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Old 14th May 2015, 13:05   #961
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
I think what you have mentioned is too high. At 5.99 it will be ~1.10 lakh more than the elite which starts at 4.89 and whatever jazz has, it does not warrant that much of a premium over the elite i20.
Elite i20 at 4.89 lakhs?? Please get your facts right boss. Starting price of Elite i20 (Era Petrol) is 5,30,476 ex-showroom Delhi, which I think is the lowest. So, even at 5.99, it it around 70k premium to i20, which IMO is too high. I maintain, 5.5 lakhs or lower should be the starting price for Jazz petrol E-variant to be competitive with i20.
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Old 14th May 2015, 13:11   #962
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Originally Posted by Vigkey View Post
Elite i20 at 4.89 lakhs?? Please get your facts right boss. Starting price of Elite i20 (Era Petrol) is 5,30,476 ex-showroom Delhi, which I think is the lowest. So, even at 5.99, it it around 70k premium to i20, which IMO is too high. I maintain, 5.5 lakhs or lower should be the starting price for Jazz petrol E-variant to be competitive with i20.

I saw the rates off the official review and at the time of initial launch, I do not know the price after the hike.
Considering that it was priced at 4.89 ex showroom Delhi at launch, but it had excise benefits. Without benefits , price should increase by around 20-25k and the rest maybe the hike due to its popularity. So Jazz should launch at say 5.7 at most.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:20   #963
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

As per an article on ET, Honda Jazz is expected to be launched on 8th July.

Interestingly the article also says, "Honda Cars stockyard in Greater Noida having a capacity of 5,500 units is packed with the Mobilio and Amaze as there is a slide in demand for these two models ... Some of these cars have also been shifted to Tapukara plant," a company source told ETAuto. The source said at least 7,000-8,000 units of the two car models were lying at both the plants.

The company said this wasn't because of demand issues. "This is an exercise to create production capacity for the upcoming model Jazz and also to compensate the summer production shutdown coming up this month," said Jnaneswar Sen, senior vice president for sales and marketing at Honda Cars India.


Also, I think there is a possibility that Honda has not revealed all features of Jazz in its video. End of the day its just a teaser video.

Even if the features are as shown in video, I think Honda has done a good balancing act by prioritizing features that are must have than good to have. (I am sure preference will vary from person to person)

Last edited by damager21 : 14th May 2015 at 15:23.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:34   #964
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Considering Honda, Jazz pricing will start around 6.5 Lacs ex-showroom Delhi, +/- 25K. So it will be less costly than City, which is their flagship product for so many years but will be more than Amaze which is their so called entry level car (compact sedan). If they can price it below 6 then it will be good pricing IMO. Anything more than 7 will be disaster like before. Let's see.

Honda should learn few things from Hyundai. They have priced Elite i20 very nicely. Base model is also decently loaded and top model has so many features. If Hyundai can sell Elite i20 more than 10 K, i am sure Honda can also target sales of 5 K at least if priced aggressively. Honda should only think of competing with i20 now, forget about all other cars.

Last edited by aniketi : 14th May 2015 at 15:35.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:46   #965
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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Considering Honda, Jazz pricing will start around 6.5 Lacs ex-showroom Delhi, +/- 25K. So it will be less costly than City, which is their flagship product for so many years but will be more than Amaze which is their so called entry level car (compact sedan). If they can price it below 6 then it will be good pricing IMO. Anything more than 7 will be disaster like before. Let's see. .
How will they justify a 1.2 lakh premium over the i20? It might go the previous gen Jazz way if that is done. I believe a starting price of over 6L will make the car overpriced and will greatly hamper its sales. I have been waiting for the car since months but just 1L difference (6.5 vs 7.5) between jazz and city for a much better engine and bigger car will surely tempt an upgrade. After mobilo's failure Honda ought not be too ambitious. Let's hope for the best.
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:47   #966
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by ToyotaFan View Post
I hope this is correct and a 5.5 L starting price is sure to make this car a blockbuster hit. I personally feel this car will start at 5.99 L for the base variant but if the base variant has airbags and abs as standard (like the old jazz) then also this pricing might be justified. At 5.99 I expect both i20 and jazz to sell well but if its 5.49 then the i20 might be in a spot of bother provided Honda can ensure sufficient supply. Petrol cars in Delhi are only taxed 4% for ex showroom price lower than 6L. If we get safety features at that price it would make it a sweet deal.
It definitely has to be priced lesser than 5.5L. The reason being the previous gen Jazz received a massive price cut from approximately 7.3 L ex-showroom to 5.5 L ex-showroom for the base variant in 2011-2012 which had ABS, Airbags and a lot more goodies before it was phased out due to high loss per car sold (but not before increasing the price of each variant by approximately 20k twice).

Assuming that Honda would have woken up and definitely removed atleast ABS and/or Airbags from the base version of the new Jazz to bring in volumes, they can in no way price it above the price of the discontinued version. And considering the high localisation levels for the new Jazz compared to the older one, pricing it less than 5.5 L should be inherent. Sincerely hope Honda doesn't screw up the pricing this time (Only that I feel, they will ).
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Old 14th May 2015, 16:04   #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi
Considering Honda, Jazz pricing will start around 6.5 Lacs ex-showroom Delhi, +/- 25K. So it will be less costly than City, which is their flagship product for so many years but will be more than Amaze which is their so called entry level car (compact sedan). If they can price it below 6 then it will be good pricing IMO. Anything more than 7 will be disaster like before. Let's see..
At the risk of being beaten up, I would say that unless Jazz is priced very close to Amaze it won't sell in the numbers that they would like. The case with Jazz/Amaze is different from i20/Xcent since Xcent is probably one of the lousiest compact sedan while Amaze is selling amazingly well. So, i20 can be priced above xcent but the same logic may not work for jazz vs amaze.
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Old 14th May 2015, 16:30   #968
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by narenteam View Post
The case with Jazz/Amaze is different from i20/Xcent since Xcent is probably one of the lousiest compact sedan while Amaze is selling amazingly well. So, i20 can be priced above xcent but the same logic may not work for jazz vs amaze.
Have you seen the Amaze and the Jazz? How do you expect the pricing to be similar given the huge difference in quality? And, Amaze is not a blockbuster anyways...the sales trend is definitely down

Does anyone know if the Diesel Jazz is getting 6 speed gearbox? I think not but Honda might take a leaf out of Hyundai and provide it.
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Old 14th May 2015, 16:55   #969
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Does anyone know if the Diesel Jazz is getting 6 speed gearbox? I think not but Honda might take a leaf out of Hyundai and provide it.
Chances are very, very slim.

For one, the 6th gear is the main differentiator between the diesel versions of the Amaze & the City. So to keep this differentiation going, the Jazz i-DTEC might not be offered with a 6th gear either (just to keep the City a bit more premium, since the drivetrains are the same, power-wise and torque-wise).

Secondly, the i20 has more torque on tap (220 Nm) so the 6th gear helps immensely in this regard, with respect to highway cruising. The Jazz will have 200 Nm at it's disposal, so Honda might think that 5 gears (similar to the Amaze) in the box would suffice. Plus, lower costs will be a factor if they plonk the gearbox from the Amaze directly into the Jazz.
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Old 14th May 2015, 18:06   #970
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by damager21 View Post
Also, I think there is a possibility that Honda has not revealed all features of Jazz in its video. End of the day its just a teaser video.

Even if the features are as shown in video, I think Honda has done a good balancing act by prioritizing features that are must have than good to have. (I am sure preference will vary from person to person)
Very much possible Damager21. They would not have highlighted some features to surprise the customers and also competition during launch. Push-button start, paddle shifters, magic seats, rear AC vents could be some surprise additions

But even with the identified set of features, Jazz is neck to neck with i20 - The only fancy feature many were looking forward to and missing in Jazz (as per the teaser) could be the key-less entry and go. Build quality and interior plastic quality will be something to look out for though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Considering Honda, Jazz pricing will start around 6.5 Lacs ex-showroom Delhi, +/- 25K. So it will be less costly than City, which is their flagship product for so many years but will be more than Amaze which is their so called entry level car (compact sedan). If they can price it below 6 then it will be good pricing IMO. Anything more than 7 will be disaster like before. Let's see.
Aniketi, this is not previous generation Jazz where there were only 3 variants and all three were pretty well loaded with some very minor differences between them. This time Honda is targeting the masses and have many variants - starting from barebones to fully loaded. Starting price of 6.5 lakhs (No, I am not going to consider the +/2 25k) will make sure the 1000s of Jazzs manufactured already will remain in Tapukara itself.

Based on your pricing, Jazz will range from 6.5 to 8.3 lakhs for petrol. SV MT City comes at 8.8 lakhs. For a bigger engine, City brand and sedan snob value, people will easily buy City. IMO, Jazz top-end should not touch City Base (just like i20 vs Verna) - only then there will be good sales for Jazz.

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Honda should learn few things from Hyundai. They have priced Elite i20 very nicely. Base model is also decently loaded and top model has so many features. If Hyundai can sell Elite i20 more than 10 K, i am sure Honda can also target sales of 5 K at least if priced aggressively. Honda should only think of competing with i20 now, forget about all other cars.
Honda is in fact learning from Hyundai. You can see that in City initial pricing and kind of features offered. Hyundai base is barre-bones just like Honda same goes for top end also. Honda, I am sure is targeting i20 alone and will be looking at ~7k sales per month. Swift is too far ahead and they will be very confident of beating Polo and Bolt.

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Originally Posted by ToyotaFan View Post
How will they justify a 1.2 lakh premium over the i20? It might go the previous gen Jazz way if that is done. I believe a starting price of over 6L will make the car overpriced and will greatly hamper its sales. I have been waiting for the car since months but just 1L difference (6.5 vs 7.5) between jazz and city for a much better engine and bigger car will surely tempt an upgrade. After mobilo's failure Honda ought not be too ambitious. Let's hope for the best.
Totally agree!! i20 + 20k is the max they can do - not a rupee more IMO. Less than that will be sweet

Quote:
Originally Posted by kat View Post
It definitely has to be priced lesser than 5.5L.

Assuming that Honda would have woken up and definitely removed atleast ABS and/or Airbags from the base version of the new Jazz to bring in volumes
I am sure the base variant will be ~5.5 lakhs itself and it will have ABS + EBD and driver airbags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narenteam View Post
At the risk of being beaten up, I would say that unless Jazz is priced very close to Amaze it won't sell in the numbers that they would like. The case with Jazz/Amaze is different from i20/Xcent since Xcent is probably one of the lousiest compact sedan while Amaze is selling amazingly well. So, i20 can be priced above xcent but the same logic may not work for jazz vs amaze.
If you compare Xcent and i20, except for the diesel engine, Xcent is very very close to i20 on quality, space and equipment. Still i20 is priced well over Xcent and is selling super numbers.

Amaze and Jazz are different ball games IMO. Very few who consider Jazz will go for Amaze considering Jazz has same engine-set and offers similar boot space and has more space inside. Amaze is only for people who want a Honda sedan but cannot afford City. Jazz should fill the Amaze City gap. Jazz and Amaze will have a lot of overlap and Jazz will be priced 20k-50k over Amaze. That much will surely be justified with the kind of equipment and quality Jazz brings in. And here you say, Jazz should be priced close to Amaze - What an irony.

I quote my post again on my thoughts on how the Jazz pricing should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigkey View Post
According to me, Price of Jazz should be between Amaze and City and around 15-20k plus or minus i20 prices. All prices ex-Delhi

Petrol
Amaze - 5.2 to 7.3 lakhs
Elite i20 - 5.3 to 6.9 lakhs
City - 7.5 to 10.6 lakhs

Diesel
Amaze - 6.2 to 8.2 lakhs
Elite i20 - 6.4 to 8 lakhs
City - 8.7 to 11.8 lakhs

Going by this, my pricing for Jazz will be 5.5 to 7.2 for Petrol and 6.5 to 8.2 for diesel ex-showroom Delhi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Have you seen the Amaze and the Jazz? How do you expect the pricing to be similar given the huge difference in quality? And, Amaze is not a blockbuster anyways...the sales trend is definitely down
Totally agree Adimicra. I have driven the Amaze and have got driven around in Grand i10 and Xcent. The quality and finish levels are uncomparable. So, a premium over Amaze is totally justified. But, Amaze is a super-hit in its respect. Agree that it has not managed to come close to Dzire, but the monthly sales (not the dispatches), I am sure, is better than all other compact sedans in market today.

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Does anyone know if the Diesel Jazz is getting 6 speed gearbox? I think not but Honda might take a leaf out of Hyundai and provide it.
Very slim chance like RavenAvi has pointed out. But will be sweet to get the 6-speed in Jazz also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
For one, the 6th gear is the main differentiator between the diesel versions of the Amaze & the City. So to keep this differentiation going, the Jazz i-DTEC might not be offered with a 6th gear either (just to keep the City a bit more premium, since the drivetrains are the same, power-wise and torque-wise).
Another way to look at it RavenAvi. What if Honda has kept the 5-speed box for Brio platform i.e. Entry level cars and 6-speed for Jazz platform i.e. premium cars. Honda will have to show Jazz as more premium compared to Amaze and 6-speed box could be one of the differentiators. I agree that chances are slim. But still hoping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Secondly, the i20 has more torque on tap (220 Nm) so the 6th gear helps immensely in this regard, with respect to highway cruising. The Jazz will have 200 Nm at it's disposal, so Honda might think that 5 gears (similar to the Amaze) in the box would suffice. Plus, lower costs will be a factor if they plonk the gearbox from the Amaze directly into the Jazz.
Oh come on RavenAvi. If a heavier City can use the 6-speed box for highway cruising, it should perform better in a lighter Jazz. Also, they can manage a higher FE if they have the 6th gear. In a FE conscious market, shouldn't this be helping Honda??
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Old 14th May 2015, 19:38   #971
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

True, but then there wouldn't be too much to differentiate between the premium hatch and the premium sedan. Not to forget that the City is Honda Cars India's bread-and-butter right now, so they will ensure enough differentiation between other products and it's premium offering so that they continue with the strong monthly sales of the City. Better profit margins is another angle here as well.

Also, rising costs would mean an overpriced product (at least the diesel variants) at launch - a mistake which Honda wouldn't want to repeat once again with the Jazz.

Aspirational value and the added boot might not bring too many numbers in, which would result in decline of sales, and Honda would be aware of it. Nope, they will stick with a 5MT gearbox. If the Amaze delivers 25.8 kmpl with it, it's for sure that the Jazz would bring in a figure around the same mark - maybe a little more than even the City! Could be another USP for the premium hatch.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 14th May 2015 at 19:40.
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Old 15th May 2015, 00:38   #972
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Aspirational value and the added boot might not bring too many numbers in, which would result in decline of sales, and Honda would be aware of it. Nope, they will stick with a 5MT gearbox. If the Amaze delivers 25.8 kmpl with it, it's for sure that the Jazz would bring in a figure around the same mark - maybe a little more than even the City! Could be another USP for the premium hatch.
Agreed. Honda might most probably go with the 5 speed box for Jazz. But with that box, getting a FE more than Amaze will not be possible. Sedan's aerodynamics and Jazz's higher weight will mean Jazz will have a slightly lower FE compared to Amaze - so no way it is going to overtake City with a 6 speed box. Now, this is considering the engine will be carried over exactly as it is. But a 6 speed box will mean the FE will be greater than amaze and very close to city - say 25.9 kmpl.

But your point that City might lose sales if Jazz is given the 6 speed box is invalid IMO. City is a bigger car, a sedan, a premium car with terrific brand recall. Jazz might take away a few youth customers from City who might prefer a sporty looking hatchback, but otherwise, City is not be impacted by Jazz.
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Old 15th May 2015, 01:16   #973
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

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Originally Posted by lazy View Post
As someone who bought the Jazz back in 2010 and since seen it cover 35K flawlessly, I can easily say this is a better car than the i20.

Had ABS + Airbags across the range, unlike i20 which gets 5 star for their highest version, but puts the 5 star sticker on every bloody variant. Not to mention vast expanses of plastic in that car. And until the Elite i20 came, the i20 was a rather ugly car, whereas the 1st gen Jazz is still a looker.

Jazz is a surprisingly low maintenance car, each service costing approx. Rs 2500/- only. City mileage 15 kmpl.

I haven't driven the Elite i20, but if the steering is the same as older models, then Jazz's steering itself is worth atleast Rs 50K premium Honda might charge on Jazz over i20.

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1. While I agree that the 2010 Jazz was a better car than the 2010 i20, it was comparatively expensive too. Plus the top-end i20 was more feature rich than the top-end Jazz, even the City for that matter.

2. About the pre-Elite i20 being ugly, I think you are one of the very few to have that opinion, the i20 has always been a well proportioned, handsome car, in fact it was the Jazz with those bug like headlamps which lost points on looks for me, but that's what they say about looks, looks are subjective!

3. Maintenance costs of the petrol i20 are in the same ball park as those of the Honda Jazz. Authorized service centers for Honda and Hyundai are equally good, trust me on this, I own cars from both the manufacturers.

4. Check out the interiors of the Elite i20 in flesh once, and then compare it to those of the Jazz, hell you can go one segment higher and compare it to the new City's interiors and still the Hyundai would win hands down!

5. I genuinely think you should TD the Elite i20 once, it has improved on most of its weaknesses, handling and dynamics included, and as a package, its very good a car to beat!

Last edited by 599gto : 15th May 2015 at 01:20.
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Old 15th May 2015, 01:27   #974
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Originally Posted by narenteam View Post

At the risk of being beaten up, I would say that unless Jazz is priced very close to Amaze it won't sell in the numbers that they would like. The case with Jazz/Amaze is different from i20/Xcent since Xcent is probably one of the lousiest compact sedan while Amaze is selling amazingly well. So, i20 can be priced above xcent but the same logic may not work for jazz vs amaze.
That is a good point. Also Honda doesn't have enough existing customers they can leverage up for an upgrade to a premium hatch.
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Old 15th May 2015, 02:14   #975
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Default re: The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen)

Jazz can easily command a premium of 50k more then elite I20.
All those bells and whistles like keyless entry etc which the elite i20 has are not a deal breaker when one is buying a car.
The Jazz even the older one simply has more space then even a Verna,Vento,Sx4,Linea.
The new one is even bigger has magic seats and bigger boot compared to all other hatchbacks.
So, it will command a premium not to mention the Honda badge.

Last edited by aim120 : 15th May 2015 at 02:16.
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