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Old 22nd January 2015, 14:14   #661
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Default Re: 2014 Honda Jazz: Speculative reynder and details

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I guess there is no point in my debating further on this, as more data can't be provided. So let me re-iterate that - IMHO the cab-forward Jazz will come under fire from the Ertiga if it goes directly against it in terms of pricing. End of my arguments on this topic.
Tough to guess what human brain thinks!!.... :-)
I for one sitting here and choosing between Jazz OR Ertiga and I am definitely not
confused :-) Its finally the price that would decide which is a better VFM.

You are right... Ertiga being an Hatch in its definition (a large one at that) is a tough competitor if the pricing is wrong with the Jazz again!!
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Old 22nd January 2015, 15:12   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Instead of a counter argument - I present to you a sample database of BHP'ians who went for the Ertiga. Except for two or three ownership reviews (You are most welcome to google), most other BHP'ians purchased it after shortlisting premium hatchbacks, and even premium sedans!

I guess there is no point in my debating further on this, as more data can't be provided. So let me re-iterate that - IMHO the 'versatile' Jazz will come under fire from the Ertiga if it goes directly against it in terms of pricing, unless it has other tricks up it's sleeve. End of my arguments on this topic.


I hope so as well - but lack of body colour door handles and ORVMs, the old-school antenna on the base and mid variants, lack of rear headrests on base and mid variants (forget magic seats) etc point otherwise.
I love the debate and I find your argument quiet valid but not all think the same.

Reasons :

Jazz is smaller than ertiga and hence is easier to drive in city.

Honda badge plays a big part in comparison here (compare sales of city with ciaz).

Jazz is a hatch whereas Ertiga is considered an muv (a van?).

Jazz pulls more attention than ertiga does.

Why don't we have a poll and see how many votes Jazz gets against Ertiga?
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Old 22nd January 2015, 15:30   #663
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Elite i20 beats the Ertiga hands down in terms of several USPs - design, quality (Even the City is no match here!), features and even pricing - which starts 1L less than the Ertiga. Lets hope Honda matches the i20 pricing rather than Ertiga pricing.
Agreed on the quality and feature perspective. i20 is much better in build and features compared to Ertiga. The quality is even better than City. For pricing, the i20 Era is much lesser than Ertiga. But did you check the features?

-> No ABS and Airbags (i20 has 2 airbags only in Asta).
-> Black ORVMs and door handles.
-> No turn indicators on ORVM.
-> Ancient front antenna (All variants have the same which is similar to Jazz base and mid variant)
-> No parcel tray
-> Integrated rear seat headrest with no 60:40 split
-> No audio player
-> No front map lamp (seriously???)
-> No boot lamp
-> Manual windows in rear
-> No auto up / down for driver side window
-> Internally adjustable ORVM

I am pretty sure base model of Jazz will be more or less the same and pricing will be touching i20 pretty closely. So my point is starting price is just a gimmick. Both you and I know this. It is just to pull customers to the show-room. Aint it??? How manufacturers fool people boasting the features in top end and price of base model.

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However - coming to the Jazz. What is its USP? From comments above - it seems to be space and flexibility. Now that will come under serious fire from Ertiga.

True. And in which of these aspects - do you expect the Jazz to beat the Ertiga convincingly?
Agree to that. Ertiga will be an indirect competitor. But Jazz is sub 4m hatchback and Ertiga is a much longer MUV. The ease of driving and parking in city will be a major plus and the reason why premium hatchbacks are selling this well. The city drivability of i-DTEC is much better than the DDiS. Jazz will for sure have better looking interiors and features compared to Ertiga. Exclusivity of a new car + Honda badge (some might not agree, but lets agree, it is a huge plus among masses) are also big merits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Source of info please? Owners were complaining of rattles till October 2014. Which later batches are we talking about here? And were was this 'general feedback' shared?
I dont have a source in internet, but this was based on feedback of some of the members in this forum, other forums and from a couple of my friends (one owns a VX CVT and another a VX i-DTEC, both Oct / Nov models). My friends are very satisfied with the car and have not reported any niggles. May be its too early and it is a matter of time. But this was based on their feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
So you mean to say - Jazz will be priced 2.6L less than City. Will have better quality than City even though it shares the same parts, and will be screwed together better? Lets hope so then! The 2.6L again is an assumption - if it needs to go head-on against the Elite i20
You never know. Honda might decide to forego some profit and price it matching i20. Everyone was surprised with the pricing of City compared to Verna when it was launched late 2013. Quality wise I expect it to be similar to City and hope Honda has ironed out the quality issues based on the initial feedback from City.

Quote:
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Yes right. Its all assumptions only till the product finally hits the market. But we being chit-chatty enthusiasts, can't sit silent till then, can we?
Hahaha. True. We can never be silent. And thats why we are here in Team-BHP.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 16:40   #664
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

We, at Team-BHP, know that Jazz's primary selling point is space and magic seats. But how many people on the streets know about this?I did not untill 2 months ago. Seriously! Yeah, I know I wasn't in the market for a new car then. But i didn't know Jazz had so many advantages compared to some sedans even. There was not much hype about it since many didn't buy due to the high price. Do not forget in our country, word of mouth still plays a big role, if not the biggest, when it comes to buying the cars. And if Honda plans to reach the i20s target audience, marketing the Jazz is going to crucial along with the price.
Big part of the demographic for hatchbacks has graduated form i10 specific small cars to Premium hatchbacks range like i20. This includes a lot college kids, yuppies, small families living in metro cities and tier-2 cities.If Honda markets the car well(magic seats, space and reliable Vtec/Dtec engine) and prices it's well, it's going to be a sure winner.
Even if people feel the higher end variant is pricey, the demographic in question would rather go to a sedan or competition hatchbacks but not an Ertiga which is in a different altogether. Because the general public see Ertiga as an MPV while Jazz is only 'tagged' by a minority number of people( including some of us here)as MPV-ish looking when clearly it falls in premium hatchback segment. The moment someone compares Ertiga with a Jazz on the road, someone else is bound to say that it falls in the Mobilio/Evalia type of cars as that is the general imprint in their minds. So I feel Jazz will not be compared to the Ertiga though on paper the specs could be comparable.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 17:38   #665
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by raptor3624 View Post
We, at Team-BHP, know that Jazz's primary selling point is space and magic seats. But how many people on the streets know about this?I did not untill 2 months ago. Seriously! Yeah, I know I wasn't in the market for a new car then. But i didn't know Jazz had so many advantages compared to some sedans even. There was not much hype about it since many didn't buy due to the high price. Do not forget in our country, word of mouth still plays a big role, if not the biggest, when it comes to buying the cars. And if Honda plans to reach the i20s target audience, marketing the Jazz is going to crucial along with the price.
Big part of the demographic for hatchbacks has graduated form i10 specific small cars to Premium hatchbacks range like i20. This includes a lot college kids, yuppies, small families living in metro cities and tier-2 cities.If Honda markets the car well(magic seats, space and reliable Vtec/Dtec engine) and prices it's well, it's going to be a sure winner.
Even if people feel the higher end variant is pricey, the demographic in question would rather go to a sedan or competition hatchbacks but not an Ertiga which is in a different altogether.
I agree with you in parts here. Though I agree, Jazz will primarily be targeting the urban crowd, who are willing to pay a bit more to get premium brand and feel in their cars and might not need a boot. But in India, car buying trends are unique. I know people wanting to buying a Ritz finally buying a Beemer 3 series. So, people will compare this with the likes of the Ertiga or a sedan. We Indians are suckers for additional seats or Sedan's boot, even if we don't need them.

Honda will have work really hard to get the USPs of the vehicle out in the market properly, as people just don't know enough about the magic seats and the other practical parts. Till now, I still have friends in office who think Jazz is an over-priced car that was a flop. Honda needs to change this general perception if it wants to compete with the likes of Elite i20 or Swift/YRA.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 17:55   #666
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

The previous gen Jazz had an extremely stiff low speed ride, and a poor low end. I hope Honda has sorted these issues now.

The Jazz seems to be a much better proposition now with the added features. Just hoping, though I know it will not be the case, that Honda doesn't cut corners in the manufacturing and Quality department like it did with the City. The Jazz is a premium offering where the City isn't and I hope Honda realises that. Though, I doubt it'll be as well built as its predecessor.

Last edited by prakhar1998 : 22nd January 2015 at 17:57.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 19:03   #667
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Jazz is my favorite hatchback. It has amazed me with its space, styling and its super refined engine. Price was the only factor that drove the people away from it.
But this time, considering the fact that demand for premium hatches has increased, Honda will have a sure shot success if they price it competitively. They should also make it a bit more powerful, especially the low end which was one of the biggest disappointment for me. I expect a bit more fun to drive factor from a premium hatch of honda.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 20:54   #668
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

I have a silver Honda Jazz Select edition - May 2010 and a Ertiga silver ZDI - June 2013.

Jazz has done 39k kms and Ertiga has done close to 25k kms.

If I had to do a comparison

Jazz
Seats are more comfy
Far more smoother controls.
5 - 6 hour drive in Jazz, I've experienced lesser fatigue compared to Ertiga
Braking is far superior to Ertiga in terms of the quickness and the way in which the car comes to a halt.

Eritga
Upright seating position is a delight. Getting in and out is a breeze.
I've got Race Dynamics Dual Channel Digital tuning box (mine was the first to get the dual channel one). It was replaced last year with a 12 volt one. First one was a 5 volt one and drew power from the common rail.
Its a pleasure to drive in city and on the highways.
I changed all 5 tyres from 185*65 (Good year Duraplus) to 195*60 Michelin Energy XM2. Cost me Rs. 5900 per tyre.
Steering feels more free now after the tyre change.
Changing gears is a whole lot smoother compared to Jazz.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 07:50   #669
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by Burn_out View Post
But in India, car buying trends are unique. I know people wanting to buying a Ritz finally buying a Beemer 3 series.
How is that possible? Thats a difference of 35 lakh rupees! Don't tell me that banks give loan...
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Old 23rd January 2015, 08:49   #670
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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How is that possible? Thats a difference of 35 lakh rupees! Don't tell me that banks give loan...
/OT

A BHPian who wanted to buy a 20L car ended up with a 1+ cr W221 S Class.

That said, not all of them buy cars through loans. Anyways, this is off-topic. Letís stick to the thread.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 09:19   #671
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Waiting for this car. Need to buy another car in the family and I had shorlisted the i20 and new Jazz. But I was totally disappointed with the new City build quality. Its hard to believe Honda can dish out such poor quality on a 10 Lakhs + sedan. So Jazz interior quality and build cannot be better if not worse. And they say 100 BHP and don't know when all the 100 works.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 09:19   #672
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Default Re: 2014 Honda Jazz: Speculative reynder and details

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Instead of a counter argument - I present to you a sample database of BHP'ians who went for the Ertiga. Except for two or three ownership reviews (You are most welcome to google), most other BHP'ians purchased it after shortlisting premium hatchbacks, and even premium sedans!
We are all of the same DNA here. Simply putting it, we all love cars. And checking out new cars and rather all the cars in our budget is one of the most exciting thing to do in my book when I am out car shopping. That is the reason we all have so many cars on our list to begin with. But in the end there would be very very small number of people who will think an Ertiga will fit there needs instead of Jazz and vice versa. In that way, I started with a Ritz an ended up with a 320d. The 2 cars are miles apart, and rather displays my confusion and uncertainty.

Also somewhere in the last 2 pages, people have started associating the Jazz with only space and magic seats. But that is wrong. The Jazz is much more than just magic seats. The older version was. I hope the newer one will be no less. Premium hatchbacks are there for a reason having there own USP. In one word that is premiumness ( if that is even a valid word), luxury, more space than the regular hatches and yet small in dimensions and feel. The Jazz, I20, Polo TSI and all cater to that need and not just space.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 09:27   #673
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Just because some/few people have associated Jazz with space/practicality doesn't mean that's all Jazz has to offer. I am thinking of the sweet 1.5 iVtec
The name 'Jazz' sounds good, isn't it? How does 'Ertiga' sound? I am suffering from 'Ertiga'

Of course space isn't going to win you sales. If that's the case then Vista would be selling more in numbers than the Swift. Premium interiors, excellent design, Honda's reliability, superb A.S.S, a not too premium price will help to sell Jazz.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 09:38   #674
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I am thinking of the sweet 1.5 iVtec
Hope the news of the Punto TJet getting readied for a Q2 launch gives them the confidence to go ahead with the 1.5 RS with a manual gearbox.

Along with the GT TSi- That would be an interesting battle- three 100+ hp petrol hatches going head to head for the first time ever in our market.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 10:15   #675
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Hi Friends

As an existing owner of 2010 Dec Jazz which has done about 34K, this is what I have to say.

In the past 4+ years whenever there's been a car conversation, almost everyone have only expressed surprise that I chose the Jazz, stating its too expensive and/or a 'flop' model.
Most haven't heard about Jazz. And I am talking about Bangalore folks.

When they ask why I chose this, and I start talking about ivtec, super airy cabin, space, build quality, nice steering, spacious boot and that after 4+ years, there isn't a single rattle anywhere.
But none of these points are convincing to them, trust me, none of them. They lose interest and ask about mileage. And I answer 14kmpl in Bangalore traffic and 20 kmpl on highway. That makes them smile, because now they think I chose Jazz because of mileage !!!
(I usually don't find it worthwhile telling them - if you want to hear the sweet ivtec, mileage becomes 10-12 kmpl on highway, and its totally worth it)

But whoever sits in Jazz comes away very impressed. But that doesn't take them away from Maruti Swift.

Anyway, I don't see anything changing in future.
Honda cannot sell Jazz for much lower than City, given that its more expensive to make (for same engine option).
It will still be an expensive hatch, and only people who want it will buy it. Honda will not be able to win potential customers based on Jazz's features.

Suits me fine, even after 4 years, Jazz has a fresh air to it and I love getting behind the steering wheel every time.
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