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Old 17th June 2013, 11:22   #121
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by ritz3645 View Post
Wow what an effect teamveevee.

Tata Motors to allow only its brand vehicles to be parked inside the company

Source http://articles.economictimes.indiat...lot-ford-india

(Sorry I could not stop myself as it came out yesterday and no one posted)
Thanks ritz3645;3151220, i personally dont like this restriction is the right way to go. Instead they should have provided incentives to buy Tata branded vehicles.
Once i visited a Toyota plant in US, they showed us a workshop and petrol bunk inside the plant. Employees could repair their Vehicles free of charge at the factory workshop inside the plant. Also they get free petrol(some limitations apply) to encourage the use of the car.
Also the purchase schemes should not be restricted to just employees, their dads and spouses also should be encouraged to buy Tata vehicles. Some companies extend these schemes to their vendors and vendors employees too. What do neighbors think, when a Tata Employee's dad drives a brand new Maruti?
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Old 17th June 2013, 11:55   #122
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

^ Horrible news. Though I am aware that some companies in India do have strict policy on getting a bit too stubborn by forcing their products on their staffs, they however must realize that their employees have the right to change the company too. Hence, products like cars can be like a very long term investment for many average income grade people and they cannot change cars when they switch companies.

Slightly OT, but the culture in some companies is such that a friend of mine who was working with a Telcom co. was snatched of his phone for 2 days for using services of another telco.

Quote:
"as a first step, we shall only Tata Vehicles to enter the premises. All the non-Tata Vehicles will have to be parked outside the (commercial vehicle business unit) CVBU gate in a parking lot,"" said the circular signed by the head of Tata Motors Pune plant.
They might be embarassed to see too many Marutis, Hyundais & Hondas around in their parking lot but it will be even more embarrassing when they will see empty parking lots inside the company & overflowing lots outside.

Quote:
"It is a common practice in the automotive industry. Tata Motors has never done this before; they have always been democratic with regards to brands its employees buy. This move has been necessitated to infuse confidence in the brand led by its own employees," a person close to Tata Motors explained.
So they agree that what they are doing is un-democratic.
BTW, who gave this idea to KS?
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Old 17th June 2013, 12:50   #123
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

@GrammarNazi : Thanks for the link.

I fully appreciate what TATA Motors is trying to do, with the ban on non-TATA cars on-campus, but I'm trying to figure out,
(a) why they thought now is the best time for this - the public knows that TATA Motors is in a bit of a tight spot &
(b) why they they didn't do it, a little more discreetly

If they had to do it now, did they have an option to make their employees offers (on TATA cars) that they-couldn't-refuse(!), which made buying a TATA car as VFM (for an employee) as say, a Maruti, that he/she currently owns - and wait for a while?

Now, if TATA Motors had already been running such offers for considerable periods now, and their employees still did not buy TATA cars, then, asking them to park their Marutis outside, is not going to address our core problem, is it? Not to mention, bad for morale!

Anyway, I guess there's not much point in our discussing a decision that's already made, and I, for one, am an outsider.

I wish them Good Luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
AFAIK, Cyrus Mistry uses a Manza, http://articles.economictimes.indiat...-of-tata-group

The workers can probably park their cars outside. Is it too much to ask your employees to trust the brand they work for? Couldn't be much of a hassle. Anyway.
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Old 17th June 2013, 16:58   #124
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Break Tata Motors into 3 distinct brands- TATA- A, B and C

Tata-A- Truck segment
Tata-B- Commercial Vehicles- includes anything from Magic to Indica. Even the label on the Car should read as Tata-B only.
Tata-C- Purely Passenger Vehicles.

* There should be no overlapping in terms of offerings between segment B and C.
* Also it gives the freedom for Tata to design to Customer requirements. For eg Tata-B will be very spacious and with excellent mileage, while Tata-C can be ultra modern with great interiors, powerful engine etc.
* Common platforms can be shared to reduce costs, but the end product in terms of looks should be distinct.
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Old 17th June 2013, 20:38   #125
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by ritz3645 View Post
Tata Motors to allow only its brand vehicles to be parked inside the company
This has been the case with Hyundai right from the beginning. If you are in a non-Hyundai car, you park outside the gate and then you will be driven inside in a Hyundai car or a Hyundai van. This was true even if you were a bigwig, you got a better Hyundai.
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Old 17th June 2013, 21:42   #126
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

I don't think there's anything to be upset about Tata Motors' policy regarding employee cars. It's not too much to ask for brand loyalty from employees. And Tata hasn't forbidden it's workers from buying other brands, they just don't want them to flaunt it. What if someone took a photo of the Tata Motors parking lot and there more Marutis than Tatas? It screws up morale to see even Tata workers preferring other brands. This is something that should have been done a long time ago.

Can someone who works at Tata Motors or any auto plant give some info on the kind of discounts that an employee gets? I feel this would put things more into perspective.
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Old 18th June 2013, 09:12   #127
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

As someone mentioned here, I think its ridiculously funny that Tata is crowd-sourcing this. A simple alternative would be for Karl and the Tata Motors management to drive a Tata Indica for 3 months. That would give them more than enough ideas on how to (or how NOT to) build a car.
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Old 18th June 2013, 10:26   #128
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
I don't think there's anything to be upset about Tata Motors' policy regarding employee cars. It's not too much to ask for brand loyalty from employees. And Tata hasn't forbidden it's workers from buying other brands, they just don't want them to flaunt it. What if someone took a photo of the Tata Motors parking lot and there more Marutis than Tatas? It screws up morale to see even Tata workers preferring other brands. This is something that should have been done a long time ago.

Can someone who works at Tata Motors or any auto plant give some info on the kind of discounts that an employee gets? I feel this would put things more into perspective.
Agree with Vivek that watching more of competitor's cars in your own backyard would screw your morale but rather than burying your head in sand, it would have been better if Tata Motors go a step forward & try to find out that why even their employees are not preferring Tata cars. It's like a good sample for survey in their own organization.
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Old 18th June 2013, 12:26   #129
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

TATA - Please make a fresh car(use Jaguar designers), your designs sucks big time.
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Old 18th June 2013, 12:31   #130
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

OK how about this:

There is an owner of a TATA Aria on TBhp who has had to keep his vehicle in the service centre for 9 months another one for 77 days and another one for 60+ days. We are talking about 25+ visits to the service centre in less than 2.5 years.
Also no one from TATA spoke to this person who had to suffer 9 months (in multiple instalments) while the vehicle was in the service centre. This is their Top model and we are talking about top variant again in all these cases. There are two more dissatisfied owners of this top of the line vehicle on TBHP itself.

Multiple Storme have had door latch issue with the new units. (considering that the body is essentially the same and that this is based on the Aria platform and just the door handles have been changed it is odd to see this kind of defects from the factory itself. The corner hinge Plastic cap of the new Storme driver seat keeps popping out in some many of the new vehicles.

Manza had poor quality switch gear in the first iteration. When they improved the quality later why did they not replace the units from the customers who trusted TATA enough to go for the vehicle among the early customer.

Essentially Quality is a major issue and though their service centre are doing quite well the product quality is really poor. They are not managing the customer side as well as they can though the intention may be there.
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Old 20th June 2013, 15:50   #131
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

Apart from the QC, i see that the depreciation happens more due to the tolerance which they give in the mechanical components say like a 50 mm of bush with 0.2 mm of tolerance would give more niggles than a same bush with 0.05 mm tolerance, this would improve the quality automatically and also the grade of the steel has to be kept in mind to reduce the depreciation.

Also i see all the Tata vehicles have the same face :( for me the indica, vista, marina, manza, Aria looks same, the concept have to change the perception of the tata badge.

Hope this makes sense
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Old 20th June 2013, 18:11   #132
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Agree with Vivek that watching more of competitor's cars in your own backyard would screw your morale but rather than burying your head in sand, it would have been better if Tata Motors go a step forward & try to find out that why even their employees are not preferring Tata cars. It's like a good sample for survey in their own organization.
Tata was one of the very few companies in India (the other one being M&M) which allowed employees to bring other brands of cars and park in the office parking lot.

None of the other OEMs including MSIL, Honda or Hyundai let an employee bring a car outside their stable to office.

Most OEMs give some employee discounts in addition to what is going on in the market (I remember getting a 20K additional discount on my Ritz), but Tata gives much more discounts than any other OEM to its employees (please don't ask me to put a number here, because I have never worked for TML).

It may be bad timing and a step out of desperation to sell a few more cars, but I don't see anything wrong in what Tata is doing. This is the case with 2 wheeler companies too. If you work for TVS, you can park only a TVS 2 wheeler in the employee parking.

And this is not just the case in India. At Suzuki Japan, you cannot take any 2 wheeler or 4 wheeler into the office parking lot unless it is a Suzuki.

As a Tata car owner, I have only 3 requests to TML for their next car.

(1) Don't build a car which is a jack-of-all, master-of-none. Build something desirable, even if its slightly expensive. Build something which is exceptional in 2 or 3 things (let us say styling, driving pleasure and quality!).

Focus on fresh styling (you don't need to put the same smiling grill and Christmas tree lights on every car you build) which does not scream Tata. You don't have a 100 year legacy of building cars that you have to have a 'family face' for your cars!! Even if it is a little short on head-room, make it look really good. The Swift and Dzire do not sell for their huge boots and enormous space.

(2) Focus on quality - shut-lines, premium soft-to-touch materials, consistency in manufacturing, good QC, good ergonomics, and please validate everything BEFORE you start dispatching the first lot of cars to the dealers. Give all the goodies in the first go - don't wait for 3 years to launch a variant with ABS. And work with strict deadlines - product launches should not be postponed for ages as prospective customers lose interest waiting for the launch.

(3) Don't build 15 different variants of the same model. Keep it simple. Don't confuse your customers.

Have a uniform nomenclature for all your models (like the L, V, Z for MSIL). Giving more value for money does not necessarily mean overloading the car with stuff that does not last very long or work very well. Give things which work really well, for many years.

That is the end of my rant.
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Old 20th June 2013, 18:20   #133
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Default Re: Ideas for the next Tata Car (Ideator)

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That is the end of my rant.
Very admirable post there Viju. Though, I do not agree with the views of car manufacturer restricting other brands in their parking lots, be it Tata or Maruti or Honda/ Suzuki. It is undemocratic & more so needless. However, for Tata, it must be hurting little more than the Maruti for obvious reasons.

Coming to what your ideas are to Tata as a manufacturer, you hit the nail absolutely on its head. Summed up nicely in a few lines.

Esp. liked the following: (I am using your words in verbatim but not quoting you, hence its no plagiarism I suppose)

1.Build something desirable, even if its slightly expensive. Build something which is exceptional in 2 or 3 things (let us say styling, driving pleasure and quality!)

2.Give all the goodies in the first go - don't wait for 3 years to launch a variant with ABS. And work with strict deadlines - product launches should not be postponed for ages as prospective customers lose interest waiting for the launch.

3.Don't build 15 different variants of the same model. Keep it simple. Don't confuse your customers.

I think, the above 3 are bare minimum for TML to achieve & keep their flag flying.

Thanks,
Saket

Last edited by saket77 : 20th June 2013 at 18:22.
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Old 21st June 2013, 02:39   #134
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Hey everyone! I've been given a chance to personally meet the current MD of TATA MOTORS (Mr. Karl Slym) to generally discuss cars & suggest ideas about the next Tata car....
GrammarNazi,
Please do not forget to update us on how the meeting goes.
Thanks,
Sree
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Old 21st June 2013, 08:52   #135
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Originally Posted by sreepy View Post

GrammarNazi,
Please do not forget to update us on how the meeting goes.
Thanks,
Sree
Lol, ofcourse! I'd never forget to update here.

I'm still to get confirmation on timelines. Will definitely keep the thread updated, was a bit busy with a hectic work schedule over the week.

Btw, everyones thoughts on the Horizonext concept are most welcome! I liked it & feel they're definitely bent upon trying to improve their products in the short term. In the long term, I hope/expect some great designs & high quality products from TATA, but that's in 2015.

-Rgds.

P.S. : Appreciate the response from everyone, I'm keen on consolidating & reporting them. Will probably put up that in a post right before the meet. Ofcourse with all due credit etc. Keep 'em coming everyone! Thanks!

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 21st June 2013 at 09:00.
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