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Old 17th August 2013, 18:51   #106
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
I do not want to continue this discussion endlessly so this will be the last time I will say something about the racing ability of the Nano. Narain is a talented driver so he can race a Nano perhaps.

But for very ordinary mortals like me taking a bend which is quite sharp at a speed of more than 40 kmph in a Nano is pretty unnerving. My heart goes faster than the car at such moments. And it really is not worth the trouble.
I agree, we are on different wave lengths, so discussion will remain pointless.

I do however want to stress for the benefit any other reader of this thread that I do not do, or support in any way any kind of racing on public roads in ANY car, however capable, at any time of the day/night, by anybody. Racing is for race tracks only, under controlled conditions, where there is no risk imposed on third parties. I am sure that Team BHP members as a class also would observe this discipline. I see enough idiots treat the highway/e way/city roads at night as race tracks, and most of them seem to be in decent cars, and look well educated. And the problem is that most modern Indian cars have power far more than the capability of these idiots to master that power. The public taxi drivers - as opposed to tourist taxi ones - as a class, are far safer drivers.
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Old 3rd October 2013, 20:21   #107
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

Nano racing series will be fun but I don't think it will do anything to spruce up the car's image & the Etios racing program is a great example to demonstrate that.
Racing has very low visibility/following in India.

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Today Big Bazaar and Saravana Stores are minting money, just because of the fact that they are cheaper. They are proud to claim they are cheaper and it shows their financial soundness.
Not an apples to apples comparison....you're comparing retailer to product. Even if you have a less-than-premium shopping experience with BigBazaar, its soon forgotten but you have to live with the product & its associated image for many years.

Last edited by Mpower : 3rd October 2013 at 21:32.
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Old 4th October 2013, 00:17   #108
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I dont think it is fair to compare the kind of products that Sarvana or Big Bazar is selling to a car.

A car remains a possesion of the higher class in India. Even an Alto is considered "luxury"......
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
....Not an apples to apples comparison....you're comparing retailer to product. Even if you have a less-than-premium shopping experience with BigBazaar, its soon forgotten but you have to live with the product & its associated image for many years.
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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Of the 3Ps in marketing, one needs to understand the dynamics of the first P - 'product', which is different for different products. This is rightly pointed out in the post below..
I agree to all your points. But I still stand by my words.
I am very much aware of the 3P's in marketing and the like to like comparison on products.
Let me put things in a different manner:
Its very logical for a common man to associate quality with cost. When he pays rock bottom price, he always expects a limited quality only - means how much the product deserves for the money he paid.
With this, if he sees minor failures , he concludes - I have paid less and so is the quality. But when the severity increases wrt safety, he assumes that its purely do to inferior material, as the product price itself is very less. This type of feeling does'nt require any big science logic but a simple logical mind.

Being a mechanical engineer I have wondered in and out on the aggregates design and development - right from 3 wheel bolt arrangement to use of simpler and economical door hinges to even elimination of separate hatch in the bonnet for fuel filling. Unarguably the cutest made car ever, especially in a view from side and most importantly ~16% more car (more interior space) than the cheapest available car, 800. With all this wonders and great pride I still represent Nano as one of best cars for frugal engineering in any forums.

Keeping all these aside, I still think the reason for low sales is, due to safety issues cropped up in much early days. Though one can argue that its not common that manufacturer to make mistake - Why compare a 50L car, even Airbus 380 worth 400 million USD has failures. But that's viewed different and it would have not been a same case, when Air bus have made an air craft touting to be cheapest ever made.
Here with Nano, as always market doesn't give any second chance and same was the case.

I will still wait for the glory days to see a the sale of Nano touching consistent 20k mark in near future with new variants.
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Old 4th October 2013, 00:28   #109
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

Hmm...so was Nano selling like hot cakes before the fire incidents? Did they start plummeting after that?

To get a sure shot answer one has to go around visiting used car dealers and ask customers shopping for a used car in the 1.5-2L range and ask the question... 'why are you not buying the Nano instead?'
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Old 4th October 2013, 10:53   #110
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Its very logical for a common man to associate quality with cost. When he pays rock bottom price, he always expects a limited quality only - means how much the product deserves for the money he paid.
With this, if he sees minor failures , he concludes - I have paid less and so is the quality.
I agree with your reasoning above. But I don't think the earlier reported fire incidents triggered this reasoning in the minds of car buying public, in the first place. I think it would be inherently associated to an entry level very cheap and basic car. The fire incidents must have of course brought even more focus to such a line of thought.

Nano is such an intriguing case in so many ways. I sometimes wonder how it would have been received, had it been a Maruti Nano or a Toyota Nano? Because a Maruti or a Toyota prefix, on an average, does tend to negate the feeling of low quality.
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Old 4th October 2013, 11:08   #111
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

I do see a high official in my office happily arrive for work in his Nano and park it in his reserved slot, without any qualms! When I politely enquired about the car he seemed happy with it, for the price he had paid!

If it was a BMW Nano priced a couple of million rupees, it might have sold more.

I too feel they over did the low cost thing. Instead of "inexpensive", they ended up creating a "cheap" impression.

Remember, in our country a car, however humble, is a status symbol. Nobody wants to associate themselves with a poor man's car, I suppose - unless it is a second or third car in their stable.

The gentleman I mentioned earlier is a case in point; he has a million and a half rupee car as well!
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Old 4th October 2013, 11:27   #112
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
If it was a BMW Nano priced a couple of million rupees, it might have sold more.
It is not necessary that the BMW Nano would have been a success, after all Aston Martin have pulled pug on the Cygnet off late.

However, I agree with all you points & observations regarding the image created for the car at he time of launch. Instead of cheap they should have used the tag line (as you have suggested) - "inexpensive to own & run (25 kmpl )".

Just to update the forum, the CNG Nano - eMax should be launched in Oct-13 (current month) as per Financial Express article:

http://www.financialexpress.com/news...-delay/1176001

With 32 Liter CNG tank (good for ~4.5 kg CNG in routine), apart from 15 Liter Petrol tank the Nano CNG is theoretically capable of 500+ km drive on a one time refuel (of both fuels).

More details (courtesy Motoroids):

Quote:
The Nano emax CNG variant will boast of a 32-liter CNG tank and has an ARAI certified fuel efficiency of 36km/kg. Tata claims that the car has a CO2 emission of just 75g/km, which makes the Nano CNG among the cleanest cars on Indian roads. The upcoming Tata Nano emax CNG will be sold with a 4-year/60,000km warranty.
IMO this will help sell few hundred Nanos more.
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Old 4th October 2013, 11:38   #113
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I do see a high official in my office happily arrive for work in his Nano and park it in his reserved slot, without any qualms! When I politely enquired about the car he seemed happy with it, for the price he had paid!

If it was a BMW Nano priced a couple of million rupees, it might have sold more.

I too feel they over did the low cost thing. Instead of "inexpensive", they ended up creating a "cheap" impression.

Remember, in our country a car, however humble, is a status symbol. Nobody wants to associate themselves with a poor man's car, I suppose - unless it is a second or third car in their stable.

The gentleman I mentioned earlier is a case in point; he has a million and a half rupee car as well!
And also, we're not an America where credit is available easily to buy a car. While this is good in many ways, cars like the Nano get impacted the most. The local store-keeper, electrician, etc, make enough money to afford a Nano, but the unorganized nature of their occupation means that they can't submit the requisite proofs to buy the Nano through the much-touted EMI schemes. So, it's a case of the two wheeler owners sticking to their rides due to the lack-of-easy-credit bottleneck. So, we're back to square one. People who have bigger cars buy the Nano as their daily city runabouts and these people have great access to credit, and even the "credit card". Why else did Tata Motors launching "buy a Nano with your Credit Card" gimmicks?

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 4th October 2013, 16:42   #114
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Hmm...so was Nano selling like hot cakes before the fire incidents? Did they start plummeting after that? ...
Obviously yes. There was phenomenon response even to just see the car first at AutoExpo 2008 as well.

Quote:
Tata's Nano, the biggest attraction at Auto Expo '08

It is a record for the Auto Expo. On Saturday, it was 160,000 and by 12 pm the figure hit the 180,000-mark just within 2 hours
..And it continued to book the car..
Sales of 50k booking forms in just 3 days,
Quote:
Tata Motors sells over 51,000 Nano booking forms in three days

A nation can barely hold its excitement, as it waits to bring the baby home. Tata Motors dealers alone have sold over 51,000 forms for the Nano in just five days
2lk confirmed booking in another couple of weeks. And 50% of them being for higher end.
Quote:
Tata Nano gets 2.03 lakh fully paid bookings

The Tata Nano has found 200,000 customers in its first booking schedule, and half of them have opted for the top end version....
Quote:
Tata's Nano Sales On Fire

Tata's Nano, the $2,500 car, is a hit in India, with the company booking 203,000 pre-orders, Bloomberg reports
Quote:
Tata Nano: 200,000 Orders and a Waiting List Through 2011


Get ready to wait if you want to buy a Tata Nano, the Indian-built $2,000 four-door billed as "the world's cheapest car."
Right from day one, it's known as the cheapest car in world. Then why should they go for booking? Did they came to know the status associated with buying a cheapest car very late? And with 50% of them being booking a higher end, it actually says that they are not bothered about the so called cheap image. And not to mention about the number of second car owners who booked it. And why this momentum didn't actually kept going?
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Old 4th October 2013, 22:03   #115
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

Here's my personal opinion as a owner and user of a Nano.

Let me start with what's good about the Nano:
- Driveability in the city is unbeatable. The short length and small turning circle help squeeze through gaps and find parking easily. The Nano is in its element in the city!

- Maintenance costs are low. I have the Gold AMC package so it's cheap to own for the first 3 years. But I've a good idea of parts and labour prices and the Nano is definitely the cheapest car to own.

- Fuel consumption is low. My Nano is only driven around the city centre mostly during peak hours with the A/C on and I get 15 km/l. Don't be shocked at the big difference between what I'm getting and what other Nano owners are reporting. In the same conditions an Alto would only get around 13 km/l.

- The cabin space is great! First time passengers are shocked by the amount of space.

- It's actually fun to drive!

What's not to like:
- The low price is reflected in the lack of refinement. I hate that the car sounds like a diesel autorickshaw! Many ignorant people have asked me if it runs on diesel. The vibration and heat of the engine are also noticeable. The heat, particularly to rear seat passengers.

- The lack of practicality. The passenger space may be great but the complete lack of storage space is a big put-off. A glovebox wasn't even an option until recently. The are no small bins and pockets for change and parking tickets. Access to the boot is so impractical as to make it useless. There are no bottle holders of any type. Bottles rolling about are dangerous.

- Anyone who drives probably also needs to charge their mobile phone. But there are accessory power points. Not even optional. Tata ASC won't install an aftermarket one after all the fire incidents.

- Opening the bonnet to refuel just looks wrong. An external, lockable cap could have been designed to look good and be cheap to make.

I don't regret buying the Nano and I would definitely buy one again. But as a product it's at risk of becoming irrelevant. It's an urban car but doesn't really meet the expectations of an urban user. The small things like storage and mobile phone chargers really do matter but Tata doesn't seem to understand it.
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Old 7th October 2013, 19:23   #116
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Obviously yes. There was phenomenon response even to just see the car first at AutoExpo 2008 as well.
Obviously, the phenomenal initial response (& sales) was due to the pent up demand from those who were impressed by the car and had been waiting for launch.
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Old 7th October 2013, 19:51   #117
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by Motard_Blr View Post
Here's my personal opinion as a owner and user of a Nano.

...............


What's not to like:
- The low price is reflected in the lack of refinement. I hate that the car sounds like a diesel autorickshaw! Many ignorant people have asked me if it runs on diesel. The vibration and heat of the engine are also noticeable. The heat, particularly to rear seat passengers.

- The lack of practicality. The passenger space may be great but the complete lack of storage space is a big put-off. A glovebox wasn't even an option until recently. The are no small bins and pockets for change and parking tickets. Access to the boot is so impractical as to make it useless. There are no bottle holders of any type. Bottles rolling about are dangerous.

- Anyone who drives probably also needs to charge their mobile phone. But there are accessory power points. Not even optional. Tata ASC won't install an aftermarket one after all the fire incidents.

- Opening the bonnet to refuel just looks wrong. An external, lockable cap could have been designed to look good and be cheap to make.

I don't regret buying the Nano and I would definitely buy one again. But as a product it's at risk of becoming irrelevant. It's an urban car but doesn't really meet the expectations of an urban user. The small things like storage and mobile phone chargers really do matter but Tata doesn't seem to understand it.
It seems you have one of the early Nanos. So I guess a few of the things you dont like have already been addressed by Tata. Refinement and heat shielding has been improved. Practicality has also been improved with a few places to keep the small knick-knacks have been added, like magazine pockets, cup/bottle holders/gloveboxes. 12V charging point is also now available with the top two variants.

The package in my view could be completed by adding an open-able rear hatch, and a fuel lid opening.
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Old 7th October 2013, 19:58   #118
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Obviously, the phenomenal initial response (& sales) was due to the pent up demand from those who were impressed by the car and had been waiting for launch.
You get my point.
Now that expectation includes a clear understanding on the image it has created "cheapest car in the world". If that's the case, why should the sales decline further or rather drastically after some few months of launch?
I do agree that it had image problem, but if the product were without any issues, the sales momentum should have continued.

Plz note that I am just proposing a different view to the reduced sales and not trying to prove that I am right.
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Old 8th October 2013, 08:46   #119
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
It seems you have one of the early Nanos. So I guess a few of the things you dont like have already been addressed by Tata. Refinement and heat shielding has been improved. Practicality has also been improved with a few places to keep the small knick-knacks have been added, like magazine pockets, cup/bottle holders/gloveboxes. 12V charging point is also now available with the top two variants.

The package in my view could be completed by adding an open-able rear hatch, and a fuel lid opening.
Mine is an April 2011 Nano CX. I have driven the 2012 Nano and seen the 2013 Nano and I agree that some of the issues I brought have been addressed. I should have mentioned them before. I like the new glove boxes with their colour matched with the car. The power socket is definitely a plus point. But the biggest issue, in my opinion, that is still not addressed is refinement. It's still a noisy car and engine vibrations are still quite strong. There is no balancer shaft in the engine so not much can be done about it. The heavy steering at very low speeds, though better since 2012, is still a negative.

In my opinion, the benchmark for car in this class will be for a long time the Maruti 800. It's no longer sold but there are so many around and was priced similarly to the Nano.
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Old 28th October 2013, 19:40   #120
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Default Re: Tata Nano - Will it ever sell in vast numbers?

Tata needs to make the Nano similar to the UP! range from VW. The UP! is a good 25% cheaper than the Polo (the next smallest car VW makes) and is clearly built to a cost, but the car clearly doesn't feel 'cheap'...

I am not sure if the current Nano can be re-engineered to make it feel less 'cheap'
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