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Old 10th June 2013, 18:21   #16
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Yes I do, having had the Sumo which is still sold in the same version we go a decade ago. I said the majority of cars sold come without any safety features, nothing about certain export versions meeting minimum safety standards in overseas markets.

I agree with the breaking part about the Nano/Alto which is why I said their cars are not the last word in safety.

The quadricycle is just another category which will be more of an auto alternative than anything aspirational. Autos won't hold up in a high speed crash and they are not meant to, neither does a premium hatch if pushed to its top speed. Safety add ons work at a specified speed anything else is just luck. The only thing that can dissuade this kind of product is a higher insurance premium and a lower payout in case of a claim.
So now you propose quadricycles which are even lower on safety than the 800 or Sumo, because we have cars like them running. Sorry I am not prepared to see these ill designed contraptions on the road, I dont want to get into trouble if one of them hits my car and the occupants get injured or at worse die because their quad crumpled around them.
Bajaj quad is an industrial mass production of the desi jugaad. If allowed, we may as well allow elephants to be ridden on the freeways.
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Old 10th June 2013, 18:51   #17
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

I first had a Bajaj Caliber, a Boxer, and then a XCD. My father earlier had a Chetak. Despite such a strong Bajaj lining of two-wheelers in the family, I have a strong dislike for Rajiv Bajaj. Reason: No respect for customers money.

Every other day it is same story with Bajaj. Launch a bike in the morning, declare that between 13:15pm-13:23pm, their newly launched bike sold more than Hero Splendor in Street X of City Y. Launch a variant by 4pm, and at 5pm declare that there is yet another UG2x of the model for tomorrow and discontinue it by end-of-day. Leave the customers in lurch for spare parts for the rest of life, and make him take a huge hit in terms of the resale value. Why be bothered about that customer when you get new customers for the UG2x version of the model.

Now, go back to the building stages of this so-called Re60. First, draw in Nissan and Renault. Then remove them from design phase. Take the engine of phased out Pulsar 200 and put it RE and add the 4th wheel and call it a quadri-cycle when the original intent was Nano competitor.

I want a strong TVS back and Bajaj to stop relaunching its bikes day-a-dozen.
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Old 10th June 2013, 21:40   #18
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti View Post
Now reducing the speed of the car to make it 'safe' is an argument that's not easy to grasp. What happens if a seat belt/air bag equipped car hit this thing at 100 kmph ?
Urban speed limit is only 40kmph. I guess his intention is to sell the quadricycle as a cheaper form of urban transport for a family which can't afford to manintain a car, and not as a highway vehicle.
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Sorry I am not prepared to see these ill designed contraptions on the road, I dont want to get into trouble if one of them hits my car and the occupants get injured or at worse die because their quad crumpled around them.
His question is when this contraption can be granted licence as a public transport vehicle, why not allow it to be used as a private carrier. His question makes sense because your laws even allow a 3 wheeled autorickshaw as private vehicle, but when he adds a fourth wheel and makes it a little more stable you won't allow it.

Last edited by Daewood : 10th June 2013 at 21:57.
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Old 11th June 2013, 19:57   #19
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Lot of three wheeled autorikshaws are seen in Kerala roads which runs as private vehicles and have white license plates. Then why deny it to Bajaj's new thingy.
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Old 11th June 2013, 21:30   #20
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Completely self serving and selfish arguments from Mr. Bajaj. The three wheeler division of Bajaj USA relic from per-lib era that has survived on some luck and such savy and selfish arguments from people like Mr. Bajaj. Others like Amby and Padmini thankfully perished or became insignificant much earlier.

Safety is truly a concern with three wheelers and Tata nano's and alto's can very easily replace autos in most Indian cities without a lot of pushback from even the most price sensitive user segment. Yes an auto is cheaper, but also does not have as long a life as a car and the driving ergonomics take a heavy toll on auto rickshaw driver's wrists and ankles and lower back. Mr. Bajaj needs to explain what moral high standards he sees in shamelessly selling a decades old product without any investment in R&D and product s elopement while exploiting a monopoly status in the market.
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Old 11th June 2013, 22:58   #21
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by bobbafett View Post
Completely self serving and selfish arguments from Mr. Bajaj. The three wheeler division of Bajaj USA relic from per-lib era that has survived on some luck and such savy and selfish arguments from people like Mr. Bajaj. Others like Amby and Padmini thankfully perished or became insignificant much earlier.

Safety is truly a concern with three wheelers and Tata nano's and alto's can very easily replace autos in most Indian cities without a lot of pushback from even the most price sensitive user segment. Yes an auto is cheaper, but also does not have as long a life as a car and the driving ergonomics take a heavy toll on auto rickshaw driver's wrists and ankles and lower back. Mr. Bajaj needs to explain what moral high standards he sees in shamelessly selling a decades old product without any investment in R&D and product s elopement while exploiting a monopoly status in the market.
Fully agree with your sentiment, I think exactly the same, it is industrialists like Mr Rajiv Bajaj and more importantly his father Rahul who wanted to keep India under the licence raj because it suited them to sell rusty Bajaj scooters with a waiting list of several months and black market dealings for buying them. Infact there was a couple of models of Bajaj scooters which could be bought only by paying foreign exchange!!! Talk about ethics from such people.

Also it is a myth that the Bajaj autorickshaw is cheap. Ex showroom price of a new Auto is approx 2.1 lacs in Mumbai, couple that with the rickshaw permit and high interest loans, the autowallas are in eternal debt!! A basic Nano without A/C is cheaper. No wonder Mr. Bajaj refuses to kill his cash cow, the rickshaw
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Old 11th June 2013, 23:27   #22
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

I wish I could take Bajaj seriously, given the the state of the stuck in the past humble Indian auto, one can't help but be cynical about the words.

Manufacturers have a big role to change things and the way people think, they can provide leadership, and Bajaj has focused squarely on profit over everything else, fair call, but then don't pretend to talk about far off concepts like innovation.

The auto is given its bare basics is a hotbed of possibilities, better comfort, better engineering, better driver comfort given how long drives sit in them, better safety, better design, better structure, better interiors, better components, and some things won't even need too much investment, just some thinking. But no, since its a captive market Bajaj continues to peddle a extremely sub standard product at pretty high prices.

The auto is used in urban areas, doesn't have to go fast, can carry 3 passengers, why is it not electric yet for instance.

Last edited by raul : 11th June 2013 at 23:29.
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Old 12th June 2013, 10:29   #23
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Quadricycles should be allowed, safe or not safe, taxi or private!
As a taxi it would be better than the current crop of bare bone indicas, etc (taxi spec variants) with
poor upkeep (bald tires, missing wheel nuts, etc) and profit oriented drivers drivish rashly(given the higher speeds they are capable of)
Since the top speed would be limited they might be somewhat safer than current taxis, and infinitely safer than autos.
..and since they would be 4 wheelers with a proper steering wheel rather than a handle bar, the drivers would find it more difficult to
kamikaze in and out of gaps (like the current auto drivers do).
But, the above statement of mine doesn't take away from the fact that the current auto's are and so would be these quadricycles, a headache for other road users.
As a private vehicle it would be safer than two wheelers as 4 wheels are always stable than 2. But two wheeler drivers demand much more
from their personal transport vehicle(FE, maintenance costs, upfront costs,kamikaziness, etc) for them to bite the bullet. A calculation in
which Mr.Tata failed miserably.
And anyways life in India is cheap, people will die one way or the another, quadricycle too can jump in the fray to make journey of Indians to
swarg/nark simpler. Jugads are thriving!
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Old 12th June 2013, 12:39   #24
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Fully agree with your sentiment, I think exactly the same, it is industrialists like Mr Rajiv Bajaj and more importantly his father Rahul who wanted to keep India under the licence raj because it suited them to sell rusty Bajaj scooters with a waiting list of several months and black market dealings for buying them.
Bajaj was not the only company which had a licence to make scooters in India during the Licence permit raj, but the waiting period was only for bajaj scooters due to it's superior quality compared to peers. In fact Rahul Bajaj manufactured more scooters than he was permitted to by the licence he had, and the GOI slapped a case on him. He went public saying that he was prepared to go to jail for producing more for his countrymen and the case was finally withdrawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raul View Post
The auto is used in urban areas, doesn't have to go fast, can carry 3 passengers, why is it not electric yet for instance.
How many amongst us who commute predominantly in urban areas, have dumped our petrol/diesel cars as soon as the Reva NXG was launched?
Expecting an autowallah who earns a paltry 15k per month to spend much more on a cleaner technology while we contiue to pollute as ever is not fair.

Last edited by Daewood : 12th June 2013 at 12:58.
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Old 12th June 2013, 13:00   #25
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

The solution is to look ahead. Just because Autos are still in production does not mean we should do the same when we can do better. Safety should be top priority. If Nano can meet the safety requirements and cost much the same as the current Autos, why cant the new ones meet the same requirements?
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Old 12th June 2013, 14:29   #26
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

[quote=raul;3146631]The auto is given its bare basics is a hotbed of possibilities, better comfort, better engineering, better driver comfort given how long drives sit in them, better safety, better design, better structure, better interiors, better components, and some things won't even need too much investment, just some thinking. But no, since its a captive market Bajaj continues to peddle a extremely sub standard product at pretty high prices.quote]

Dear friend,

Adding to all that, did you forget to add "Bigger elective power" as these vehicles are largely operated by lower strata of our society

Without going in deeper, would like to stress that end of the day likes of Bajaj may get what they want. After all, lobbying wins in a democratic country such as ours. Now lets see who has more power (lobbying)

Andy
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Old 12th June 2013, 15:41   #27
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

I still remember having read one of his interviews wherein a foreign publisher asked him after visiting his plant - your team did not show me your R & D centre (this was in 1980s).

And the answer of Mr. Bajaj was - we don't have one ! we just have a dispatch center.

Well that's how he made money from trader to a known manufacturer and now he is talking about technology in the quadricycle !!!

He should not be comparing his product with German manufacturers atleast, they have spent tons of Time & Euros in reserach and development.

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Old 12th June 2013, 15:56   #28
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Help me understand, I thought the Quadricycle proposal by Bajaj was a 3-wheeler rick with 4 wheels and a steering may be a wee bit more powerful engine. If my assumption is right, how safe are these 3-wheeler ricks and what is Bajaj doing to make them safer as a Quadricycle. Be it urban or rural commuter, its a safety hazard.

If these quadricycles are sold as private or the public, our aam admi is going to buy these and bring them on the highway and hog the right most lane. I am already pissed about these Tata Ace and Piaggo share autos that are allowed on the highways. The way its driven on the highways its a safety disaster for all other road users. I hope the authorities will do something to stop this from getting to production!
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:04   #29
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

There is already the 4-wheeled magic iris from Tata. If the Nano is cheaper than the Bajaj auto rickshaw, the magic iris should definetly be far cheaper. inspite of that, why hasnt this vehicle sold well ? after all it should be "far safer" than the auto.

when we have fish carts running with old jawa/yezdi engines, chopped bullets with a rear passenger seat ferrying people in many towns in the North, noisy Ape "share autos" terrorising the people in Chennai with "passengers" spilling over from all openings of the auto, why suddenly this outrage on Bajaj ?

Is it because we have so many who love TATA or Maruti and we dont want their sales to be affected ?

Last edited by narayan : 12th June 2013 at 16:07.
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Old 12th June 2013, 17:02   #30
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

On a partially unrelated note, I came across this yesterday. Thought you guys may like it - http://www.topgear.com/uk/richard-ha...ers-2013-06-07
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