Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd October 2013, 19:40   #121
BHPian
 
heysac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 91
Thanked: 13 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Interesting article on City rendering based on Honda Concept C by a Brazilian site: http://indianautosblog.com/2013/04/r...oncept-c-71851
heysac is offline  
Old 22nd October 2013, 20:10   #122
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: bangalore
Posts: 170
Thanked: 86 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
And you know this how? Or is it an educated guess? I personally think, positioning the Jazz will be a much harder task for Honda than the City, especially with the Amaze and Mobilio. A new diesel City is a much easier sell.

If you've followed this thread, Autocar reported earlier this year that Honda has moved forward the launch of the City because the current model cannot take the diesel engine. The Business Standard reported earlier this month in an interview with Jnaneswar Sen that the City will be shown in Japan in November and then will come to India (early 2014). I have heard from people who have spoken to Sen that Honda is trying for a late 2013 India launch. Two people on this forum have reported that their colleagues have seen the car at the factory in Greater Noida. Dealers have stopped taking fresh bookings and are emptying out stock yards. All this indicates it is coming first and soon.
Well its just my guess.

Honda had to discontinue the Jazz and civic to make production space for the Amaze and New localized CRV.So if they launch a diesel City with with the same production capacity ,then the waiting period will again go into 1 year+ .It already happened with the Jazz due to thai floods/japan tsunami) and its also due to the fact that they deliberately limited the Jazz production and prioritized on Brio bookings .The waiting list for Jazz even a month or so before it was discontinued was around 3+months minimum .

So unless they significantly increase the production capacity ,I don't think honda is ready to launch the New City.Even now they have stopped taking booking for the city,this is due to the fact that they are prioritizing the bookings of the Amaze and they simply don't have the production capacity for all products.
aim120 is offline  
Old 22nd October 2013, 22:28   #123
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: bangalore
Posts: 147
Thanked: 51 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
So unless they significantly increase the production capacity ,I don't think honda is ready to launch the New City.Even now they have stopped taking booking for the city,this is due to the fact that they are prioritizing the bookings of the Amaze and they simply don't have the production capacity for all products.
I don't agree. It is true that amaze is doing great. But I don't think that Honda will kill city for months as city is the reason for Honda's success in India and people still love this car.
ambadan is offline  
Old 22nd October 2013, 23:32   #124
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Well its just my guess.

Honda had to discontinue the Jazz and civic to make production space for the Amaze and New localized CRV.So if they launch a diesel City with with the same production capacity ,then the waiting period will again go into 1 year+ .It already happened with the Jazz due to thai floods/japan tsunami) and its also due to the fact that they deliberately limited the Jazz production and prioritized on Brio bookings .The waiting list for Jazz even a month or so before it was discontinued was around 3+months minimum .

So unless they significantly increase the production capacity ,I don't think honda is ready to launch the New City.Even now they have stopped taking booking for the city,this is due to the fact that they are prioritizing the bookings of the Amaze and they simply don't have the production capacity for all products.
Your argument completely disregards demand. The Civic (towards the end of its life) and Jazz were poor sellers. No company will limit production of hit products. The Jazz started to move some numbers after the massive price cuts on it. That helped sell cars in stock yards but Honda wasn't making its 20% margin on it.

Also Honda doesn't have production constraints any more. They have an entire new factory available to them at Takapura in Rajasthan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambadan View Post
I don't agree. It is true that amaze is doing great. But I don't think that Honda will kill city for months as city is the reason for Honda's success in India and people still love this car.
I agree and that's why the City is more critical to them than the Jazz.
StarScream is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 00:46   #125
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: bangalore
Posts: 170
Thanked: 86 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

City being based on the Jazz platform will have lower margins then the Diesel Amaze.Honda like other manufactures are milking the diesel crowd.

Honda has a monthly production capacity of 10000 vehicles.
The new City no doubt will see a big demand considering its comes in diesel version,but Honda just doesn't have the production capacity yet.

Honda in April did announce the new factory in Rajasthan,but it will be ready only in 2014.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-000-cars.html (Honda to double its annual production capacity to 240,000 cars)

Regarding Civic it was poor seller but the same cannot be said for the Jazz its still low compared to say a I20 or Swift but considering it was only offered in Petrol its sales was higher compared to other petrol version of hatches like the Micra/Pulse,Punto,Polo,Figo,Etios.
Like i said Jazz had demand even till the time it was discontinued it always had a minimum waiting period of 3 to 4 months,yet honda limited its production capacity.Yes Honda did have low margins after all the Jazz is priced higher then City internationally.

Last edited by aim120 : 23rd October 2013 at 00:52.
aim120 is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 09:43   #126
BHPian
 
avisidhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 618
Thanked: 456 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by heysac View Post
Interesting article on City rendering based on Honda Concept C by a Brazilian site: http://indianautosblog.com/2013/04/r...oncept-c-71851
When the current iteration of Verna was launched, everyone was saying how Hyundai has shamelessly copied the design from the City. My friends even reffered to it jokingly as the Honda Verna.

And now it seems Honda wants to return the favour by copying those silly curves from Hyundai
avisidhu is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 23rd October 2013, 09:44   #127
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,162
Thanked: 3,757 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

I heard that the Jazz being on the City platform was losing money, after the price cut!
sgiitk is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 11:00   #128
BHPian
 
heysac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 91
Thanked: 13 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
City being based on the Jazz platform will have lower margins then the Diesel Amaze.
City will also be priced at a premium so it is incorrect to say it will have lower margins

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Honda in April did announce the new factory in Rajasthan,but it will be ready only in 2014.
The new factory in Rajasthan will be ready by the year-end and City/Jazz/Mobilio will only be launched after that

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Jazz is priced higher then City internationally.
Can you please give an example to support this?
heysac is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 12:41   #129
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
City being based on the Jazz platform will have lower margins then the Diesel Amaze.Honda like other manufactures are milking the diesel crowd.

Honda has a monthly production capacity of 10000 vehicles.
The new City no doubt will see a big demand considering its comes in diesel version,but Honda just doesn't have the production capacity yet.

Honda in April did announce the new factory in Rajasthan,but it will be ready only in 2014.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-000-cars.html (Honda to double its annual production capacity to 240,000 cars)

Regarding Civic it was poor seller but the same cannot be said for the Jazz its still low compared to say a I20 or Swift but considering it was only offered in Petrol its sales was higher compared to other petrol version of hatches like the Micra/Pulse,Punto,Polo,Figo,Etios.
Like i said Jazz had demand even till the time it was discontinued it always had a minimum waiting period of 3 to 4 months,yet honda limited its production capacity.Yes Honda did have low margins after all the Jazz is priced higher then City internationally.
How do you know the City diesel will have lower margins than the Amaze? Honda aims for a margin of 20% on every car it sells. In fact it becomes easier to command/earn that margin as you move up the product range.

Honda did not announce the Rajasthan facility in April. They announced fresh investment in April. It started in 2008, making power train parts -
http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/27/stor...2755801400.htm

It starts making cars early next year, which ties in with the launch of the City and Mobilio -
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2100890_1.html

We seem to be going around in circles about the Jazz. It had demand after the price cut but they were losing money on it and hence limited production and eventually discontinued the vehicle - that in no way can be termed a success. The Jazz cost Honda more to make than the City because of reinforcements required to the rear hatch in the event of a hit from the back. Yet, in India, they couldn't command that premium.
StarScream is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 14:22   #130
BHPian
 
sawnilrules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 345
Thanked: 785 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

As per my discussion with guys from Honda, the New City is already at the Gurgaon Plant. There are 2 variants of the car, 1 with Petrol Motor and 1 with Diesel Motor. The power for the Petrol Pod is gone up from 118 to 124 and diesel to have 120 PS engine, same power plant that is doing duty on the Amaze, albeit with bigger output

Dimension-ally, the new car is wider and longer than its outgoing version, and expect the car to be costlier than the current one. The Current City is already being phased out, & the production for the car has been stopped effective 1st October 2013. All AT transmission City were shelved off in the month of September itself.

Dealers have been ordered to clear the stocks, therefore they are only taking orders of those cars/models which they have in stock. In-fact, this is the very same reason, at Mumbai APS which just concluded last Sunday, Honda displayed the entire range of their cars, Sans the City.

The New City will hit the showrooms on 24th December 2013, price-list to be available by First week of January, and the deliveries to start by March 2014.
sawnilrules is offline   (13) Thanks
Old 23rd October 2013, 15:08   #131
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawnilrules View Post
As per my discussion with guys from Honda, the New City is already at the Gurgaon Plant. There are 2 variants of the car, 1 with Petrol Motor and 1 with Diesel Motor. The power for the Petrol Pod is gone up from 118 to 124 and diesel to have 120 PS engine, same power plant that is doing duty on the Amaze, albeit with bigger output

Dimension-ally, the new car is wider and longer than its outgoing version, and expect the car to be costlier than the current one. The Current City is already being phased out, & the production for the car has been stopped effective 1st October 2013. All AT transmission City were shelved off in the month of September itself.

Dealers have been ordered to clear the stocks, therefore they are only taking orders of those cars/models which they have in stock. In-fact, this is the very same reason, at Mumbai APS which just concluded last Sunday, Honda displayed the entire range of their cars, Sans the City.

The New City will hit the showrooms on 24th December 2013, price-list to be available by First week of January, and the deliveries to start by March 2014.
Great info, thanks. 124 ps petrol, indicates its the twin-cam, direct injection, i-VTEC Earth Dreams 1.5 liter engine (detuned a little, as usual, for India):
http://paultan.org/2012/11/16/honda-...cr-z-facelift/

Last edited by StarScream : 23rd October 2013 at 15:11.
StarScream is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 15:24   #132
BHPian
 
rrsteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 144022
Posts: 940
Thanked: 893 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawnilrules View Post
As per my discussion with guys from Honda, the New City is already at the Gurgaon Plant. There are 2 variants of the car, 1 with Petrol Motor and 1 with Diesel Motor. The power for the Petrol Pod is gone up from 118 to 124 and diesel to have 120 PS engine, same power plant that is doing duty on the Amaze, albeit with bigger output

Dimension-ally, the new car is wider and longer than its outgoing version, and expect the car to be costlier than the current one. The Current City is already being phased out, & the production for the car has been stopped effective 1st October 2013. All AT transmission City were shelved off in the month of September itself.

Dealers have been ordered to clear the stocks, therefore they are only taking orders of those cars/models which they have in stock. In-fact, this is the very same reason, at Mumbai APS which just concluded last Sunday, Honda displayed the entire range of their cars, Sans the City.

The New City will hit the showrooms on 24th December 2013, price-list to be available by First week of January, and the deliveries to start by March 2014.
Thats more than 5 months between production of current car being stopped and deliveries of new car to start. The current City still has healthy demand, does Honda have inventory to take care of the 5 months in the interim?
rrsteer is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 15:38   #133
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Thats more than 5 months between production of current car being stopped and deliveries of new car to start. The current City still has healthy demand, does Honda have inventory to take care of the 5 months in the interim?
Technically, they just need enough stock to last them for two months till the launch in December. After that no one is going to want/buy the old car anyhow and all bookings will help build orders for the new model.

I think Honda handles such transitions very well with no deep discounting and no unsold stock.
StarScream is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 17:11   #134
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: bangalore
Posts: 170
Thanked: 86 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by heysac View Post
City will also be priced at a premium so it is incorrect to say it will have lower margins
I am talking about current city vs diesel Amaze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heysac View Post
The new factory in Rajasthan will be ready by the year-end and City/Jazz/Mobilio will only be launched after that
Lets hope so.Since high waiting periods means loosing sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heysac View Post
Can you please give an example to support this?
Just check out Honda thailand.
http://www.honda.co.th/en/jazz
http://www.honda.co.th/en/city

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
How do you know the City diesel will have lower margins than the Amaze? Honda aims for a margin of 20% on every car it sells. In fact it becomes easier to command/earn that margin as you move up the product range.

Honda did not announce the Rajasthan facility in April. They announced fresh investment in April. It started in 2008, making power train parts -
http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/27/stor...2755801400.htm

It starts making cars early next year, which ties in with the launch of the City and Mobilio -
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2100890_1.html

We seem to be going around in circles about the Jazz. It had demand after the price cut but they were losing money on it and hence limited production and eventually discontinued the vehicle - that in no way can be termed a success. The Jazz cost Honda more to make than the City because of reinforcements required to the rear hatch in the event of a hit from the back. Yet, in India, they couldn't command that premium.
I was talking about the margins of Current City (which is also based on the Jazz platform) vs a diesel Amaze.We all know that in India manufactures milk customers (more then they should )just because of the diesel tag.Hence Honda is prioritizing on Amaze diesel bookings.

I am sure the New City in diesel form will command much more premium resulting in good margins.

Not so sure Honda can launch the new city by dec 2013 ,considering its has not yet been announced.

Last edited by aim120 : 23rd October 2013 at 17:19.
aim120 is offline  
Old 23rd October 2013, 17:59   #135
BHPian
 
sawnilrules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 345
Thanked: 785 Times
Default re: Confirmed: 2014 Honda City to be unveiled in November 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Thats more than 5 months between production of current car being stopped and deliveries of new car to start. The current City still has healthy demand, does Honda have inventory to take care of the 5 months in the interim?
Following is the overall stock status in Mumbai, and I am pretty much sure, it would be same all over India

Corporate and E Version- Stock-out
AT (V or S)- Stock-out
V-AT (Sunroof)- Stock-out
V- MT (Sunroof)- Stock-out
V-AVN- limited stocks available
S- limited color choices available, except a stock-out by 2nd week of Oct)
sawnilrules is offline   (2) Thanks
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pics & Report: 2014 Honda City unveiled in India parrys The Indian Car Scene 366 17th December 2013 00:02
Honda to reveal the facelifted 2014 Civic Si in November 2013 sarathlal The International Automotive Scene 1 7th November 2013 08:19
Honda CBR500R - First Pics Leaked. EDIT - Six New Models Confirmed for 2013. Scorcher Superbikes & Imports 49 11th March 2013 00:52
10 World's Fastest Cars--polled in November 2006 and due this november VJ_MAVRICK The International Automotive Scene 0 27th August 2007 11:47
Confirmed : Skoda's New A5 launch in this November ST7677 The Indian Car Scene 78 25th November 2005 16:05


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:19.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks