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Old 25th June 2013, 17:42   #1
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Default Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Toyota has established itself in India now.

With early starts with Qualis, Innova was a product that truely showed Toyotas reliability and delibery of promised product virtues to the Indian customers.

It became the unopposed market leader in sub luxary people logistics market. Rentals, taxis, airport transportation, corporate touring is totally dominated by Innova.

This led to entry of Denso - The Toyota Spare parts wing into all of urban India and many parts of Rural India too.

Repairs and maintainance is possible in all of Urban India now and Toyota Dealerships have come up in Tier III and Tier IV Indian cities.

The customer has seen value and convenience in a product like Etios Liva and is flocking to it. Etios Liva is now drawing customers away from :

Hyundai i20
Maruti Swift & Ritz
Nissan Micra
Volkswagon Polo
Mahindra who have dared to launch a Verito hatch called something which nobody cares for !
Skoda Fabia

The sales of Etios Liva and Etios is constantly climbing in North India.

Men and Women. Airport Taxi, Fleet Operator are enjoying the virtues promised and delivered by Toyota.

Now is the time for Toyota Bharat to enter the segment 1 rung below.

It has a ready product to take on Alto K 10, Hyundai i10, Eon, or the market that Nissan Datsun is planning, Cevorlet Spark is also a player her.

For the Sub - Rs. 400,000 market Toyota does have a ready product the Toyota - AYGO.

It has a RHD version of this as well for the UK market, and it is available in 3 Cylinder 1000 cc engine and even a 1.4 L Diesel.

The market is clearly ready for the taking. Wonder what Toyota Bharat is thinking in terms of expansion to its Banglore plant.
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Old 25th June 2013, 17:47   #2
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

We saw what quality Toyota can make when its about mass production. A sub 4 lac car from them would be interesting; an undoing of the brand quality they made all these years if the quality goes below Etios/Liva.
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Old 25th June 2013, 18:12   #3
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Different product for different markets.

A Yaaris - Etios Liva class vehicle is from a different grade of sheet metal in Europe than what is produced in Indonesia / Thailand and similarly trim levels.

If there is a very high tax structure prevailing, the car will overshoot the price band target.

Look at Yaaris generation three, new console, great trim levels, excellent audio systems, 9 airbags, ABS, traction control.

Once Atios and Liva achieve targeted numbers and in India the customer is ready for more and A/T version with the established brand equity of Etios will come featuring everything there is in the Yaaris now.

The AYGO sells for about 6.5 lakhs in England right now.

The diesel AYGO will have to sell in India more like Rs. 390,000 obviously it will be introduced at lower trim levels and there will be cuts everywhere. But it will be a product for the intended market and for products it is competing with.

Maruti or Hyundai are not going to up the trim level or product features.

AYGO manufactured in India will be exported to many countries in the region.

It may not be called AYGO in India, it might be a different name sounding an easy to recall Pan asian ring, but I hope it is coming. Sandeep Singh are you listening.
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Old 25th June 2013, 18:36   #4
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Certainly not.
Etios might be good, but is not the best out there, something we can say about Innova (dynamics, comfort, ride and space) or Fortuner, or even Camry for that matter.

My daily drive is Balneo, a car which is often compared with Etios. I dont know how the two cars can be compared. I had a TD of Etios and Baleno felt like dream. Smoother and more free revving motor, better ride, better AC, better decals and what not. The plastics were not much different.

Etios is just about moderate success rather than a hit. Liva and Etios are certainly overpriced as compared to the accomplisments they achieve. Ford Fiesta Classic has a better build, even Dzire seems less build to cost. Some small cars offer better interiors, and many cars have better sound insulation than what the Etios/Liva have to offer.

I agree with the high taxes part, but somehow, the price is not justified by the product displayed on showroom floor. And why that centrally mounted instrument cluster ?

All the above points more of less point towards any product with cheaper price from Toyota would certainly not be as per the international standards they have.

PS: Our April 2012 Innova with just 13K kms. already has front beading torn. The car is used by my father and daily runs from home to his office and office to home. Always parked well, and few times ventured out on highway. So I have really starting to doubt Toyota quality now. Call me paranoid ( or the one with a lot of expectations from Toyota ) but I will not put down my money for a Toyota without much deliberation.
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Old 25th June 2013, 18:52   #5
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Saw an article on the "Confidential" section of ACI,that Toyota is not interested in a model below 4L & will not enter that space,as they have already burnt their hands on the Etios/Liva.
Also saw this artice on indiancarsbikes.in:-

Quote:
This announcement is consonant with Toyota’s global chairman, Akio Toyoda, asserting a few days ago, that the Japanese automaker would go back to its root of high quality and innovation, and will not look at entering the low cost car market, even with a sub brand. In other words, Toyota will not enter the sub 4 lakh rupee car segment, and will stick to the high quality levels its products have always been known for.
http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/cars/t...os-cars-57925/

Regards,
Varun
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Old 25th June 2013, 19:55   #6
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Different product for different markets.

A Yaaris - Etios Liva class vehicle is from a different grade of sheet metal in Europe than what is produced in Indonesia / Thailand and similarly trim levels.

Look at Yaaris generation three, new console, great trim levels, excellent audio systems, 9 airbags, ABS, traction control.

Once Atios and Liva achieve targeted numbers and in India the customer is ready for more and A/T version with the established brand equity of Etios will come featuring everything there is in the Yaaris now.

The AYGO sells for about 6.5 lakhs in England right now.

The diesel AYGO will have to sell in India more like Rs. 390,000 obviously it will be introduced at lower trim levels and there will be cuts everywhere. But it will be a product for the intended market and for products it is competing with.

Maruti or Hyundai are not going to up the trim level or product features.

AYGO manufactured in India will be exported to many countries in the region.

It may not be called AYGO in India, it might be a different name sounding an easy to recall Pan asian ring, but I hope it is coming. Sandeep Singh are you listening.
Different product for different markets! And the Toyota think-tank thought that something like the Yaris /Vios is not meant for India, and came up with India specific Etios/Liva which is actually in the grade (or lower) of first generation Vios.

The Aygo (CitroŽn C1 / Peugeot 107) is indeed a good option as an entry level small hatchback, but I am quite sure that Toyota (if they have plans to enter the entry level hatchback segment) will come up with a heavily compromised India specific car.

Infact couple of years back Mr. Sandeep Singh mentioned that the expensive Yaris is not meant for India. More information in the thread below:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2410689 (After Etios Liva, Toyota to develop two more small cars for India)
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Old 25th June 2013, 20:11   #7
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Already their 8 lakh offerings look like sub-4 lakh. Cant even imagine what will they offer at 4 lakh. An auto rikshaw with Toyota badge ? and yes, it will be very reliable and obviously loved by cabbies too.

They should be like Hyundai. Playing in the premium end of various segments, numbers might be less but they keep their magins healthy
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Old 25th June 2013, 21:11   #8
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

Even though am a big die hard fan of the T, except for their UVs and to an extent Corolla, Toyota hasn't got the Indian market right. The Etios twins both of them are good, but at the price point, look at Brio and Amaze. Agreed the Amaze is sub 4m, but still look at the level of quality. The basics are good, but the Etios twins still have to deliver a little bit more on the interior and quality front.

And regarding sub 4lac segment, other than the existing players and Datsun in the future no one will enter it, not certainly Toyota who thinks that they got a level of premiumness to protect in India. And i don't think either Aygo or Yaris can be priced below 7lacs. Even in Saudi Arabia the Yaris hatchback starts from 9lacs.

Ignoring the current hot segments -I mean c'mon look at the current hottest segments.The mini SUV/MUV segments. Toyota has ready products in the Rush and Avanza respectively. If they can plonk in a diesel engine in a Corolla, they can surely plonk the same engine the Avanza and Rush. Will bring in the volumes without hurting the image.

No diesel cars -And about them lacking diesel cars, then what are the European Auris and Avensis having? Toyota can single handedly end the rule of VW/Skoda in the D1.D2 segments.
Sure, the NRIs like me will rue the absence of Corolla/Camry numberplates , but hey this is business or they can rebadge for India.

CV business dirty? -And bring on the CVs, even if at a premium there are businesses willing to buy them.
Looking at Isuzu, they can even import the Hilux from Thailand without paying import duties. "No sir, no it will hurt their premiumness"

Toyota don't just ignore us cause you entered Thailand nearby decades ago and we opened up only recently.

P.s- regarding sub 4lacs, does Toyota still sell WagonR style kei cars in JDM??
If so they can bring some in and put the Liva 1.2 engine in it.

Last edited by DicKy : 25th June 2013 at 21:12.
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Old 26th June 2013, 11:27   #9
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Default re: Toyota India - Time to enter the sub-4 Lakh segment?

We all studied Shakesperare at school. Some at college as well. A smart man develops the ability to read between the lines.

In the corporate world, statements and strategy change with the times otherwise you become something like Hindustan Motors or Standard Herald.

For success you arrive, you see and you conquer. Every market has its own dynamics.

India is not where it should have been in the automotive sector because of bad policy decisions. A socialist restrictive regime in the 60s to 80s phase, Sanjay Gandhi pushed Maruti as the sole operator till early 90s. Give a Contessa, Standard 2000 Rover or a NE118 here and there.

The market did not permit entry of the quality players for a long time.

Toyota came early with the Qualis. A lot of the present players are more recent arrivals.

India is not ready for the Yaaris - why ?
A hatch in the Swift class that Liva is , be it a Yaaris hatch 5 door, will all the refinements and gizmos in there will sell in India for close to 9 lakhs.

Will anyone buy it ? Indians will rebel.

You have to build a market. Etios and Liva will achieve and exceed sales targets in 2014 and 2015, this will give Toyota the confidance to ender the higher end hatch and more refinements.

Honda - A Brio is a nice car but not designed for Indian speed breakers, this is the basic issue with Honda City, Amaze and a lot of the lineup.

In being India specific, Toyota have addressed this, the Etios smoothly sails over the speed humps where a Honda City scratches.

Dont worry about what Sandeep Singh said. Once the numbers games and further investments into plant expansion start, he will be replaced by a Jap, who believe me would have researched India more than Indians and will lead the Toyota Quality revolution. This is the way of the Japanese, look what they have done to US and EU car makers.
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