Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd January 2015, 10:56   #676
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,077
Thanked: 639 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iridium View Post
I have a silver Honda Jazz Select edition - May 2010 and a Ertiga silver ZDI - June 2013.

Jazz has done 39k kms and Ertiga has done close to 25k kms.

If I had to do a comparison

Jazz
Seats are more comfy
Far more smoother controls.
5 - 6 hour drive in Jazz, I've experienced lesser fatigue compared to Ertiga
Braking is far superior to Ertiga in terms of the quickness and the way in which the car comes to a halt.
Lets see how much of that remains in the new Jazz. Going by the new City & Mobilio, Honda will surely not be wowing us. They can't make the Jazz feel more premium than the City and the City itself now is no beacon of build quality or comfort. I'm preparing to be disappointed by the new Jazz.
Nilesh5417 is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 11:04   #677
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,942
Thanked: 16,609 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratos453 View Post
I love the debate and I find your argument quiet valid but not all think the same.
I never said everyone thinks that way. Primary competition is the Elite i20 (Even the Polo GT or the upcoming YRA) without a doubt, but then we have discussed that topic to great lengths already.

My comparison is only for a fraction of the market who would look at the Jazz mainly for the space and versatility. Would they be tempted to look at the Maruti, if priced similarly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratos453 View Post
Why don't we have a poll and see how many votes Jazz gets against Ertiga?
I am of the opinion that team-bhp polls with honda cars don't go so well. The poll counts tend to show a big increase compared to the trend in posts.

Examples -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post3507884 (Tata Zest vs Maruti Dzire vs Honda Amaze vs Hyundai Xcent)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3612211 (Team-BHP Car of the Year, 2014. EDIT: Tata Zest it is!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iridium View Post
Jazz has done 39k kms and Ertiga has done close to 25k kms.
Wow. You are the ideal candidate to conclude the discussions we were having above. Do you feel the Ertiga is comparable to the Jazz at similar prices - for people who look mainly at space and practicality? Or is it just me.

And also - which would be your pick, at the same price?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 23rd January 2015 at 11:06.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 11:19   #678
BHPian
 
Kratos453's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chennai
Posts: 124
Thanked: 140 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
My comparison is only for a fraction of the market who would look at the Jazz mainly for the space and versatility. Would they be tempted to look at the Maruti, if priced similarly?
This sounds right. If it is about the fraction of market who would look at the Jazz mainly for the space and versatility, I am sure Ertiga will be a threat. But then again there is Mobilio. At the end everything depends on the pricing more than anything else. If priced right Honda has got a winner.
Kratos453 is online now  
Old 23rd January 2015, 11:25   #679
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,477
Thanked: 3,619 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

How and why is Jazz more expensive to make than the Honda city? Someone mentioned that in outside markets it is even placed higher than the city price wise. Why is it so? Just to give it a premium positioning or is the input price more? Same or lesser capacity engine, lesser overall body surface area should mean a lesser price tag too right?
drmohitg is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 11:36   #680
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 120
Thanked: 48 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Given our Indian mindset, if Honda does not place Jazz in the right price band, it would be a sufferer once again. The only USP will be the diesel pot aka the 1.5 iDTEC that I can forsee. As for the petrol siblings, people wanting the H badge might wish to upgrade to a spacious Amaze with the extra boot sans the cheap interior quality. One of my friend was planning to buy an Elite i20 but when he saw the Xcent with the extra boot, he immediately went for it. Not that everybody would follow the same path but the primary competitors for Jazz should be the Swift and Elite i20.

B/w the Jazz and Ertiga, clearly the latter is more practical and better packed any day! But at the end of the day, you need to prioritise your requirements.
CountMe91 is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 11:55   #681
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

the only real competitor to Jazz is the Elite I20.

Now, if we compare the 2 cars, this is what we get
For Jazz -
Better interior space
larger boot space (> 100L)
More flexibility (magic seats)
Better engine and performance - I have driven the 2 cars quite a bit (petrol)...and the I20 runs out of breath on the highways quite easily with a full load. The Jazz performs better. Diesel - not sure
Better mileage - Again, leaving aside the ARAI numbers, the real life FE of Honda engines is better than Hyundai and the best thing is the FE stays good for a long time whereas Hyundai engines FE seem to drop off after a few years. Again, not sure for the diesel version. may be someone else can pitch in.

For I20
- Better features (may be) - depends on how Honda prices the Jazz vis-a-vis the features. I feel I20 might still win but by a small margin.
- Better quality?
- What else? Design, may be but that's subjective. I find both the cars good looking in their own way.

Given the above, if Honda prices the Jazz close to I20 (or may be a small premium) assuming the features are evenly matched, the Jazz should do very well indeed.

Last edited by adimicra : 23rd January 2015 at 12:00.
adimicra is online now  
Old 23rd January 2015, 11:57   #682
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,942
Thanked: 16,609 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
How and why is Jazz more expensive to make than the Honda city? Someone mentioned that in outside markets it is even placed higher than the city price wise. Why is it so? Just to give it a premium positioning or is the input price more? Same or lesser capacity engine, lesser overall body surface area should mean a lesser price tag too right?
Yes. Below are the price lists for Jazz and City respectively for Thailand.

Name:  Jazz.jpg
Views: 1581
Size:  120.9 KB

City-
Name:  City.jpg
Views: 1496
Size:  106.7 KB

I think a hatch is just as complicated to design and manufacture compared to a boot. The extra price we pay for models like the Amaze over the Brio should mainly be due to the market perception and willingness to pay extra for a 'sedan'. Infact - Honda had made an announcement along similar lines when the earlier Jazz was launched, however - I can't seem to find it with google search.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 23rd January 2015 at 11:59.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 23rd January 2015, 12:06   #683
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 101
Thanked: 9 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Let me add some more inputs on my Jazz & Eritga

Jazz
Interiors are definitely premium and when you sit inside, you feel good. Its an awesome feeling.
Apart from the space, versatility, Jazz has the following:
Iridium plugs that are supposed to last 1 lakh kms.
The first gear oil change is in 10 years or 60K kms.
(today even the new alto, the gear box oil change is at 1,60,000 kms).
The coolant is some chemical, so every service, distilled water is added. This is supposed to last 10 years.
All the above are supposed to lower the cost of ownership in terms of service bills.
Coming to service bills, somehow the bill comes to around 5K every service. The labour costs for Honda are pretty huge in comparison to Maruti.
I supply the engine oil each time.

At every 20k kms, the AC filter had to be replaced and that cost Rs.1100.

The windshield wipers are very good. I changed them after 3 years. They cost Rs. 550 for one. So a pair is Rs.1100. The issue is that I was charged Rs. 68 to replace them that too when I had given the car for service. In a maruti service station, these are things for which you don't get charged.

I have the Bosch Aero Twin blade wipers in my Ertiga which cost Rs. 1650 (for a pair). However the Jazz stock windshield wipers are equally good if not better than the Bosch ones.

I have the stock K&N filter. So when I open up, it gives a nice meaty growl.

Driving experience is smooth as silk on tarmac. Low end grunt is lacking and if you have to climb uphill, then again you need to downshift.
But make no mistake, it does come back quickly (at least the meaty growl in my car makes me think so )

Yes, low speed ride is a little stiff but on tarmac when you take curves at higher speeds, this helps in not bottoming out.

I have used both Ertiga and Jazz to transport things that usually people dont. Examples: Cement Bags, Sand in Cement Bags, black plastic garbage covers full of dried tree leaves.

I get the Jazz interiors cleaned at a Maruti Service station since its nearer to my house.

Ertiga the suspension is in a different league when compared to the Jazz. So also the power and mileage.
Jazz - if i use it for small runs near my house, it gives 11 - 12 kmpl.
If I use it to my office which is 15kms one way, it gives between 14 - 15kmpl. On the highways, if I keep the needle between 90 - 100kmph and go easy on the throttle, then I get between 17 - 18 kmpl.
If Im downshifting and opening up, then the worst I've got is 13.5kmpl.

Ertiga - the best I've got is 21kmpl and the worst is 17kmpl on the highways.
In city, it gives me anywhere between 15 - 16.5 kmpl. I have the stock K&N filter on this.

In terms of the space in both, Jazz is very well done with no space being wasted. Ertiga - the seats should have been more neatly rounded etc. to create more space since I see that there is a lot of opportunity to create space.
Though the seats in Ertiga are thicker, the seat egronomics of Jazz are far superior.

Jazz has a few features that not many people might be aware of.
- Speed sensitive volume control
- Seat belts with pre-tensioners

which are not there in the Ertiga.
In terms of daily use, above features might not make much sense.

Both are different and have their own advantages and disadvantages and I atleast don't think that these two should not be compared since the needs would definitely be different when someone is looking at either of these vehicles.

Last edited by iridium : 23rd January 2015 at 12:08.
iridium is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 12:14   #684
BHPian
 
abkett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SYDNEY/SINPORE/
Posts: 65
Thanked: 31 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Yes. Below are the price lists for Jazz and City respectively for Thailand.

Attachment 1331717

City-
Attachment 1331718

I think a hatch is just as complicated to design and manufacture compared to a boot. The extra price we pay for models like the Amaze over the Brio should mainly be due to the market perception and willingness to pay extra for a 'sedan'. Infact - Honda had made an announcement along similar lines when the earlier Jazz was launched, however - I can't seem to find it with google search.
Assuming 1.5 l engineAs per the above , we have 22% excise duty in thailand and 1 thai baht is 1.89 inr . So it works out to be 9 lakhs for the base variant and 12 lakhs for the top variant . If it were to be 1.2 engine I think due to tax sops price may come to around 7 lakhs
abkett is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 12:26   #685
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,477
Thanked: 3,619 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abkett View Post
Assuming 1.5 l engineAs per the above , we have 22% excise duty in thailand and 1 thai baht is 1.89 inr . So it works out to be 9 lakhs for the base variant and 12 lakhs for the top variant . If it were to be 1.2 engine I think due to tax sops price may come to around 7 lakhs
It has to be priced lower to the city for sure in India for giving it any chance whatsoever to succeed. I think Honda would have learnt its lesson from the response to earlier Jazz and to some extent the Mobilio too. The pricing would be more in line with the i20 I assume and knowing Honda's way of doing things, it would mostly be few thousands more than i20 model to model. Introducing the 1.5L engine as a one off variant to take on the Polo GT models is understandable. But launching a whole line of variants with that engine option is a dead sure failure as the price point will no longer stay practical.

Deep down I do wish they launch the 1.5 + AT combo.
drmohitg is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 13:38   #686
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 101
Thanked: 9 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

What I heard is that it will come only with the 1.2 litre iVTEC and not the 1.5 lite iVTEC (from a reliable source).
iridium is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 23rd January 2015, 14:23   #687
@KP
BHPian
 
@KP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 146
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Can the reliable source also provide info on launch date?
@KP is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 14:32   #688
BHPian
 
abkett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SYDNEY/SINPORE/
Posts: 65
Thanked: 31 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

@kp - anytime after budget . probably second week of march
abkett is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 23rd January 2015, 15:02   #689
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

I thought this is a nice video of Jazz(Fit in the US) and its features.
Of course lots of features will be skimmed when it is released here.

WRXXX is offline  
Old 23rd January 2015, 15:05   #690
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iridium View Post
What I heard is that it will come only with the 1.2 litre iVTEC and not the 1.5 lite iVTEC (from a reliable source).
Lot of it because of the excise cuts an under 1.2L petrol and sub 4 meter car gets in India,
without which Jazz will go back to the position where it was I think.
WRXXX is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got our new car - 3rd-Gen Honda City manishkapadia Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 43 6th December 2015 23:57
Honda to raise car prices, and Jazz launch soon. EDIT : Jazz spotted testing on pg.14 GeekSrik The Indian Car Scene 463 9th March 2010 11:17
SCOOP! All New 3rd Gen Honda City Caught Testing EDIT : Interior pics on Pg. 39 awarty The Indian Car Scene 913 25th September 2008 20:27


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:04.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks