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Old 12th June 2013, 01:55   #91
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Quality and Design are always priority for any Indian buyer across segments. And somehow, TATA seems to get it wrong every single time. They will come up with the wierdest shapes for the cars, or come up with illogical interior/meter console layouts. Not to mention the plastics. They own two of the world's most stylish and niche brands. Why won't they learn?
The TATA's taxi image definately doesnot help. For a new car I would advice them to come up with a compact and light hatch or mini suv. And, PLEASE TATA drop the taxi names (Indica, Indigo, Sumo) for the new cars. This will help with the overall image of the product. Also, please innovate on better marketing strategies or hire a better ad company. Look at the competetion.
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Old 12th June 2013, 08:29   #92
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Looking for suggestions as to what Tata Motors can do to improve their cars in future...
Looking at it, only from a customer-perspective - completely disregarding how difficult/impossible this may be for TATA Motors, from their current financial/strategic position.

1. Refresh/Rethink family-look for passenger cars. The "generic" look for TATA passenger cars has run its course, to say the least! Worse, it screams "office/taxi-cab"!!
For instance, if you want (who I think is) your Manza target-segment to seriously consider buying the Manza, then please don't make it look like their airport-taxi's fat aunt.

2. Get an Exciting New Car out! Shake things about, a bit!! You are doing your bit to make sensible cars! Go out of your way, for once!!

3. We might drive Jap cars, we might drool at German cars, but nothing tugs at our heart-strings as "our Indian carmaker" who went out there, and is showing the world how it is done! Remember the feel-good, "Hamara Bajaj" campaign?

Off-topic(?!) : I've been behind the wheel of only two TATA cars, so far. One was way back in 2000-01, and another, in 2012. Yes, your quality (handling, ride, material, fit & finish, "feel") has improved, no end. Frankly, I'd buy the car I drove in 2012. In spite of this, it STILL did not make my consider-list when I changed cars, end-2012! Go figure!! Make me buy, TATA!!
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Old 12th June 2013, 09:28   #93
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
There have been enough posts made already, on the need for TaMo to improve on quality. However, after owning the 2011 Vista for two years and following a friend's ownership of the Ford Figo, I feel the quality is decent, if not the best.
Most folks here who complain about reliability of Tata cars are speaking about the long term reliability, after covering around 80-100k km. Maintenance expenses for an Indica seems to be increasing drastically once the car covers around 80k, when compared to the competition. Not too sure about the 'magic number' for other Tata vehicles but I know a few Safari owners too who are calling TASS every week for some issue or the other.
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Old 12th June 2013, 10:01   #94
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

My first suggestion to them would be trash the Sumo Grande, and bring out a car in the same segment which can give the upcoming EcoSport and Duster a real run for their money. (Perhaps the Sierra brand can be brought back? ) TATA has been known to be the maker of trucks et al, and it should make one for the general public too by making an awesome urban SUV
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Old 12th June 2013, 13:55   #95
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

I know you would have got too many suggestion, but I could not help voice my 2 bits too!

My History with TATA cars, I've owned an Indigo CS TDi for 4.5yrs - 90K kms and sold it last year. I've recently driven the Manza quadrajet in my extended family for about 2k kms.

What TATA is doing right
1) The Manza is a HUGE improvement in all areas over the previous gen Indigo.
2) I've found the suspension in both the Indigo CS and Manza to provide very good ride, at the expense of sharp handling, but the compromise is acceptable.
3) They have access to good engines, the MultiJet, FIRE and their own TDi and DiCOR
4) They have access to good technology features in terms of the Sync and electronics in cabin.

What we need to see in future TATA cars
1) Better design. Same platform does NOT mean similar body styles. The Manza and Vista exterior designs look like they have been made by a 4 yr old just learning to draw. Sleeker designs are possible and have been done for regular cars by other manufacturers. They only have to look at Honda/Mazda/Nissan for the latest incarnation of Civic/Mazda6/Altima (to name a few) to know that good design is possible for family cars.

2) Ground-breaking technology. We have been hearing for years on TATA research into EV's and Air Cars (They even took over MDI of France for their compressed air powered engine tech). When will we see these hybrids in the mainstream? TATA need to convert their research $$$'s into revenue $$$'s.

3) Quality Control. This has been talked about a lot. QC will resolve a lot of problems such as poor fit n finish issues, reliability issues etc. The reason I sold our Indigo was that after 80-85K kms, it started giving one unpredictable problem after another. This despite fantastic maintenance such that folks could not believe the age n kms of the car. When I put it up for sale, I immediately got 3 buyers from my colony who had seen the way it had been maintained. The Manza has good features, but I found that the in car electronics had a mind of their own. QC will fix this as well.

In all, points 1 & 3 addressed in the future TATA roll-outs will greatly help change the perception of TATA in the peoples mind. And I don't mean new models, they can start on existing models too.

TATA Motors has real problems, but the perception that people have greatly aggravates them.

As someone suggested, a good approach would be if you can go through the entire thread, jot down the salient points and present it when you meet Mr. Slym. If you're unable to take a laptop/tablet then taking printouts of the points would be good enough.

You have got a good opportunity, which a lot of T-BHP'ians would give an arm and a leg for. I wish you all the best for it, whenever it happens.
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Old 12th June 2013, 15:15   #96
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Default Why not revive Sierra.

First of all, Congratulations.
I think you should suggest about reviving the Sierra again. TaMo now has a decent engine and needs desperately a car with looks different than current breed of *ca, *go and *ri.
At this juncture, the Macho Sierra would fit in perfectly and also with a reduced gestation: typical bottleneck of TaMo product developements the new product can be launched faster.
An all new futuristic dash and interior quality matching Hyundai would set the charts on fire again. Guess with half the work already lying in there own junk yard, costs of developing new car could also be substantially less.
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:05   #97
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

My opinion on why the nano doest sell as well as it should (i dont think its a failure):

1. Design
- Feminine looks. Its too 'cute'. It should have been more sporty instead. If this was meant to be a viable option for bike buyers, it should have been designed a lil sporty.
- Bug like front
- Looks Too much like indica. so there is some boredom.
- Bland and Conservative interiors with poor quality. A bit boring.
2. Boot does not open. You cant store a full size bag in there. So its practicality is severely restricted.
3. 'Petrol car' factor, especially from tata. I think a diesel will sell more
4. Lacks aspirational value in terms of available gizmos. Power steering would only be a start, there should be complete feature set like in XUV500.
5. Needs more powerful engine as an option.
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Old 12th June 2013, 17:01   #98
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
My opinion on why the nano doest sell as well as it should (i dont think its a failure):

1. Design
- Feminine looks. Its too 'cute'. It should have been more sporty instead. If this was meant to be a viable option for bike buyers, it should have been designed a lil sporty.
- Bug like front
- Looks Too much like indica. so there is some boredom.
- Bland and Conservative interiors with poor quality. A bit boring.
2. Boot does not open. You cant store a full size bag in there. So its practicality is severely restricted.
3. 'Petrol car' factor, especially from tata. I think a diesel will sell more
4. Lacks aspirational value in terms of available gizmos. Power steering would only be a start, there should be complete feature set like in XUV500.
5. Needs more powerful engine as an option.
I don't think that looks are that bad that it shouldn't sell, but IMO, no diesel, an electric Nano is the best Tata can do. Nano is the best contender for an electric vehicle- light weight & strictly a city car.
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Old 12th June 2013, 17:50   #99
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Tata Motors MD wants to know how to improve his products, joke of the decade!

Ask him to pick up the feedback forms from service centers, type 'tata after sales' in google and read a couple horror stories, surf some ownership threads on Tata cars/SUVs, surf another couple buying stories on how people avoid tata like a plague.

Ask him to get rid of his current quality head, may be lay off a few more.

There's enough VOC (Voice of Customer) available to rectify whatever is wrong, if the MD "really wants" and knows where to look at.

Last edited by fine69 : 12th June 2013 at 18:09.
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Old 13th June 2013, 00:23   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post


Why do you think the Nano is a 'Failure'? Pls Give reasons, (citations of how it is not doing well in terms of sales are not required).

........

I kindly request members not to Label cars as 'Failures' or 'Undesireable', not whether its fair or unfair to conclude so, but because opinions of VERY many people get affected by online reviews.

.......

The TATA Nano is NOT a failure, its an engineering marvel, created by a responsible company that knows its ethics, understands people's needs and is ready to take the challenge to solve the issue.
Why I think the Nano is a Failure:

- Too small for a practical hatch for 4 people
- No boot
- Engine is too unrefined. A '4 wheeled auto' is not just someone's figment of imagination. It does sound that way!
- TATA's after sales service is not up to the mark.
- And sales, my friend, cannot be just sidelined that easily. There are just too many people in India who see 'not enough Nano's' on the road as a reason to look away. No car can be a success without selling.

The Nano being a Failure and the Vista/Manza being Undesirable is just my opinion. I'm entitled to mine, as you are to yours.

And I have to disagree when you call the Nano an engineering marvel. It was a brilliant vision of course, but a marvel? No. probably the Honda Jazz and the Ford Fusion were wonderful products which didn't sell, but not the Nano. It had its flaws which held it back. Probably now us the time someone is gonna point it out to the people who matter!!

Last edited by Geo_Ipe : 13th June 2013 at 00:28.
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Old 13th June 2013, 01:15   #101
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
- Too small for a practical hatch for 4 people
The other points raised may be valid, or at best debatable - but it is obvious from the above statement that the writer has never been in a Nano.

And THAT is the Nano's biggest problem - too many people talking authoritatively about it without having experienced it first hand.
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Old 13th June 2013, 07:02   #102
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Well said! With you, on the Nano.

However, IF the product is good & the average-customer is happy, BUT the sale-volumes are still below target, could it be that :

1. the Positioning itself, is wrong, and/or

2. the Nano team is not Communicating the right things to the right people?

There is at least one other thread where a Nano discussion was on
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2160463 (Tata Nano-November Sales=506. Analysing the root cause and devising the solutions.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqMaster View Post
I personally felt the same about what you have written about the Nano and the Indian Mindset... ... ...
It's sad that we lock our mindset with the limited experiences of our eyes.
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Old 13th June 2013, 10:44   #103
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
- Too small for a practical hatch for 4 people
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
The other points raised may be valid, or at best debatable - but it is obvious from the above statement that the writer has never been in a Nano.
Frankly, let me tell that I have never been in a Nano, but I will go by what most people say about it - It is cleverly packaged and not short in space.

Agreed to the point, but here we are talking about cabin space. All other hatchbacks have a significant boot which eats up some space. There is no boot space in Nano and the cabin space is attained by cutting the boot space, which many people have not commented upon.

Though, no complains on the headroom part, as Nano is a tall boy design and tall boys are inherently entitled to great headroom.

Thanks,
Saket
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Old 13th June 2013, 13:20   #104
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Hey everyone, apologies for the delayed reply, work kept me abit caught up.

A request : Constructive criticism apart, do put up your IDEAS or WISHLISTS. As much as concerns for QC issues are relevant, what's more important is we list out features that can be demanded. Something in the lines of :

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post

My wish list:

Some of this is already present in some variants, but least they loose those in future.
LED DLR's
LED Tail Lights
SatNav Touchscreen with reverse camera- the Parking sensors should also be present if possible.
Tilt and Reach Adjust Steering.
Steering mounted controls.
Arm Rests for both rows.
1L Bottle Holders in all 4 doors.
6+ Speaker Music System
Diesel and Petrol power range to start from 90 BHP.
A sport version with larger Alloys.
Instrumentation in front of the driver not in the middle of the dash.
ACC
ABS - All versions.
All 4 wheel Discs version.
Folding side view mirrors.
15 & 16" Alloy versions for lower and higher trim levels (Skip 14")
Power Down Windows. Power Up with anti pinch technology - if possible else no power up.
Sun Roof Option in top model.
Subwoofer Wiring and Space Provision in Top model - to not risk voiding the warranty.
Auto Light and Auto Rain sensors.
Euro Style Light Switch.
Top variant with 6 Airbags.
Top variant to take on the i20 & Swift with better specs and pricing and the base one the i10 and Brio again with better pricing and specs.
AT - 5/6 Speed. (No DSG pls)
A lot more inspired rear bumper design.
Pricing from 5L-8L Ex showroom for different variants.
If they're ready to innovate, then our wishlists could give them some direction. Like apart from the suggestions you'll made, I'm planning to also suggest :

For Nano : To position the Nano as a Smart Car, amongst other updates, a Push Start/Stop button would be excellent. It'd cost ALOT, but if done in volumes, the costs should be just around 15k more. Apart from that, go door to door providing test drives. That'll clear the doubts people have towards Nano.

Other cars : A separate Club Class 'Plus' variant for every car they make. The benefits would be :

A Push Start/Stop button.
Platinum AMC Package.
Treatment at the service centre should be Much More personalised.
High Quality Complimentary Merchandise.
Invitations to more Special events than regular buyers. (Tata motors Full Throttle)
OnBoard Wi-Fi (google it, you get gadgets to which a pen drive can be plugged in and it'd emit Wi-Fi. Moreover they have Docomo, so a Basic plan shouldn't be very difficult)

Other Suggestions/Ideas :

Consider using JLR Tech (Mechanicals - Gearbox, suspension etc). Build an all new Sedan and a MUV at the Ertiga level.

MOST important of all, by next year, source the iDtec & integrate it with a new sedan positioned a bit above the Manza. Ofcourse with a VGT, effectively churning out 120bhp. Same to be used in the MUV.

Umbrella holder at the door console possible? Like the Skoda Superb.

Another thing I wanted (after the recent incident at a Tunnel in Jaipur)was that they provide a proper first aid kit. I know it may "Send out the Wrong Signal" n'all, but still, its an important thing IMO.

Guys, brainstorm/dig out the net, find something seemingly viable and ask for it. IMO, finally whatever they can integrate, they quite surely will. Do continue pouring in more ideas.

-Rgds

P.S.: And yep,I've an iPad to show him this thread... Will also take hard copies of all relevant parts too. Also, they just said they'll soon give me a 2 week heads up before the meet. So keep the ideas coming people!

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 13th June 2013 at 13:50.
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Old 13th June 2013, 13:40   #105
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Most folks here who complain about reliability of Tata cars are speaking about the long term reliability, after covering around 80-100k km. Maintenance expenses for an Indica seems to be increasing drastically once the car covers around 80k, when compared to the competition. Not too sure about the 'magic number' for other Tata vehicles but I know a few Safari owners too who are calling TASS every week for some issue or the other.
Well, as a first-version Indica owner, I can say its not just long term reliability. We got the Indica V2 in 2001 (I think). First day, we drove around town, someone held the little handle inside the passenger door. It broke. Ok, that must be an one-off. Three days later, the A/C knob came off. We asked Tata service to fix it and they said we'd need to change the entire A/C fascia. Well then. About 2 weeks later, the seat-belt clip side came loose.

Yep. Long term reliability would be one. But when you buy a car, at least let the first 90 days be a good experience. Maybe, Tata has come a long way since then (never owned a Tata car after that) but still that impression on me will never let me buy another Tata car. Sorry.

Now, Jaguar OTOH..
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