Automatic Transmission v/s Manual - Page 10 - Team-BHP

sgiitk · 10th February 2009, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I think Vasudev's remark must be appropriate. I have driven a number of automatics, and have never observed the engine speed to drop to idling when the accelerator is released. There is always some engine braking, just as there is some, albeit not a lot, when driving a manual in 5th gear.

I can vouch that both my Santro (2003-) and the earlier Zen (1999-2003) never exhibited a modicum of engine braking. It is possible that the idle is kept higher by the ECU but definitely the wheels are not connected to the engine! The Zen (carb) definitely used to drop to idle. As neither car had tachos and automatics on overrun are not exactly the quietest beasts I would not like to comment further.

With almost 40 years of driving experience I think I should know.

vasudeva · 10th February 2009, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I think Vasudev's remark must be appropriate. I have driven a number of automatics, and have never observed the engine speed to drop to idling when the accelerator is released. There is always some engine braking, just as there is some, albeit not a lot, when driving a manual in 5th gear.

I perhaps did not make the remark, but I agree with this now. In my Corolla AT, when I get off the accelerator, the deceleration is at a pretty low rate, and I can judge when to apply the brakes (to stop) or to press the accelerator again. Another good thing in an AT: the engine never stops, not in stop and go, and not on an ascent (like in mall parkings). In a manual, at constant shifting in low gears, there are jerks and a misstep can cause the car to jerk and engine to stop. Then, engine needs to be cranked up again through ignition switch.

StarScream · 10th February 2009, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Owning a Santro Auto I should know? I had to change the front pads at 22,500kma couple of months ago! Unless they have upgraded in the past three years, which I do not think they have.

Well, if the yardstick is owning the car then I should know what Im talking about as well. I own a 07 Santro AT.

If you read my earlier post, I didn't say it definitely has upgraded brakes. All I said was that I was told by a service advisor at HMP Delhi when I had gone to get the car fixed, that it had more powerful brakes than the manual. Now, there is the definite possibility that the service advisor had no idea what he was talking about. At the time, I didn't bother checking further.

manim · 10th February 2009, 17:34

I have driven a lot on ghat roads (Ooty), and I never felt anything missing when driving an Civic-AT. Maybe it is because of its advertised 'Grade-Logic control'. I was initially apprehensive about coming down the mountains in steep slopes, but now glad I had bought an AT. I never have to use the paddle-shift, all was done in regular D-mode.

I get stress-free driving over a long period (nine hours non stop) twice a month. There are times on the new four-lane highway where I have this devilish urge to have a manual so that I can overtake like hell, but I subdue this in the interests of safety and saving fuel. (any way I am getting old! and not as young as when I owned a OHC 1.5 manual earlier).

The conclusion: I will always buy only an AT in my future

Sampai · 25th April 2009, 18:45

I have tried my hands on Auto, didn't really like it. It felt like you have no control over the car.

Thad E Ginathom · 25th April 2009, 19:25

You do need to give it a chance, and it might grow on you, but I can understand it feeling strange at first, and there are always going to be people who just never like it.

So manual gearbox is going to be available for a while yet

manim · 25th April 2009, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sampai

I have tried my hands on Auto, didn't really like it. It felt like you have no control over the car.

If you had taken just a test drive or an one-day drive, you might not fully understand an AT.
It took me more than six months to learn to appreciate it (Civic-AT). After having driven only manuals for 23 years, I thought I will try AT in my life. Since Civic has paddle-shifts, I can always decide when to change gears if necessary. (Also the fact that I am getting older and stress-free driving is more important to me now than perfomance!).

Believe me, the paddle-shift mode is nearly unnecessary!
I believe modern AT's are very advanced with lot of computer control behind the scenes. (Civic has drive-by-wire throttle).
After you master it, you can change to the exact gear you want magically with the correct pressure from your right foot. On very long drives (I regularly drive 8 to 10 hours continuously), you need not care a damn which gear the car is in or in changing gears like an automaton! (This relieves you of both physical and mental stress).

It is only in special circumstances, like when you want to drive aggressively on the highways or when you drive through very bad roads, or through slush/mud that you might need the paddle shift for exact control.

And the Indian thinking that FE takes a beating is false in modern AT. (I can extract 16 kmpl on highways when I hypermile).

conclusion: I am glad that I got an AT rather than a manual!

Shan2nu · 25th April 2009, 22:42

From a performance point of view the Civic A/T sucks big time. The shifts take such a long time and it doesn't revv match quick enough when you downshift.

Prob the only form of A/T i would prefer is the DSG (with paddle shifters). It works on the raod as well as on track.

I hope all A/T cars in the future came with similar technology.

YouTube - Fifth gear DSG review

Shan2nu

ImmortalZ · 27th April 2009, 10:24

We do have that car here in sedan form - the Jetta DSG. Too bad it costs 17L

And a diesel 1.9PD mated to the excellent gearbox. What a shame.

Shan2nu · 27th April 2009, 12:00

Quote:

We do have that car here in sedan form - the Jetta DSG. Too bad it costs 17L

But does it come with paddle shifters? Coz the website just says 6 speed automatic DSG.

http://www.volkswagen.co.in/etc/medi...2021.07.08.pdf

Shan2nu

Shan2nu · 27th April 2009, 12:03

Heres a good comparison video from Best Motoring.

YouTube - Drift King Test Golf GTI (DSG vs 6spd Manual)

Fifth gear -

YouTube - Fifth Gear - Audi TT DSG v Audi TT manual Shoot-Out

Shan2nu

Sahil · 27th April 2009, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

But does it come with paddle shifters? Coz the website just says 6 speed automatic DSG.

http://www.volkswagen.co.in/etc/medi...2021.07.08.pdf

Shan2nu

Yes it does. And they shift superrrrrr quick !

Samurai · 27th April 2009, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sampai

I have tried my hands on Auto, didn't really like it. It felt like you have no control over the car.

I can't make that decision based on a short test drive. I have driven excess of 1 lakh Kms on automatics and find it perfectly under control.

Thad E Ginathom · 27th April 2009, 13:39

What is the big deal over paddle shifts? Are they really that much greater than moving the left hand to the lever?

Sampai · 27th April 2009, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

I can't make that decision based on a short test drive. I have driven excess of 1 lakh Kms on automatics and find it perfectly under control.

Maybe I tested it for a day or so, but I still would stand by stick shift. That's just me Ole fashion I guess...

10th February 2009, 17:34	#139 (permalink)
manim BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Tuticorin Posts: 99	AT on mountains I have driven a lot on ghat roads (Ooty), and I never felt anything missing when driving an Civic-AT. Maybe it is because of its advertised 'Grade-Logic control'. I was initially apprehensive about coming down the mountains in steep slopes, but now glad I had bought an AT. I never have to use the paddle-shift, all was done in regular D-mode. I get stress-free driving over a long period (nine hours non stop) twice a month. There are times on the new four-lane highway where I have this devilish urge to have a manual so that I can overtake like hell, but I subdue this in the interests of safety and saving fuel. (any way I am getting old! and not as young as when I owned a OHC 1.5 manual earlier). The conclusion: I will always buy only an AT in my future

27th April 2009, 10:24	#144 (permalink)
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,729 View My Garage	We do have that car here in sedan form - the Jetta DSG. Too bad it costs 17L And a diesel 1.9PD mated to the excellent gearbox. What a shame. __________________ Honda - Providing the least Kilo per Lakh since 1948.

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25th April 2009, 18:45	#140 (permalink)
Sampai Newbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kolkata Posts: 10	I have tried my hands on Auto, didn't really like it. It felt like you have no control over the car.

25th April 2009, 19:25	#141 (permalink)
Thad E Ginathom Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,861	You do need to give it a chance, and it might grow on you, but I can understand it feeling strange at first, and there are always going to be people who just never like it. So manual gearbox is going to be available for a while yet

27th April 2009, 13:39	#149 (permalink)
Thad E Ginathom Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,861	What is the big deal over paddle shifts? Are they really that much greater than moving the left hand to the lever?