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Old 19th June 2013, 16:13   #76
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Originally Posted by Viju View Post
This may be OT for this thread..

Yes, mostly, in the design phase, the body is designed to meet crash requirements. This usually requires a lot of reinforcements in the weld body. When it comes to the domestic variants, these are removed from all areas possible (to reduce cost and weight obviously). Therefore, even if the cars 'look' the same from the outside, what goes inside is very very different.

I don't think this is OT - since the topic is about Bajaj lashing out on competitors, particularly countering safety aspects and comparing his quadricycle with other cars plying here - I think it is very relevant.

Safety is an important issue for us and understanding it fully really helps.

And thanks Viju for bringing this aspect for discussion. Very valid point I would say!

Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Crash handling is because of crumple zones, crushable hoods, bonnets, pedistrian safe bumpers etc, I believe once these are frozen on a car, it becomes expensive for them to be removed to localize the car to India. If the makers pass NCAP tests then the car is certified to meet certian safety standards, which still hold good in India.
Sorry, my friend. What you say is needed for better crash handling, but is not the whole story. Actually there are three parts to it.

1) The center cage - this is the place where we all sit; it shouldn't deform or crumple - and THE MOST IMPORTANT barrier in protecting the occupants;
2) The crumple zones - this is what all the good things you've mentioned above; the outer zones designed to minimize impact travelling to the center cage;
3) Active/Passive assists - the seat belt, SRS, ABS, etc, etc; the equipments helping to reduce or avoid the impact if possible.

What Viju mentioned is about reinforcements done (or lack of them in cars made for here) to boost # 1 and 2 mentioned above.
For example, Suzuki Splash sold in UK has side-impact protection beams and foot well protection zones while Maruti Ritz sold here skimps on them big time (this affects #1 above). Similarly, the bumpers are filled with energy absorbing foams, while the ones here are mere plastic shell (this affects #2 above). There are so many such 'invisible' areas where costs (and corners) are cut between the "export" version and "desi" one!

Kudos to Viju again for bringing this out!!!

Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Regarding quadricyles, sorry Europe or India both dont have any safety standards for them. In Europe they are clubbed with recreational vehicles like gokarts to be used off road only.
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Exactly; and they are promoting this vehicle with the placard in had 'used in Europe'. Why don't they say HOW it is used? Europeans, who are safety maniacs, would never commute in such a vehicle and we are thinking it to make it a public transport system?
Sorry buddies, but not exactly how you have portrayed above. While I was in Netherlands, one of my neighbour - an old man - had an Aixam and used it for all his errands, running around in The Hague. That apart, I have seen lot of Smart (for two), Seat and Peugoet micro cars plying around within city (they still have trams running along the roads, so you can guess)! However, I don't remember seeing them on their expressways.

EDIT: Even such 'cars' were allowed to be parked perpendicular in a parallel parking slot (thus two can park in one 'normal' slot). This was in 2008,09. Hope that still prevails.

Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
An incumbent industrialist wants to manipulate the governance structure to accommodate the antique technology he can offer, instead of making products that comply with existing governance.

This is the sort of nonsense that used to happen in the License Raj era - if it occurs again in this day and age, then we seriously need to think in terms of opening our market COMPLETELY to competent foreign manufacturers. Else such parasites will continue to thrive.
One big difference between the 'license raj' era and now is that, there are multiple segments and many models available in each segment. So, people have choices. Well, not within so called 'quadricycle' category - that too for the time being, but otherwise!

PS: While I support the 'quadricyle' as a category, I don't support Rajiv Bajaj's take on his fellow industrialists. That looks cheap, rude and plain stupid.

Last edited by GunMo : 19th June 2013 at 16:28. Reason: Additional points on EU norms for quadricycles.
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Old 21st June 2013, 06:33   #77
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

My parents live in a small town where the 3 wheeler rick dominates as a form of public transport.
In my efforts to surprise my parents I have travelled in them quite a bit over a distance of 10 kms each time.

The first time I travelled there were 11 people in the rick. I thought that guy was mad and told him to get moving, but he waited for 10 minutes till he got all 11 people on board. Same is the case with all the other drivers. Depending on the rush the occupancy would come to an average of 7 people.
I am 6'2" so you can imagine my plight over the journey in a contraption without doors or a roof for that matter.

Also, the max speed which the vehicle could reach was around 20km/h I guess.

Long story short, the below points come to mind when I think of this quadcycle:

1. Fully loaded the max speed of the quad would be marginally more than the 3 wheeled rick. I think that is a major concern. In my town atleast, these things use the Grand Trunk Road for a major part of the journey at 20 km/h. That is too slow for a highway and it does cause congestion and accidents due to sudden lane changes. Due to the limited horse power they have been known to roll back on flyovers. This causes accidents as well.

2. Why didnt Mr. Bajaj think of replacing the ricks with the quad instead of pushing for a new category? Does consumer safety not feature in the company agenda at all?

Frankly, I dont have a lot of respect for Mr. Bajaj or Bajaj Auto.

Lastly, this is another case of misreading the economy and buyer preferences. One part of me wants Bajaj to part with a whole lot of cash to get it the permit and then see it fail.
Indians prefer conventional looks and have a reluctance to embrace change, unlike Europe for example.
Also, we have been clichéd as "cheap" so much that most of us dont want to associate ourselves with anything that carries that tag.

That's the reason why Nano under performs in the market in spite of being a very capable product for the money as most people dont bother to check it out, thanks to the "cheapest car in the world" tag.

If I was in Tata, I would support Bajaj's quad, pass on this cheapest car label and use the failure of the RE60 to highlight the merits of the Nano. Change the marketing strategy to "Cheap, But not that cheap"

Rant over!
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Old 27th June 2013, 16:21   #78
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Saw the crumbled auto in the below post (in the Accidents thread) and the first thing to come to my mind was Rajiv Bajaj's arguments.


If RE60 would also suffer a similar fate in an encounter with a sub-5L small car, its high time we have some safety regulations in place even for autos and quadricycles. Argument that Bajaj gives is that these vehicles would be driven at max 30-35km/h. What if the other vehicle is at 70km/h which is allowed for cars in highways? After all, we cannot restrict these vehicles to be plying only in by-lanes and city roads if they are allowed to be registered private vehicles, most highway collisions are likely to end up in a similar state.
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Old 4th July 2013, 17:50   #79
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Among all this debate, Bajaj aims to launch its RE60 by the end of current financial year.

"As the product does not fit into any of the existing category of vehicles, the government needs to add a new section in the Central Motor Vehicle Rules (CMVR) before the vehicle can be introduced on Indian roads" Bajaj itself stated.

News can be found here:

Last edited by saket77 : 4th July 2013 at 17:50. Reason: typo
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