Automatic Transmission v/s Manual

[rutvij]

Originally Posted by entropy

I get about 8 KMPL now on i10-Asta. Pure city driving, short commutes. Zero rupees spent on maint so far (2300 Km done).

Thanks a lot for your reply. I feel that 8 kmpl is down 33% if one safely assumes that manual gives 12 kmpl. And that is too much of sacrifice for AT. I feel it should increase after proper running in.

I recently visited Sharma Hyundai in Ahmedabad to inquire about i10 kappa AT. The sales guy was insisting to go for MT instead on AT. His reason was that with new gear box of i10 and also kappa engine, MT i10 is as good as AT. As long as u r not physically disabled there is no point in going for AT!. (May be he was trying to clear his stocks rather than order AT for me and invest more)

I also inquired about Santro AT and he told me that they have discontinued it after launching of i10 AT which is contrary to posts made in this forum.

[CtrlAltDel]

Originally Posted by rutvij

As long as u r not physically disabled there is no point in going for AT!

who made him a salesman???!!!!!!

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by rutvij

As long as u r not physically disabled there is no point in going for AT!.

That would mean nearly all Americans!!!. Right now, most are not even though they may be financially challenged.

[jat]

Basically in India, the choice of automatics is very limited. Second the cost of automatic means, people can upgrade to the next level car witht the same cost or little addition. These two are the main factors for automatics being not popular here.

In USA or advanced countries, the car cost to the income ratio is much less than India and most of the car is for individual. Whereas in India, the major mode of transport is bike and that too becomes a family carrier. So you can imagine what people will look for and they always find something better in manual for the same price in auto or with a little more money.

There are some countries where the automatics are popular because people don't know how to drive manual or are scared or driving manual

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by jat

There are some countries where the automatics are popular because people don't know how to drive manual or are scared or driving manual

That is a very extrapolative statement. You learn to drive what is available, and as I can attest, a driver of a manual can learn to drive an AT in 2 mins. and vice-versa. I drove a manual for 160,000 kms, test drove an AT and within 1-2 mins. got used to it. Even now, I do drive my old manual car once in a while, and I do not feel scared or incapable at all.

[AlokSriva]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

That is a very extrapolative statement. You learn to drive what is available, and as I can attest, a driver of a manual can learn to drive an AT in 2 mins. and vice-versa. I drove a manual for 160,000 kms, test drove an AT and within 1-2 mins. got used to it. Even now, I do drive my old manual car once in a while, and I do not feel scared or incapable at all.

Now this would be an extrapolative statement too IMHO. Switching from manual to auto tranny is definitely not a 2 min task - not for a driver who has never drove a manual all his life.

[entropy]

Originally Posted by rutvij

Thanks a lot for your reply. I feel that 8 kmpl is down 33% if one safely assumes that manual gives 12 kmpl. And that is too much of sacrifice for AT. I feel it should increase after proper running in.

As I have noted elsewhere, since my overall running is quite low in this car it hardly matters. In fact this is the only AT option in India if one wants a decent small car that is easy to drive/park in small crowded streets of our cities. I'm enjoying this car more than other larger cars I have for its sheer practicality.

[greenhorn]

for most Indians, the cost:complexity:benefit ratio is just not worth it. And the primitive auto boxes available at the lower price points to the majority of buyers till now hasn't helped matters so far.

And in India, you need to be in total control of your car when dodging traffic. from what I've read about auto boxes, they tend to have a mind of their own which you need to understand before you can use them fully. I'd rather pay less and retain full control of my car thanks (paddle shifter and other auto boxes with manual gear selection an exception)
and it commits the cardinal sin of reducing FE.
and as everywhere else, there is a perception that auto boxes are for the weak/lazy , and a rich person/American's thing

[amit]

Originally Posted by raveen_2023

Major reasons for default manual trannys in india...

The main reason is cost diffrential and the avaliablity of cheap labour in India. Difference between City S M/T and A/T is almost Rs.73,000. In India you can hire a driver for about Rs.5-6000 pm for City segment cars. That's almost 12 months of free driver services. Add to that other advantages like you no longer have to bother with even the steering, braking etc and the biggest advantage is it takes off the parking woes.

In North America A/T = A/T + owner driven.

In India A/T = M/T + Driver.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by AlokSriva

Now this would be an extrapolative statement too IMHO. Switching from manual to auto tranny is definitely not a 2 min task - not for a driver who has never drove a manual all his life.

What would that mean. Perhaps you meant for a `driver who has never drove (driven) an auto (instead of manual) all his life'. I did not drive an AT for 160,000kms and it took me not more than 2 mins and 1-2 kms to get the hang for it. A person who drives (as opposed to one who is learning) should have no problem at all switching between the two.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

And in India, you need to be in total control of your car when dodging traffic. from what I've read about auto boxes, they tend to have a mind of their own which you need to understand before you can use them fully.

Mind of their own???. You may not like AT and that is fair, but it is not fair to say ATs are some `out of control' Frankenstein.

[greenhorn]

i meant the fine control of the upshifts and downshifts. sometime when you really need to accelerate to cut off that autorikshaw thats trying to get in front of you, it may stay in higher gear. and maybe the reverse might also happen.
again, this is from what i've read, and not from my personal experience

[Dippy]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

i meant the fine control of the upshifts and downshifts. sometime when you really need to accelerate to cut off that autorikshaw thats trying to get in front of you, it may stay in higher gear. and maybe the reverse might also happen.
again, this is from what i've read, and not from my personal experience

For that you have the kick down feature in the AT box which is used for overtaking. Push the accel pedal hard and your tranny shifts down a gear to give you the power to overtake and go faster( similar to downshifting manually in an MT)

Gone are the days when ATs were sluggish and didnt have much power like their counterparts. Drive a supercharged Mercedes AMG with 500 horses which is AT and then see.

[CtrlAltDel]

Originally Posted by AlokSriva

Now this would be an extrapolative statement too IMHO. Switching from manual to auto tranny is definitely not a 2 min task - not for a driver who has never drove a manual all his life.

i have seen firangs who have driven automatics for ages fumble with the manual box when trying out an Indian car.

in countries that have separate licenses for automatics and manuals, people with automatic licenses are not allowed to drive manuals, but people with license for manual cars can drive automatics.

[ImmortalZ]

From experience, my Civic shifts according to the following factors:

1) How far the A pedal is pressed. Farther it is pressed, more the car revs before an upshift. Press to the floor, instant downshift to the lowest possible gear without redlining the engine and shifts at redline as the car accelerates. AKA Kickdown.

2) How fast you change the pedal position. Press quickly and you get tremendous acceleration to a point after which it goes to cruise. Release quickly and brake assist kicks in. I haven't mastered this.

3) Grade Logic Control - Holds gears if you are in an incline or decline. No hunting for gears or loss of engine braking. After a certain RPM in every gear, the torque converter locks (i.e, no slippage - like a fully released clutch pedal of a manual). This is the point of maximum mileage. Contrary to manuals, driving in the lowest RPM in a particular gear does not give you maximum mileage - you have to be driving in the lowest RPM AFTER gear lock. Still not mastered this.

4) S Mode - Amps up everything a couple of notches. Extreme fun to drive in this mode, both in paddle shift and fully auto modes.

Combination of #1 and #2 controls speed and acceleration together. Getting it down is not a huge task though - after a while it becomes instinctual, just like steering.

greenie, one of these days we must meet. I shall let you take my car for a spin and experience the auto 'box and see how you like it.