 11 Times
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjan united
Nissan Murano; now that thing has got butch looks, is cheap, powerful (3.5L DOHC V6) , and can go off-road, all-wheel drive, traction control, abs and more torque than the pajero can even dream off.
I am not sure about the comparison between a pajero and the Murano, but having driven a Murano while in the USA, i can vouch for its butch looks and off-roading capabilities.. especially during the winter.. The ground clearance actually makes this a very capable off-roader..

Wishing that the Murano is available with a turbo-diesel CRDI with 22+ kmpl.. and in between 10-12 Lacs.. I would be all for it, except that it wouldn't have much luggage space in it that you need for a family of 6 people travelling long distances..
man23ish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2006, 22:00   #58
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

The Nissan Murano and our very own Tempo Trax Gurkha and Judo are the ones that come foremost to my mind..

Check out the following link..

http://www.force4x4.com/welcome.html

The owner of the website is a TBHPian himself..

Manish
man23ish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2006, 23:41   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
I don't know about others, but I chuck my Safari around all the time. Its only weakness is fast twisties, but which SUV is meant to be doing that? Anyway, Psycho will hopefully do something about that too.
Well, I was surprised to hear you describe the mammoth as "chuckable". But it handles pretty well. Poor Psycho, I think he needs a magic wand.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2006, 01:53   #60
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,641 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Missed this one. I beg to disagree, tsk. If you think the Dicor's handling is BAD, you have either not driven one or have been reading too many automags.

I won't say its 'good' because there is scope for improvement, but please don't compare it to the Scorp - old, new or any future version. Its too square to do anything properly - they need a new platform. I could've explained this graphically if you'd come to Goa - Kart #3 is the Scorp, SWB, square, spinning @ every turn and usually heading out of the turn backside-first. Kart #6 was the Safari, LWB, a bit reluctant into fast corners, but drifting gracefully sideways (opposite lock, but frontside first) if you convince it to go for it.

I don't know about others, but I chuck my Safari around all the time. Its only weakness is fast twisties, but which SUV is meant to be doing that? Anyway, Psycho will hopefully do something about that too.
I was comparing it with the innova. Hopefully the new safari will be up there, but the short test drive I took of the DICOR, its not too confidence inspiring. Of course the stablity on highway is par excellence but on twisties the innova will run rings around the DICOR. And its understandable. The DICOR is 10 year old design and innova is a new kid on the block. If they dont have too much quality issues with the Nov-dec 2.2ltr, 142 bhp edition, the X2 will be a winner.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate GTO The Indian Car Scene 644 23rd October 2017 23:03
A real dilemma New Big Sedan + Old SUV or New SUV + new small sedan adithyav What Car? 32 5th August 2009 07:32
The Perfect Launch During a Drag Race normally_crazy Technical Stuff 34 3rd March 2008 04:01
Why not the VIOS(The Perfect NHC Beater) S600BENZ The International Automotive Scene 17 31st January 2005 08:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:59.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks