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Old 24th June 2013, 14:49   #46
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

A look at the list of the missing features disappoint when the benefit in lieu is a meagre 3.5 lakhs. How much is Audi otherwise charging for the Quattro ,the automatic transmission and the sunroof leave aside the xenons and other gadgetry?

For 4x4 system or for an automatic transmission we have been happily paying 10% each in indian market. An upgrade from a corporate 3 series/X1 headlamps to the ones of higher models will set you back by about 3 lakhs, similar shall be the case with Audi.

The point is when they offer features in a new higher placed model, they do so with their hefty margins in mind and when these manufacturers have to launch a lower model with lesser features , they hardly pass on the cost of production reduced thus.

This apart , I laud the efforts made by Audi India.
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Old 24th June 2013, 14:59   #47
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

While stripping off features to make the corporate edition sounds fine to me, putting in the detuned engine makes no sense. It will be akin to diluting the brand. IMO engine, gearbox and chasis/suspension should be left unaltered. It is what makes a brand. Not the features it has got. Even Hyundai can make a car with features similar to Mercedees/Audi but it cant make engines like the Germans, It cant tune the suspensions like them. Stripping of features does not dilute a brand. BMW makes stripped out CSLs and when did that hurt the brand. It is not what you put but how you market.
On a different note however, reducing the price of a car does to some extent reduce its brand value as it looses its exclusivity. That is what Audi should look into. Thats why a limited edition (corporate edition) should make more sense.

Last edited by oxyzen : 24th June 2013 at 15:00.
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Old 24th June 2013, 16:08   #48
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

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A look at the list of the missing features disappoint when the benefit in lieu is a meagre 3.5 lakhs. How much is Audi otherwise charging for the Quattro ,the automatic transmission and the sunroof leave aside the xenons and other gadgetry?

This apart , I laud the efforts made by Audi India.

The list of missing features is quite exhaustive and i am sure that if one adds more than two options, the price will come to the current base model price.

This apart, i feel that Audi has done a good thing by making a manual gearbox available in this segment
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Old 24th June 2013, 19:27   #49
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

This move shall be enlightening for all the luxury car manufacturers in India as they have been flooded with requests for manuals in possibly all the forums.

The numbers this Q3 Sport manages shall be indicative of the true percentage of enthusiasts in India as for my belief anybody would happily pay another 15% for all the qualities and strengths (features), the regular non sport model comes with
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Old 24th June 2013, 20:25   #50
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While stripping off features to make the corporate edition sounds fine to me, putting in the detuned engine makes no sense. It will be akin to diluting the brand. IMO engine, gearbox and chasis/suspension should be left unaltered. It is what makes a brand. Not the features it has got. Even Hyundai can make a car with features similar to Mercedees/Audi but it cant make engines like the Germans, It cant tune the suspensions like them.
Unfortunately Audi india would argue otherwise. They offer the same detuned 140bhp from jetta/laura in the A4. And it has worked wonders for them.

Audi has "understood" the Indian market well (that's what they say) and provides underpowered cars with lots of extra cosmetic features compared to competition.
You are bang on when you say this dilutes brand value. But thats whats petrol heads like us think. Lets face it, most Indian customers aren't petrol heads. They wanna show off their wealth and don't really care what's under the hood.

The Q3, Q5 use the same chassis and platform as the skoda yeti. The A6, Q5 (2.0) use the same engine as the passat. This list goes on and on.

That is Audi india for you. A glorified VW

But you cannot deny that they provide pretty much the best VFM in all their models. The kind of gadgets they offer , rear seat climate control, air suspension, on A6 is only available in BMW's 7 series and S class Merc. You gotta appreciate that about them.

Maybe that's why they're leading today.
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Old 25th June 2013, 00:31   #51
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

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Maybe that's why they're leading today.
You may be right but I cant agree to that.

Audi is leading because I think they look a lot better than the Mercs let alone BMW. You can not find a single Audi that looks worse than a BMW.

Mercedes seems to have lost its Mojo and the BMW is ruining its bull run with those stupid runflats. I know a few people who stayed away from the BMW just because of that. You are right Audi understands the Indian market better. And so does Maruti. 10 years down the line they may end up on the same page. Who knows.
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Old 25th June 2013, 08:18   #52
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Audi is leading because I think they look a lot better than the Mercs let alone BMW. You can not find a single Audi that looks worse than a BMW.

the BMW is ruining its bull run with those stupid runflats. I know a few people who stayed away from the BMW just because of that. You are right Audi understands the Indian market better. And so does Maruti. 10 years down the line they may end up on the same page. Who knows.
BMW has stayed on top till as recently as last quarter. They have managed to do so because they have retained their uniqueness aka sheer driving pleasure (50:50 weight distribution, heavier steering, powerful engine etc). You have certainly not driven the latest BMWs if your putting forth the run flat argument here. The 3rd gen run flats (in the new F30) are very soft compared to previous run flats. In any case run flats can be easily exchanged for a softer set of tires as soon as you drive out of the showroom. It wouldn't cost you anything as run flats are way more expensive than regular tires. Anybody who's not bought a BMW just for that reason sounds to me like he didn't deserve to buy one in the first place. As I mentioned above, the typical Indian customer wants to buy these cars to show off and doesn't care what's under the hood.

Its perhaps the only brand in india which has petrol heads' needs on priority over masses

The looks can be appreciated either way. Audis look more conventional and simpler compared to the flashier more flamboyant looking beemers. The 5 series looks far better than A6. And the A8 is the worst looking amongst its competition. And don't even get me started on the Q5. Only the Q7 and A7 are the really unique goodlooking ones. But then, that's a personal opinion.
Nobody can really put a finger on what has elevated Audi to no. 1 in sales. What I can say for sure is that this strategy, of having the cheapest offering in every category, has definitely helped their sales. And it's all thanks to underpowered VW Engines.
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Old 25th June 2013, 11:08   #53
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

I agree with Bluebeem. It seems that only BMW and perhaps Volvo are offering in India what they offer advanced markets. Yes, maybe they are limiting certain features on offer. But Audi and Mercedes on the other hand seem to offer the lowest 'car' tech, but higher 'gizmo' tech and then obviously they can afford to undercut BMW.

The 3rd gen RFTs are also very good in terms of ride but poor on grip as Karan has pointed out.

But then as others have stated, Indian consumer (not us petrolheads) is all about bling and show and since it is the chauffeur driving 90% of the time, they do not care about the 'car' tech. Just see the A class bookings with such pathetic engines to prove it.

This will go on till we 'advance', but that does not look likely for another 60 years. So in my view BMW will see only niche market share (especially since they appear to have discontinued BSI) if they continue like this. What they need to do is offer more options on their base models like 320d/320i 520d/520i, etc. ensure that the 1 series also has one of the basic engines but good bling options to satisfy the Indian auto consumer.
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Old 25th June 2013, 11:52   #54
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The looks can be appreciated either way. Audis look more conventional and simpler compared to the flashier more flamboyant looking beemers. The 5 series looks far better than A6. And the A8 is the worst looking amongst its competition. And don't even get me started on the Q5. Only the Q7 and A7 are the really unique goodlooking ones. But then, that's a personal opinion.
Its presence rather than good looks IMO. Have seen many non-enthusiasts prefer Audi rather than BMW just for the big grill upfront, along with those flamboyant LEDs. Its gives them better presence and more 'value' for money compared to the sharper (and smaller) kidney grills and angel eyes of the beemers.

As for 'car' tech and 'gadget' tech, half the market will not even bother to find differences among the models offered by the German trio.
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Old 25th June 2013, 12:17   #55
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Its presence rather than good looks IMO. Have seen many non-enthusiasts prefer Audi rather than BMW just for the big grill upfront, along with those flamboyant LEDs. Its gives them better presence and more 'value' for money compared to the sharper (and smaller) kidney grills and angel eyes of the beemers.

As for 'car' tech and 'gadget' tech, half the market will not even bother to find differences among the models offered by the German trio.
Agree. That's perhaps the only reason why people pay about 8-9 lacs more for the 520d which is exactly same as 320d luxury line. The only extras are front parking sensors, lumbar support, electronic hand brake, and electronically adjustable steering. It's criminal to pay 9 lacs extra for that.

Presence ! In other words more to show for your money
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Old 25th June 2013, 12:36   #56
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

I think it's a good move from Audi considering the market situation. They don't have an A Class competitor - and with the response that Mercedes claims it has got for the A class (400+ bookings). Audi has done the right thing.

Personally don't think it devalues the brand, the price vs the features cut is justified from an existing Q3 owner perspective. Audi wants the volume, and they have realised that the Indian customer is willing to play ball at a lower price point.

Most Indian customers would prefer the Q3 sport over the A class - it's an urban SUV, the hi end retails at almost 40 big ones. Enough said

Which brings me to the question that shouldn't Audi have launched the Q3 sport before the A class launch?
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Old 25th June 2013, 13:58   #57
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

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Anybody who's not bought a BMW just for that reason sounds to me like he didn't deserve to buy one in the first place.
In India where the road surfaces are less than perfect, tyre failures are common. Runflats are pretty expensive to maintain.

However it is not just runflats but also the lack of a spare tyre. Takes the peace of mind away just by thinking of a long drive. What if you are stranded in a desolate place with no major towns nearby.
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Old 25th June 2013, 14:21   #58
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Runflats are pretty expensive to maintain.

However it is not just runflats but also the lack of a spare tyre. Takes the peace of mind away just by thinking of a long drive. What if you are stranded in a desolate place with no major towns nearby.
Run flats cost the same to maintain as regular tires. They use the same punctures.

over and above that, BMW offer free replacement of tires if they're damaged/punctured within the first year.
The only difference is that run flats cannot be repaired if the puncture is in the side wall. In my more than a decade of driving, I have never ever had a sidewall puncture. Never even heard of one actually. It's a pretty rare thing. In that case too, you can buy a tube and reach your nearest city with ease.

As far as a spare goes, I agree with you. In a perfect world BMWs would have full sized spare tires so that there's complete peace of mind. But a space saver donut does the trick at the cost of some boot space. That's all. Still don't think anybody would decide against buying a BMW / jaguar just because of the missing spare especially when donuts are available. If they do, it would be criminal. Really.

Jaguars, A class Merc, BMWs all use space savers. It's not so much for cost saving but I believe to retain the perfect weight distribution and driving dynamics.
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Old 25th June 2013, 14:31   #59
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

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Run flats cost the same to maintain as regular tires. They use the same punctures.

over and above that, BMW offer free replacement of tires if they're damaged/punctured within the first year.
I'm sorry but this argument is not a very strong one. If your driving on our indian highways and you hit a small stone which is not easily visible or need to negotiate a very bad section of road very commonly found on our highways and you are unfortunate that your tyre gets a cut, what are you going to do?

Example, Moderator Ajmat hit a small stone invisible when driving to Goa resulting in the tyre being damaged. Without a spare what will you do? Your more than 250kms away from BMW Goa or BMW Bangalore.

A spare is invaluable on our roads. Coupled with the fact that RFT's have hopeless ride quality when compared to the same car without RFT.

And I am sort of one of the guys that is not even looking at a BMW because of ride comfort and lack of spare tyre.
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Old 25th June 2013, 14:44   #60
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Default Re: Is Audi readying a cut-price Q3?

Back to the Q3. Sure the pricing sounds competitive, but how well will the Q3 with a stick shift fare amongst the usual automatics that are widely preferred and accepted in the exclusive car market is another story. IFO wouldn't mind a sport hatchback with a stick shift, but if I am looking for a luxury quasi-SUV, I don't know if I would want one with a manual tranny!
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