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Old 10th June 2013, 13:00   #1
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Default Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

In an hard hitting interview Mr.Bajaj lists the reasons why his quadricycle was denied permit to be sold as private vehicle and also why low speed vehicles are a better idea for urban transport.

Some excerpts
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Quote:
We faced no objection at the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (Siam) from Hyundai, Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and the German car makers. They were clear that they were not in the three-wheeler business with an additional wheel — it’s not their business. Mahindra & Mahindra supported us and even tried to get a consensus among members, because they saw it as an opportunity. Three companies are battling against us. On the one side are TVS and Tata Motors. They, too, want to get into this space and are afraid Bajaj will get ahead. They want to delay the process, so that approval comes in two or three years, by when they would be ready.
Quote:
Bhargava says he has no problem with quadricycles being used as taxis because that won’t affect Maruti Suzuki. If you travel on a quadricycle as a passenger, that’s okay; but if you own one, you cannot travel because the same vehicle becomes unsafe. That is a selfish point of view and has nothing to do with the society’s good.
Quote:
One way is to wait for the electric car to come one day. But our essential contention is that if you want to solve the emission problem, it is not the engine you have to attack, but the rest of the vehicle. So, for instance, if we want a smaller engine, this could raise safety issues. Unwind the clock and you will see that the safety issue comes in the first place, because you want cars to go faster. Therefore, we have said our four-wheeler will not go faster than 70 kmph and will have half the emission of a car. We have taken it back 50 years and our motto is going back to the future. After all, the average speed in city traffic around the world varies from 30 to 50 kmph.
Link to the full interview
http://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/for-tata-and-tvs-it-s-a-story-of-sour-grapes-for-maruti-it-s-the-fear-of-getting-sandwiched-113060900168_1.html

Last edited by Daewood : 10th June 2013 at 13:16.
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Old 10th June 2013, 15:14   #2
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Even Mr Bajaj is an opportunist. They are all trying to make money. Maruti and Tata will be affected by it and are stating the obvious. But a 3 wheeler auto can still be bought as a private vehicle today.
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Old 10th June 2013, 15:25   #3
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Rajiv Bajaj is an opportunist, make no mistake. He speaks as if he is on some environmental mission instead of trying to maximize profits. Half the pollution of a car is still pollution enough compared to a public transport vehicle like a bus.
His autos are the primary cause for accidents and traffic snarls along with his two wheelers, in almost all Indian cities.
Take Mumbai for example: From Sion and Bandra southwards, since autos are not permitted, the traffic is more disiplined compared to the suburbs where these monsters move about. Does he have an answer to this?
Also quadricycles will be very slow moving and will hold up traffic on free moving highways and flyovers like how the autos do, not to mention cause more accidents, being unsafe as they are.
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Old 10th June 2013, 15:27   #4
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
His autos are the primary cause for accidents and traffic snarls along with his two wheelers, in almost all Indian cities.
Take Mumbai for example: From Sion and Bandra southwards, since autos are not permitted, the traffic is more disiplined compared to the suburbs where these monsters move about. Does he have an answer to this?
Blame the drivers, not the manufacturer.
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Old 10th June 2013, 15:31   #5
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Blame the drivers, not the manufacturer.
Not true. Drivers are to be blamed ofcourse, take for example cab drivers. However autos are very slow, underpowered and breakdown frequently especially in heavy rains. These cause traffic snarls, which may be due to their slow clumsy nature, rather than the lane cutting antics of the drivers themselves.
What prevents Bajaj from making a higher powered auto to move with faster moving traffic? Ofcourse the very fact that these tin boxes are very unsafe, with no active or passive safety features. So is it not high time to junk three wheelers and quadricycles and go in for proper 4 wheelers?
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Old 10th June 2013, 15:32   #6
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Frankly then why not have the TATA Nano replace all the 3 wheeler Autorickshaws that Bajaj makes? A much more safer and even cheaper proposition than the quad that is proposed.

All have their reasons but really speaking there is no reason to allow this on the Roads as a private vehicle (especially considering the other traffic.) Infact we should move towards replacing the three wheeler Rick with some think better like the Nano (which Bajaj too can make) not the quadricycle.
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Old 10th June 2013, 15:53   #7
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Mr. Bajaj is talking bull****.

Quote:
Unwind the clock and you will see that the safety issue comes in the first place, because you want cars to go faster. Therefore, we have said our four-wheeler will not go faster than 70 kmph and will have half the emission of a car. We have taken it back 50 years and our motto is going back to the future. After all, the average speed in city traffic around the world varies from 30 to 50 kmph. We want our four-wheeler to drive comfortably at 30-50 kmph, with a top speed of 70 km.
This is a ridiculous reason not to include crumple zones. It IS a safety concern and the concern is valid. Crumple zones, seatbelts save majority of the people from death in case of an accident. Airbags are secondary.

Does he have any concern where there is a head-on collision and the other vehicle was traveling fast?

Autos should have banned long back in the first place. But it is not possible because livelihood of lots of people is at stake. And not to mention the lobbying.

Quote:
We have put in a lot of technology. We have a fuel-injected engine from Bosch, like the BMW. The Nano does not have it. It is a water-cooled engine. It has four valves per cylinder, like the Merc. It has three spark plugs per cylinder, while the Nano has only one; even the Merc does not have. So, it is not like we are putting in the same three-wheeler engine. We have more technology than the Nano.
Comparing his engine with BMW and Merc? Utter non-sense. Even Merc does not have three spark plugs. LOL!

With almost all Bajaj vehicles going DTS-i, I was wondering why the Auto Rick was left out. Now I know the answer. That great technology was reserved for RE60!

Last edited by blue_pulsar : 10th June 2013 at 15:57.
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Old 10th June 2013, 16:11   #8
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Not true. Drivers are to be blamed ofcourse, take for example cab drivers. However autos are very slow, underpowered and breakdown frequently especially in heavy rains. These cause traffic snarls, which may be due to their slow clumsy nature, rather than the lane cutting antics of the drivers themselves.
What prevents Bajaj from making a higher powered auto to move with faster moving traffic? Ofcourse the very fact that these tin boxes are very unsafe, with no active or passive safety features. So is it not high time to junk three wheelers and quadricycles and go in for proper 4 wheelers?
Big, expensive German sedans are notorious for breakdowns during a heavy downpour, that doesn't mean BMW gets blamed for making cars that don't wade through half a metre or water. The reason why Bajaj couldn't be bothered with more powerful machines is that this segment is really price sensitive. Higher auto fares mean bad publicity and no politician is going to push for changes that result in autos and auto fares getting more expensive.

Most 4 wheelers sold by Tata and Maruti are tin cans without any safety features, in fact to get a new category or quadricycles all one has to do is ask both these manufacturers what their defintion of a car is. Reminds me of TG's(mag) definition of Omni - has seats and and an engine - must be a car then!.
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Old 10th June 2013, 16:25   #9
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Big, expensive German sedans are notorious for breakdowns during a heavy downpour, that doesn't mean BMW gets blamed for making cars that don't wade through half a metre or water. The reason why Bajaj couldn't be bothered with more powerful machines is that this segment is really price sensitive. Higher auto fares mean bad publicity and no politician is going to push for changes that result in autos and auto fares getting more expensive.

Most 4 wheelers sold by Tata and Maruti are tin cans without any safety features, in fact to get a new category or quadricycles all one has to do is ask both these manufacturers what their defintion of a car is. Reminds me of TG's(mag) definition of Omni - has seats and and an engine - must be a car then!.
Very offtopic argument from you, but hey it takes all kinds. So you want to compare BMW to an auto, or call Maruti/Tata cars as tincans with same safety features as an auto.
I wonder why big companies waste money on crash testing, providing abs, airbags or seatbelts, since a basic car and an auto have same safety features as you put it.
I am sure Bajaj auto will be very pleased had our ministers thought the same
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Old 10th June 2013, 16:36   #10
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

These corporates are no saints. They are here to make money and wouldn't care less for anything else. Now reducing the speed of the car to make it 'safe' is an argument that's not easy to grasp. What happens if a seat belt/air bag equipped car hit this thing at 100 kmph ?

I for one, do not take these antics seriously. If you have a innovative product/platform that advances technology, I'm all ears, not for your boardroom politics.
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Old 10th June 2013, 16:44   #11
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Very offtopic argument from you, but hey it takes all kinds. So you want to compare BMW to an auto, or call Maruti/Tata cars as tincans with same safety features as an auto.
I wonder why big companies waste money on crash testing, providing abs, airbags or seatbelts, since a basic car and an auto have same safety features as you put it.
I am sure Bajaj auto will be very pleased had our ministers thought the same
The context was about blaming the manufacturer, not if an auto was the same as a BMW. The big companies spend R&D on safety, Tata or Maruti do not come to mind when I think of safety. I can safely say that the majority of products sold by either of these companies come without any modern safety kit.

There is no reason to believe these contraptions will crowd out our roads, the Nano was supposed to do the same and look at what the sales levels are.
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Old 10th June 2013, 17:33   #12
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

With this Rajiv Bajaj has finally become a member of the Bombay Club.
Rahul Bajaj sure must be smiling !!!
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Old 10th June 2013, 17:42   #13
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The context was about blaming the manufacturer, not if an auto was the same as a BMW. The big companies spend R&D on safety, Tata or Maruti do not come to mind when I think of safety. I can safely say that the majority of products sold by either of these companies come without any modern safety kit.

There is no reason to believe these contraptions will crowd out our roads, the Nano was supposed to do the same and look at what the sales levels are.
I dont know if you know your car companies my friend. Both Tata and Maruti have produced safe cars, crash tested ones and filled with safety features including abd/ebs. Some cars have Euro spec crash ratings too, so they are as good or as bad compared to other car makers.

Even a basic car with crumple zones (read Nano/Maruti Alto) and basic seat belts, hydraulic breaks with disc breaks on the front wheels, will save a person inside if he/she is belted up. Can a Bajaj rickshaw ever hope to do the same? That should answer why I have reservations on the auto and jugadu opportunistic industrialists.
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Old 10th June 2013, 17:53   #14
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

This from a company and guy who killed a product because it used twin spark technology. Of course TVS won the case later, but the damage was done. Flame was huge loss for TVS.

And yes, comparing your product with BMW and Mercs, less said the better.
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Old 10th June 2013, 18:17   #15
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Default Re: Rajiv Bajaj lashes out at Tata and Maruti for opposing quadricycles

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I dont know if you know your car companies my friend. Both Tata and Maruti have produced safe cars, crash tested ones and filled with safety features including abd/ebs. Some cars have Euro spec crash ratings too, so they are as good or as bad compared to other car makers.

Even a basic car with crumple zones (read Nano/Maruti Alto) and basic seat belts, hydraulic breaks with disc breaks on the front wheels, will save a person inside if he/she is belted up. Can a Bajaj rickshaw ever hope to do the same? That should answer why I have reservations on the auto and jugadu opportunistic industrialists.
Yes I do, having had the Sumo which is still sold in the same version we go a decade ago. I said the majority of cars sold come without any safety features, nothing about certain export versions meeting minimum safety standards in overseas markets.

I agree with the breaking part about the Nano/Alto which is why I said their cars are not the last word in safety.

The quadricycle is just another category which will be more of an auto alternative than anything aspirational. Autos won't hold up in a high speed crash and they are not meant to, neither does a premium hatch if pushed to its top speed. Safety add ons work at a specified speed anything else is just luck. The only thing that can dissuade this kind of product is a higher insurance premium and a lower payout in case of a claim.
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